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      07-06-2015, 11:35 AM   #1
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Future BMW M's to be serious and all grown up just at the time Porsche has gone manual on the GT4 and got rave reviews. M cars need to be a bit wild.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...ars-not-bright" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.autocar.c...not-bright</a>
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      07-06-2015, 12:30 PM   #2
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Think for a sec on the real reason why the GT4 has a manual...other than being a "driver's car".
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      07-06-2015, 02:12 PM   #3
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Also the article doesn't say there will be no manuals just that customers don't seem to be requesting them.

Totally agree on the GT4, Porsche didn't want the car to be faster than it already is.
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      07-06-2015, 02:44 PM   #4
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M2 Gets a manual and as option the DCT like the M4


It s a manual for me!
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      07-06-2015, 03:15 PM   #5
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This "Autocar" link works.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...ars-not-bright

I've been a manual guy forever... I'll likely be ordering a DCT on my M2... I love the quickness of and ability to adjust the smoothness of the shifts with the BMW DCTs.
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      07-06-2015, 04:25 PM   #6
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I've been a manual guy since the 80's but i absolutely love BMW's DCT. If BMW could make a manual like the boys at Porsche I'd still be driving a manual.
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      07-06-2015, 04:36 PM   #7
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Have had manuals most of these many years; and am weary of those who would define an "enthusiast" by having a MT in a BMW. Hear it all the time at chapter meetings.

That's like saying if you are a real BBQ enthusiast you will only eat beef ribs from Texas.

It's a DCT for me as well...smooth, quick and a lot less effort in traffic. And then there are those back roads for shifting out of corners. They won't do away with MT's...but they might some day become the premium option for which to pay. Now that would be a reversal for sure.

Glad we can have both options...bring the DCT on BMW--a lot of us welcome that great little box.
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      07-06-2015, 05:09 PM   #8
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I think some are misreading the message from the boss man. He said manuals will still be around.

I love the DCT, but I still prefer a third pedal. As I get older, I'm sure the DCT will become more of a must have.
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      07-06-2015, 05:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twix View Post
I think some are misreading the message from the boss man. He said manuals will still be around.

I love the DCT, but I still prefer a third pedal. As I get older, I'm sure the DCT will become more of a must have.
Same here. Have always had one manual and one auto in the stable. I even ran out and bought GTI with dual-clutch gearbox when it first came out, before BMW. Early adopter, but no many how many times I try to buy one, or drive auto loaner and test drive DCTs because that is the only thing available, it is not as fun for me as a manual. I also used to play guitar and I find the shifting a little like strumming a guitar and tapping my feet. It makes me feel connected to the machine in a way, the automatic doesn't. Even hitting the paddle, the shifts are so fast that they area out of rhythm but with a proper manual, you maintain the rhythm and it feels great.
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      07-06-2015, 07:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Same here. Have always had one manual and one auto in the stable. I even ran out and bought GTI with dual-clutch gearbox when it first came out, before BMW. Early adopter, but no many how many times I try to buy one, or drive auto loaner and test drive DCTs because that is the only thing available, it is not as fun for me as a manual. I also used to play guitar and I find the shifting a little like strumming a guitar and tapping my feet. It makes me feel connected to the machine in a way, the automatic doesn't. Even hitting the paddle, the shifts are so fast that they area out of rhythm but with a proper manual, you maintain the rhythm and it feels great.
We all know that it's a subjective, personal thing. Numerous, endless discussions about this topic at car forums.

True that it's nostalgia related, as technology inevitably evolves, improving situations.

But there is that peculiar physical and psychological aspect: rowing through gears with an MT feels more like as if the stick is an extension of your arm (and actually it is). Foot and arm operating in close harmony, as if you could touch - and stay in control over - the mechanics mounted onto the chassis. Getting you a little closer to experiencing the car's pulse (movements, bumps, clicks, vibrations, etc.). As a matter of fact, you got a more direct contact with the machinery - less 'sterile' compared to 'sending a message' to the machinery with a mini-moment paddle click or by delegating the whole shifting job to the robot for comfort purposes. And I don't mind that we can never match the speed, shifting perfection and consistency of the robot. No prizes to win. I consider it a benefit that one got to 'work' the machinery, that it requires more involvement. Though I fully understand that others will reply that AUTO/DCT is way more comfortable to operate.

Actually, I don't mind hearing someone gasping for breath when (s)he's singing a song or playing an instrument. I don't mind the artist and audience generating additional sounds that do not feature on the music score. To some extent all those additional sounds (noise?) could be edited out of the recording to achieve a more 'pure' sound, but I don't like that. For, often natural sounds feel more recognizable, more comfortable to connect to.

On the other hand, I do not mind embracing technology. If we adopt the same idea set out above to all sorts of assistance (warnings, DSC nannies, ABS, hill hold, navigation, comfort access, light and rain sensors, cruise control, high beam assist, power/memory seats, etc.) one could consider that you should leave it all off or out (if possible) to have a more 'pure' driving experience. Paradoxically, I don't mind those things (gadgets and gimmicks ?) to be on board and active. But as regards transmission, I'm an old skool MT aficionado.
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      07-06-2015, 08:26 PM   #11
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No manual, holds Boost through the shift as well as M-DCT!

The End.

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      07-06-2015, 11:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
We all know that it's a subjective, personal thing. Numerous, endless discussions about this topic at car forums.

True that it's nostalgia related, as technology inevitably evolves, improving situations.

But there is that peculiar physical and psychological aspect: rowing through gears with an MT feels more like as if the stick is an extension of your arm (and actually it is). Foot and arm operating in close harmony, as if you could touch - and stay in control over - the mechanics mounted onto the chassis. Getting you a little closer to experiencing the car's pulse (movements, bumps, clicks, vibrations, etc.). As a matter of fact, you got a more direct contact with the machinery - less 'sterile' compared to 'sending a message' to the machinery with a mini-moment paddle click or by delegating the whole shifting job to the robot for comfort purposes. And I don't mind that we can never match the speed, shifting perfection and consistency of the robot. No prizes to win. I consider it a benefit that one got to 'work' the machinery, that it requires more involvement. Though I fully understand that others will reply that AUTO/DCT is way more comfortable to operate.

Actually, I don't mind hearing someone gasping for breath when (s)he's singing a song or playing an instrument. I don't mind the artist and audience generating additional sounds that do not feature on the music score. To some extent all those additional sounds (noise?) could be edited out of the recording to achieve a more 'pure' sound, but I don't like that. For, often natural sounds feel more recognizable, more comfortable to connect to.

On the other hand, I do not mind embracing technology. If we adopt the same idea set out above to all sorts of assistance (warnings, DSC nannies, ABS, hill hold, navigation, comfort access, light and rain sensors, cruise control, high beam assist, power/memory seats, etc.) one could consider that you should leave it all off or out (if possible) to have a more 'pure' driving experience. Paradoxically, I don't mind those things (gadgets and gimmicks ?) to be on board and active. But as regards transmission, I'm an old skool MT aficionado.
I love technology too. I remember guys complaining about fuel injection in the 80s.. I loved it and still do. I'm a big fan of VTEC, VANOS, direct injection, distributorless ignition, cylinder deactivation on big motors. I love the power and efficiency that technology gives us. I always loved German and Japanese motors because they used technology over cubic inches to make their motors more powerful, lighter and more efficient compared to the American stuff of the day. I love asymetrical tires and even dual compound tires like the Supersports. I love turbos, intercoolers, water injection, compound rotors and all those things. I think the hill hold is awesome because it helps take away a scary thing for those that want a manual but live in San Francisco or other hilly town. I love automatic wipers because they allow you to focus on driving and shifting and not controlling the wiper speed as rain changes. I love all of this technology. When the first dual clutch automatic was available in Audi and VW GTI, I ran out and bought one before BMW even had one.

I assume that you don't mean that I'm afraid of technology but but just to clear the air, I am a big techno-geek about cars. I spend hours on the toilet pouring over Car and Driver and looking at every spec ....weight, compression ratios, brake design, grearing ratios, final drive...etc etc.

But when the technology takes over so much of the driving...I don't see the point. ABS for example activates in an emergency situation but the transmission is taking away the shifting and clutching rhythm that I enjoy.

I was a teenager in the 80s when synthesizers got really big and so many musicians would lay down perfectly timed digital beats. They were way more accurate and could play faster beats than humanly possible. There were even a few good songs made but you can't replace the drama and visual spectacle of a rock drummer hitting the skins. You could see his hands and sticks move as they were about to strike the skins and they gave you a visual cue of the impending beat that could not be reproduced on a synthesized keyboard. So if I prefer seeing a real person beating the drums over a digital soundtrack, it does not mean I don't embrace technology! I just find one more enjoyable than the other. I also find more enjoyment strumming a guitar than playing Karaoke. Yes, the Karaoke machine plays better than me but it's not as fulfilling. I guess the bottom line is that I find some technology gives value and supports the key mission and some takes some away.
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      07-06-2015, 11:36 PM   #13
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Not considering an M2 to shave a few tenths. I want to be engaged in the driving process. I do however, prefer an automatic on full size pickups.
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      07-07-2015, 01:21 AM   #14
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No more manuals in the future and power capped at 450kw (612ps).

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/b...06-gi6jhc.html
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      07-07-2015, 06:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
No manual, holds Boost through the shift as well as M-DCT!

The End.

This isn't true at all, in fact my 1991 Audi 200 can do it. It's called no - lift shifting. The ecu cuts ignition while the clutch pedal is pressed in at WOT allowing shifts with the throttle plate open and therefore no pressure bypass.
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      07-07-2015, 06:47 AM   #16
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IMO:

Manual = Feels Like Playing Guitar
Auto = Feels Like Playing Guitar Hero

Just not the same.
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      07-07-2015, 07:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loxxrider
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
No manual, holds Boost through the shift as well as M-DCT!

The End.

This isn't true at all, in fact my 1991 Audi 200 can do it. It's called no - lift shifting. The ecu cuts ignition while the clutch pedal is pressed in at WOT allowing shifts with the throttle plate open and therefore no pressure bypass.
Welcome to 2015 where Boost drops the sec the clutch is depressed !
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      07-07-2015, 06:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
No more manuals in the future and power capped at 450kw (612ps).

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/b...06-gi6jhc.html
That's not what was said regardless of click bait titles favored by some automotive sites.
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      07-07-2015, 07:32 PM   #19
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To me, the MT is about nonconformity, individualism, a level of rebellion and, of course, domination. Characteristics illustrated by this character from the movie American Graffiti
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      07-07-2015, 07:38 PM   #20
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To me, the MT is about nonconformity, individualism, a level of rebellion and, of course, domination. Characteristics illustrated by this character from the movie American Graffiti
It's actually just about going from one gear to the next
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      07-07-2015, 07:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
It's actually just about going from one gear to the next
Which would have been illustrated by this character in the movie.
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      07-08-2015, 09:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zkeeper View Post
Have had manuals most of these many years; and am weary of those who would define an "enthusiast" by having a MT in a BMW. Hear it all the time at chapter meetings.

That's like saying if you are a real BBQ enthusiast you will only eat beef ribs from Texas.

It's a DCT for me as well...smooth, quick and a lot less effort in traffic. And then there are those back roads for shifting out of corners. They won't do away with MT's...but they might some day become the premium option for which to pay. Now that would be a reversal for sure.

Glad we can have both options...bring the DCT on BMW--a lot of us welcome that great little box.
No You would only eat Texas Brisket. And thats a fact written in stone by God himself.
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