[GPU1]

I was wondering if the automatics DS mode is as fast as if you had a manual tranny. Also is the manual automatic or DS mode better for 0-60. Cheers!

[PichaDis11]

Manual transmission has the advantage for better rev match so I'd give the plus to the 6peed.

[M-Steep]

I will acknowledge that the auto in DS mode shifts faster than I can. There, I said it.
And because it shifts faster, accel is quicker as well.

[GPU1]

Originally Posted by M-Steep

I will acknowledge that the auto in DS mode shifts faster than I can. There, I said it.
And because it shifts faster, accel is quicker as well.

Im so happy to hear that!

[weehe126]

Originally Posted by PichaDis11

Manual transmission has the advantage for better rev match so I'd give the plus to the 6peed.

Auto is faster to begin with and if you get the alpina trans flash it adds rev matching. So auto in this case will always be faster.

[WilliamS]

The newer tech autos will have the advantage. Look at the current batch of super cars, almost all of them are DSC or Autos in some way shape or form. The manuals are still needed for the guys who like to "drive" the car. I miss being connected to the car but my wife cant drive one and I don't want to ever put her in a position where she needs to drive my car and cant.

Autos are more consistent and with proper electronics, not that we have them can be a stick shift sloppy and useless. With the ability to set shift points it will never miss, never over rev, never early shift they can be amazing. Not ours though, we get a flash.

[Tom K.]

For a 2008 328i, BMW quoted a better 0~60 time for the manual transmission by about .3 seconds. IIRC, The 335i times were just about identical for Steptronic and MT.

Even for the new turbo 328i, the MT is .1 second faster to 60.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Tom

[redline2001]

Man can not shift faster than modern day electronics and thats that.

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by redline2001

Man can not shift faster than modern day electronics and thats that.

But there are still power losses with a torque converter, so the F30 328i has to use an 8 speed auto to come within .1 second of the 6 speed MT.

And even the current M3 with a 7 peed DCT (no fluid coupling) is only a couple of tenths faster than the 6 speed MT - mainly due to the DCT's much lower 1st and 2nd gear ratios.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Tom

[mike3000fl]

I can honestly say that the BMW auto transmission shifts like no other auto I have ever driven. It has very little lag at all, it shifts nice in regular D mode, and it shifts aggressively when you need it to in DS. It's almost like it can read my mind. It doesn't hesitate.

[The Cleaner]

DCT
Auto
Manual

Auto is not very good at down shift points IMO, even in sport. I think a manual will eventually do better in a technical area. Having driven them all DCT is the clear winner overall.

[mike3000fl]

In the DS mode it does do a pretty good job of holding it in a lower gear at higher RPM where the power is. Even when you let off the gas pedal it will hold it in a lower gear instead of just going into granny mode.

[parabola]

You cannot simply shift faster than a modern automatic gearbox, and I'm not even talking about DCT, just a regular 6-speed automatic.

[jeffro535]

True the auto can shift faster, but the power losses are greater, probably evening out with a slight advantage to the manual. Been a long day at work, so I'm not gonna do a bunch of math to justify, but just look at the .1,.2,.3 second differences. Not huge and easily within the realm of driver technique when it comes to racing.
I prefer the 6MT in my 335. The 8spd auto in the X1 we have is about a flawless as an auto tranny is going to get. Just depends on the car's personality in my book.
Having said all that, I'm looking at getting an M4 in a couple of years, and I am truly on the fence about whether to get the DCT or 6 MT in it.

[rick100]

auto shifts faster and its probably faster 0-60 but manual transmission is more fun .

The difference is minimal though so I would take manual over automatic anytime

[mansito]

I would say the auto is faster, but I would not trade my 6MT for a DS. You cannot beat the enjoyment of driving a MT.

[mike3000fl]

Originally Posted by jeffro535

True the auto can shift faster, but the power losses are greater,

where exactly are these losses? you realize the torque converter locks up right? meaning there is no loss there.

[335NJ]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

DCT
Auto
Manual

Auto is not very good at down shift points IMO, even in sport. I think a manual will eventually do better in a technical area. Having driven them all DCT is the clear winner overall.

This is why I try to stay out of these threads, because i'm bias to say manual over DCT/Auto, but at least you've driven them all to actually know

I prefer manual, and that's across the board, simply because I like being in direct control of everything, which is the common trait amongst manual transmission drivers. Aside from that, the 6MT on the N54 platform appears to have endless capability (so far) of high HP/TQ as long as there's a good clutch setup in place, so guys looking into ST or hybrids with high power should definitely consider the MT unless they're able to buy into the Level 10 setups, etc. which have proven themselves as well.

Regardless, this debate could go on forever, and always has on every platform.

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by mike3000fl

where exactly are these losses? you realize the torque converter locks up right? meaning there is no loss there.

At what speed in each gear does the Steptronic lock up clutch engage? I suspect that it doesn't come into play much (if at all) during a full throttle 0~60 run.

Tom

[mike3000fl]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

At what speed in each gear does the Steptronic lock up clutch engage? I suspect that it doesn't come into play much (if at all) during a full throttle 0~60 run.

Tom

Hi Tom, you have assumed wrong. It is only unlocked at standstill.

Page 010-18 of the bentley manual says this:
"The torque converter uses an integrated torsion damper which avoids unnecessary slip and power loss.The converter clutch is closed immediately after the vehicle starts off. In this way, it feels similar to a manual transmission, with short response and shift times."


And to back that up, this BMW tech document I am attaching to this post says the same thing....

"Standstill decoupling
The standstill decoupling of the torque converter decouples the torque converter from the drive when the vehicle is at a standstill. Thus only a minimum load remains, and fuel consumption is reduced. The decoupling is effected by clutch A within the transmission being regulated (depending on the load signal and output speed)."

So Tom, it appears it locks up instantly and stays locked up. No losses from the torque converter my friend

[Meeni]

When you paddle shift, it shifts quicker than a MT, but it does so after a random delay (.2 to up to 1 full second). Very irritating. Whatever the 0-60, I will never get am auto again.

[VTECaddict]

Automatics these days are insanely good. Most of the time the auto will be faster than the manual in new cars these days, especially in turbo cars because they get to maintain boost between shifts.

I would still always go with the stick whenever it's available. The more engaging driving experience is far more important to me than a few tenths of a second on a timed run.