[pdk42]

I've got my car booked for an ACS upgrade a week on Fri and I was discussing it with a colleague who said he'd "read somewhere" that BMW deliberately chose a higher ride height for the xDrive cars since the ground clearance is reduced compared to sDrive. The implication of course is that lowered cars will be at an unacceptable risk of grounding over uneven ground/speed bumps etc.
Has anyone else heard this? I haven't heard complaints from anyone who has had the ACS upgrade done, but I'm now a little worried that I'm making a change that potentially has some negative impact.

Thoughts?

[teaston]

No

[FSE23]

No, not at all

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by pdk42

I haven't heard complaints from anyone who has had the ACS upgrade done

I've had them all silenced

Seriously, it's not an issue. If it was, it would be all over this board by now.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

I've had them all silenced

Seriously, it's not an issue. If it was, it would be all over this board by now.

Yea, that was my immediate reaction too - but here's another thought... Does the lowering put the CV joints on the drive shafts at an angle other than straight? If so, wouldn't that lead to long term increased wear on the joint? I'm not trying to be paranoid, but I'm trying to figure out why BMW chose to make all xDrives ride so high.

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by pdk42

Yea, that was my immediate reaction too - but here's another thought... Does the lowering put the CV joints on the drive shafts at an angle other than straight? If so, wouldn't that lead to long term increased wear on the joint? I'm not trying to be paranoid, but I'm trying to figure out why BMW chose to make all xDrives ride so high.

Interesting post, I had heard rumours of mechanical tolerances within the 4WD system and a saloon or coupe set-up. Time will only tell if this is the case...

It does beg the question why BMW in their infinite engineering wisdom, decided that an xDrive car (excluding X models) do not receive M Sport suspension with its lower ride height.

[Lorcan]

It was a marketing decision based on what they perceived buyers of AWD cars would want. There is no technical reason why an x-drive car can't be lowered and there is no increased wear, we've been doing it on the continent for years.

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

It was a marketing decision based on what they perceived buyers of AWD cars would want. There is no technical reason why an x-drive car can't be lowered and there is no increased wear, we've been doing it on the continent for years.

Don't believe that for a moment. Take one of the definitive sporting compact saloon/coupes with an M Sport pack and lowered suspension to compete against the likes of Audi and their S Line (they have sports/lowered suspension with quattro) and then make it look like its on stilts? Sorry, doesn't sound at all like a marketing decision to me.

Interestingly, everyone has universally criticised the ride height of [M Sport] xDrive saloons/coupes, so can't imagine where the marketing dept got that from or which cross section of sample customers they asked. People AREN'T actually buying them because of it.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by F32Dude

Don't believe that for a moment. Take one of the definitive sporting compact saloon/coupes with an M Sport pack and lowered suspension to compete against the likes of Audi and their S Line (they have sports/lowered suspension) and then make it look like its on stilts? Sorry, doesn't sound at all like a marketing decision to me.

Interestingly, everyone universally has criticised the ride height of xDrive saloons/coupes, so can't imagine where the marketing dept got that from or which cross section of sample customers they asked. People AREN'T actually buying them because of it.

It is marketing decision but not quite for the same reason as Lorcan states imho.

BMW have always had RWD and even weight balance as central to the rationale as to why they are great handling cars. If they go and make the xdrive cars handle as well as or better than the RWD ones then they kind of shoot themselves in the foot. So they've made a decision to sandbag their own cars, as the majority of xdrive owners really won't care. You can't confuse what the average poster on here thinks with what the other tens of thousands of car buyers think and want.

I've looked in to this technical issue via my dad who is a BMW technician. The response from the tech guy he spoke to is that there is no reason whatsoever regarding the mechanics of the front drivetrain, but actually what may not work quite as designed is the xdrive software and control system. Not sure as to actually why but presumably as the rate of weight transfer etc has changed. But for me that's a minor issue that I'm unlikely to notice, unlike the soft handling I had as standard.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by F32Dude

Don't believe that for a moment. Take one of the definitive sporting compact saloon/coupes with an M Sport pack and lowered suspension to compete against the likes of Audi and their S Line (they have sports/lowered suspension with quattro) and then make it look like its on stilts? Sorry, doesn't sound at all like a marketing decision to me.

It's not being marketed as a sports option. It's being marketed as being of benefit in poor weather and/or for difficult road conditions. Look at this page and watch the video, it even shows the car going down farm tracks where you might want a bit more ground clearance.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/topics/di...oduction.html#

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by F32Dude

Don't believe that for a moment. Take one of the definitive sporting compact saloon/coupes with an M Sport pack and lowered suspension to compete against the likes of Audi and their S Line (they have sports/lowered suspension with quattro) and then make it look like its on stilts? Sorry, doesn't sound at all like a marketing decision to me.

Interestingly, everyone has universally criticised the ride height of [M Sport] xDrive saloons/coupes, so can't imagine where the marketing dept got that from or which cross section of sample customers they asked. People AREN'T actually buying them because of it.

Oh that will be the Audi A4 Allroad Quattro.

The xdrive seems to have sold quite well on the Continent and across the Pond.

In the number of years it has been on sale in those markets not really read about many issue.

BMW need to survive in the global market (USA and China), they have front wheel drive cars out with lots more to follow, the next M5 is very likely to have xdrive.
Agreed it could have had proper MSport suspension, however I prefer the slightly higher ride height.

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Oh that will be the Audi A4 Allroad Quattro.

Errr, no. Any S-Line car (which has sports suspension) and quattro 4WD: A4, A5, A6, A7, A8.

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

It's not being marketed as a sports option. It's being marketed as being of benefit in poor weather and/or for difficult road conditions. Look at this page and watch the video, it even shows the car going down farm tracks where you might want a bit more ground clearance.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/topics/di...oduction.html#

So a BMW 4 series sports coupe with xDrive is now classed as a go anywhere farm/agricultural vehicle...? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Why the hell would you buy a 4 series or a three for that matter to go down a farm track?

[JustChris]

Doesn't all this get a bit out of hand. We're talking what... 10mm ride height difference. Some more ride height was thought by BMW to be useful for colder climates and those wanting X Drive type vehicles yes. I don't think a 435D Xdrive looks like a farm vehicle at all no, its a fast stylish but slightly higher riding x drive vehicle, consumer has a choice and yes there's no M Sport suspension either .... but F32Dude this has all been covered many times.

Back to the OP a firm NO, no issues seen by anyone lowering.

[G82Dude]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I've looked in to this technical issue via my dad who is a BMW technician. The response from the tech guy he spoke to is that there is no reason whatsoever regarding the mechanics of the front drivetrain, but actually what may not work quite as designed is the xdrive software and control system. Not sure as to actually why but presumably as the rate of weight transfer etc has changed. But for me that's a minor issue that I'm unlikely to notice, unlike the soft handling I had as standard.

Seems odd; software and control systems can be adapted and modified to work with different configurations, such is the changeable nature of software.

And BMW being BMW, they could offer the consumer sports suspension or delete it at no cost, like they do on their other vehicles. Never to have had it there questions their reasons why to me.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by ChesterM2

Doesn't all this get a bit out of hand. We're talking what... 10mm ride height difference. Some more ride height was thought by BMW to be useful for colder climates and those wanting X Drive type vehicles yes. I don't think a 435D Xdrive looks like a farm vehicle at all no, its a fast stylish but slightly higher riding x drive vehicle, consumer has a choice and yes there's no M Sport suspension either ...

Nope, no getting away from it - an Xdrive 4 series has simply ludicrous ride height. Looks utter, utter gash, and almost everyone with an Xdrive has questioned the slightly roly-poly handling. After testing an 435Xi I avoided Xdrive completely. Lost sale from me.

If I wanted monster truck ride height, and the ability to pop down farm roads I wouldn't have even looked at a coupe.

D.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

Nope, no getting away from it - an Xdrive 4 series has simply ludicrous ride height. Looks utter, utter gash, and almost everyone with an Xdrive has questioned the slightly roly-poly handling. After testing an 435Xi I avoided Xdrive completely. Lost sale from me.

If I wanted monster truck ride height, and the ability to pop down farm roads I wouldn't have even looked at a coupe.

D.

Yeah totally agree with that for coupes and convertibles.

High ride height and tractor engines have no place in either of them.

Petrol and 'proper' suspension.

Having xdrive and diesel makes them fast stylish tractors.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by F32Dude

Seems odd; software and control systems can be adapted and modified to work with different configurations, such is the changeable nature of software.

And BMW being BMW, they could offer the consumer sports suspension or delete it at no cost, like they do on their other vehicles. Never to have had it there questions their reasons why to me.

Of course it could, but the point was that when you do an after market spring change then you don't change this. Ultimately the guy's view was nothing to worry about from a ride height issue.

Additionally, check out the Alpina D3, which can be had as an xdrive in the tourer in LHD markets- it doesn't ride any higher than the sdrive version. If your theory was correct and it wasn't possible then Alpina wouldn't do it.

For that matter, neither would ACS, as they warranty for issues caused by their mods. I very much doubt they'd do that for the margin to be made in a set of £300 springs. Clearly you're not persuaded by ACS, but Alpina is clearly a whole different ballgame.

As to your point above, well indeed they could offer a performance xdrive option, but then they'd run the risk of those xdrive cars handling as well as or better than the RWD cars, which cocks up much of their brand positioning. This then ties is with Lorcan's point that the advertising of xdrive itself is based entirely on safety and security in adverse weather conditions- look at all the adverts, check the BMW winter driving supplement in CAR magazine earlier this year... all xdrive marketing is about this adverse weather positioning.

I guess each person needs to be comfortable with any change they make to their car though, and if anyone has any doubts then they should look in to it properly and be sure, otherwise they won't really enjoy the modification for all the anxiety!

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by pdk42

Yea, that was my immediate reaction too - but here's another thought... Does the lowering put the CV joints on the drive shafts at an angle other than straight? If so, wouldn't that lead to long term increased wear on the joint? I'm not trying to be paranoid, but I'm trying to figure out why BMW chose to make all xDrives ride so high.

I think we all thought the same a year ago and had concerns about wear on components etc.....

However, the fact BMW dealerships actually fit ASC springs is testament enough that there are no concerns to be worried about.

Do you think BMW would endorse the fitting of these springs if they caused a problem?

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by dopper99

I think we all thought the same a year ago and had concerns about wear on components etc.....

However, the fact BMW dealerships actually fit ASC springs is testament enough that there are no concerns to be worried about.

Do you think BMW would endorse the fitting of these springs if they caused a problem?

I'm still going to go ahead with the ACS upgrade, but I don't think BMW UK (or corporate) have endorsed such upgrades at all. That a dealership will throw in a couple of hundred quid's worth of labour to meet a customer's expectation is not surprising if it secures a deal - but that's not "endorsement". However, after speaking to Lorcan and reading other owners' experiences here, I'm personally satisfied that the risk is low compared to the benefits. We all need to make choices based on the info available - and live with the consequences!

I'm going to send a mail to BMW and see if I can get any statement out of them - I sort of doubt it, but it would be interesting to see anyhow

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by dopper99

I think we all thought the same a year ago and had concerns about wear on components etc.....

Yes it was one of those big debates back then wasn't it! The amount the ACS spring actually lower it by though could possibly make a difference to anything mechanically though, as it's still well within the operating range of the standard suspension.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by pdk42

I'm still going to go ahead with the ACS upgrade, but I don't think BMW UK (or corporate) have endorsed such upgrades at all. That a dealership will throw in a couple of hundred quid's worth of labour to meet a customer's expectation is not surprising if it secures a deal - but that's not "endorsement".

I'm going to send a mail to BMW and see if I can get any statement out of them - I sort of doubt it, but it would be interesting to see anyhow

For a company to officially fit another company's equipment, there are a number of commercial hoops to jump through.

ACS is in away similar to mountune is with Ford.

note there is a big difference to fully endorsing something and saying it is an allowable aftermarket part that they will fit.

There is a pretty clear warranty with the ACS kit as well.