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      10-16-2014, 11:01 PM   #1
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Anyone know how the CCB's at the BMW events holding up?

Does anyone have any insight to how the CCB's are holding up on the M3/M4's being used for the performance schools, trackday events etc.

There's so much conflicting information about the longevity of CCB's, I'm curious to see if they're holding up, or if they're constantly having to change pads/rotors these vehicles seeing a lot of duty
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      10-17-2014, 08:19 AM   #2
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I think its still too early to tell, unless people have trashed them after a couple track days..
But I agree, I would also be curious.
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      10-18-2014, 04:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin.RS
Does anyone have any insight to how the CCB's are holding up on the M3/M4's being used for the performance schools, trackday events etc.

There's so much conflicting information about the longevity of CCB's, I'm curious to see if they're holding up, or if they're constantly having to change pads/rotors these vehicles seeing a lot of duty
I have them on my cP M6 , and they did fantastic on a hot summer day stopping 4200 pounds from 150 mph GPS lap after lap .for 4 20 min sessions in an advanced group .Great feel , zero fade,and no pad deposits on the rotors . They felt as good as my PFC BBK with 08 pads on my Z4M track car . Wear wise the 4 20 min sessions took 10 k miles/ 6k , off the pad life (front/rear)via the service indicator display . I did not weigh the rotors to see how much carbon was lost but I'm sure it was minimal . On a lighter less powerful M3/4 I'm sure the rotors and pads will last even longer .
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      10-24-2014, 12:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
I have them on my cP M6 , and they did fantastic on a hot summer day stopping 4200 pounds from 150 mph GPS lap after lap .for 4 20 min sessions in an advanced group .Great feel , zero fade,and no pad deposits on the rotors . They felt as good as my PFC BBK with 08 pads on my Z4M track car . Wear wise the 4 20 min sessions took 10 k miles/ 6k , off the pad life (front/rear)via the service indicator display . I did not weigh the rotors to see how much carbon was lost but I'm sure it was minimal . On a lighter less powerful M3/4 I'm sure the rotors and pads will last even longer .

thanks for the info.
As someone who tracks their car would you get the CCB's again? Did the pros outweigh the cons for you?
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      10-24-2014, 05:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin.RS
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
I have them on my cP M6 , and they did fantastic on a hot summer day stopping 4200 pounds from 150 mph GPS lap after lap .for 4 20 min sessions in an advanced group .Great feel , zero fade,and no pad deposits on the rotors . They felt as good as my PFC BBK with 08 pads on my Z4M track car . Wear wise the 4 20 min sessions took 10 k miles/ 6k , off the pad life (front/rear)via the service indicator display . I did not weigh the rotors to see how much carbon was lost but I'm sure it was minimal . On a lighter less powerful M3/4 I'm sure the rotors and pads will last even longer .

thanks for the info.
As someone who tracks their car would you get the CCB's again? Did the pros outweigh the cons for you?
I would on the M6 because they are necessary , the stock system just isn't enough . Also on the M5/6 the CCB's save close to 50lbs vs just around 10 on the m3/4 . BMW did a very nice job on the standard M3/4 brakes so it's a tougher call . The CCB's are better in every way though , truly fantastic . I will be getting CCB's on my cars going forward for sure .
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      10-28-2014, 09:30 AM   #6
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If they're anything like the Porsche PCCB, you should be fine with wear/tear as long as you replace pads around 50%. I've heard of people avoiding the disc replacement that way. Then again, PCCBs are a bit pricier than the BMW system...
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      11-11-2014, 08:27 PM   #7
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squeal

I have heard the ceramics squeal until they get warmed up. True? And how loud are they?
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      11-14-2014, 01:30 PM   #8
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Has anyone w CCB's noted difficult braking in the wet, on first application?
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      11-14-2014, 01:42 PM   #9
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I wish someone had an inside track to the PDC, they would have ample data to share on this topic.
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      11-14-2014, 09:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mroberto
Has anyone w CCB's noted difficult braking in the wet, on first application?
They work great when cold and in the wet , really a step up from previous CCB's .mine are actually very quiet .
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      11-14-2014, 09:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
They work great when cold and in the wet , really a step up from previous CCB's .mine are actually very quiet .
Is this on an F8X or on your M6?
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      11-14-2014, 09:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
They work great when cold and in the wet , really a step up from previous CCB's .mine are actually very quiet .
Is this on an F8X or on your M6?
On my M6.
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      11-15-2014, 08:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Also on the M5/6 the CCB's save close to 50lbs vs just around 10 on the m3/4 .
In the brake deep dive posted on this board the engineer quotes a weight saving of 12.5 kg. Where did you come up with the 10 lb figure?
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      11-15-2014, 08:59 PM   #14
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But back to the original poster's question, I have not tracked the car but I have driven several times in the rain. I notice no noise. If I didn't know the CCB option was there, I wouldn't be aware of them in the wet.
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      11-15-2014, 09:07 PM   #15
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Since we don't yet have enough data on the Bimmers: There is a very good article in Panorama (the PCA monthly mag) on the 2nd gen PCCBs that are tracked. It basically concludes by the accounts of two different cars (997 TT and 987 Spyder) and drivers' perspectives that the PCCBs lasted half the time of the iron discs of Porsche when use at the track even with only Porsche brake pads.
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      11-15-2014, 09:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
Since we don't yet have enough data on the Bimmers: There is a very good article in Panorama (the PCA monthly mag) on the 2nd gen PCCBs that are tracked. It basically concludes by the accounts of two different cars (997 TT and 987 Spyder) and drivers' perspectives that the PCCBs lasted half the time of the iron discs of Porsche when use at the track even with only Porsche brake pads.
The iron disc last longer? That runs counter to everything I have ever read or watched about CC discs. By the way, the two worldwide manufacturers of CC discs merged a few years ago, so I would imagine the performance of all CC discs is similar because all rotors are made by the same company. The caliper/piston setup as well as friction material could vary I suppose.
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      11-15-2014, 10:00 PM   #17
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That was their experience on the track, they were both getting 5-6 days out of a set of rotors, with the irons they were getting 10-12 days. Also, although the pedal feel was always firm with better initial bite, the writer preferred the feel of irons. Furthermore, although there was significant unsprung mass increase with the irons, the writer was still faster on the track with them than with the PCCBs.

Porsche is now on 3rd gen PCCBs, similar to BMWs I suspect as they are both made by Brembo SG; however, their experience is similar to mine although I do not have long term experience with PCCBs.

Another thing to point out is that they are comparing performances of Porsche's CCBs to Porsche's iron setup, beside the rotor differences in material, the iron setup uses the same type and size of calipers and rotors, which is not the case with BMW obviously.
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      11-16-2014, 12:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
Since we don't yet have enough data on the Bimmers: There is a very good article in Panorama (the PCA monthly mag) on the 2nd gen PCCBs that are tracked. It basically concludes by the accounts of two different cars (997 TT and 987 Spyder) and drivers' perspectives that the PCCBs lasted half the time of the iron discs of Porsche when use at the track even with only Porsche brake pads.

This was my biggest concern.
CCB's would last the life of the car for daily use, but if you were to track the car at all they would degrade sooner than iron rotors
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      11-16-2014, 01:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin.RS View Post
This was my biggest concern.
CCB's would last the life of the car for daily use, but if you were to track the car at all they would degrade sooner than iron rotors
I am not concerned. Paying for the option for rotors only is not the real purpose. IMHO, in the case of BMW the calipers, the master cylinder and brake booster are where the value is. Of course opinions differ widely on this

On a Porsche I would not buy the option because the iron setup is race quality, I personally don't believe it is the case with BMW.

The only thing missing from both marques though is Bosch M4 ABS unit; only if that was offered as an option, even at $10K, I would have checked for it
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      11-16-2014, 11:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin.RS View Post
This was my biggest concern.
CCB's would last the life of the car for daily use, but if you were to track the car at all they would degrade sooner than iron rotors
No disrespect to FTS, but I wouldn't benchmark ceramic rotor longevity based on a magazine article even if it was written by racing drivers.
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      11-16-2014, 01:25 PM   #21
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No disrespect at all, it is just another point of view, and I agree with you. We need specific examples of our own use with the F8x IMO. By the way to clarify the author made a point to mention he is NOT a racing driver but an experienced DE'er which what I am as well.
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      11-16-2014, 03:07 PM   #22
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Ceramic brakes were never designed for longevity.
Brakes slow the car by converting the kinetic energy to heat energy, the faster you are travelling when braking, the harder you brake and the more often you brake (ie track driving) the more heat energy is generated. The function of ceramic brakes is to dissipate this heat quicker.
The material of the ceramic rotors do this by holding the heat at the surface, and because you are applying the same amount of heat energy to only a small proportion of the rotor the temperatures can rise quite quickly.
The increased temperature is what causes the carbon in the discs to oxidise, reducing their weight and strength.
If the temperature of the discs is kept low (street driving) then they should last the life of the vehicle.
The more time the discs are kept at high temperatures and the higher the temperature the more their life is reduced.
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