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      10-13-2014, 09:34 AM   #1
JoeFromPA
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18" winter wheel options/pricing - let's list them here

Hi all,

I'm starting this thread to specifically call out and gather centrally one thread of information on confirmed 18" wheel options for the F80/F82 that are appropriate for winter use.

And, whenever possible, pricing information.

Here's what I've gathered so far:

Original 18" wheels - Style 513m - Unconfirmed price of $600/wheel from BMW - Staggered wheel setup can run 255 wide square tires but cannot be rotated from to back

BMW-recommended winter setup - Style 640m - Confirmed price of $2700 shipped (or less with local pick-up) WITH continental performance winter tires mounted and balanced - runs a square setup of 255/40/18. Is this setup able to be rotated since the wheel sizes/offsets differ F/R?

Tirerack-sourced Rial P10 - Unconfirmed price of $200/wheel - Not listed on tirerack's website but confirmed verbally over the phone they can offer this. Details still lacking, such as whether it's hub-centric or requires a hub-centering ring.

I want to edit this thread with more information as it becomes available/comes in. I have ~4 weeks left to secure wheels/tires for the M3 winter. There's a few things I'm battling with and will also try to post here:

1. OEM quality vs. price when it comes to bend-resistance
2. Bend-resistance of lower price wheels (such as Rial, to which I've had good experiences)
3. Finding an 18" set that is not only able to run a square setup, but also confirmed able to be rotated.

Thanks for any contribution to this.
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      10-13-2014, 10:23 AM   #2
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I am in the UK and have bought a set of 640Ms though have not yet collected them from the dealer. I believe that the rear wheels are 1/2" wider than the fronts though the same size tyre is recommended for both in the OEM setup. The full wheel / tyre package (with Contis) is apparently not likely to be available in the UK until November. I intend to use Pilot Alpin PA4s in the 255/40 18 size as I already have 2 slightly worn from my 330d set up. The dealer gave me a discount on the wheels so no more expensive than OEM package. Also remember that the valves with temp/pressure sensors are needed.
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      10-13-2014, 11:42 AM   #3
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Appreciate the thread... any reason you would not just use your OEM wheels for winter, considering the BMW OEM winter wheels are around $600 per? Could use the OEM and then take the $600 (or whatever else you wanted to add) and upgrade for the winter...especially if you are worried about issues with lower priced wheels.

Saw one post where someone had put 19inch Avant Garde 510 wheels on, square setup with Nokians.
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      10-13-2014, 12:34 PM   #4
JoeFromPA
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My first option listed above is to put winter tires on the OEM rims and you can run a square setup like that. However, you can't rotate and you are looking at ~$200-350/year in mounting/balancing costs + risk to your wheels from so much handling.

Edit: Also, gthal's Avant Garde setup is great and I'd mimic it....in 18" wheels. The roads around here are too rough for 19" wheels for winter use in my opinion.
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      10-13-2014, 01:54 PM   #5
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I've got my plan set now.

I'm going to take the 245/40-18 and 265/40-18 Michelin PA I used on my E9x M3 (currently still mounted on a set of 219M wheels) and put them on a set of 513M wheels I just bought for $1500.

It means the speedo will be slightly off but I will live with it. Other than Pirelli RFT, I don't see any 255/40-18 and 275/40-18 winters available in the US anyway. At least not from Tire Rack. And this way I don't have to buy new winter tires.
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      10-13-2014, 01:58 PM   #6
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SE PA...makes sense. I'm in the Chicagoland area, so... roads are not all that great either.
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      10-13-2014, 02:21 PM   #7
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I've got a set of 513M's ready to go, with Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60's in 255/40/18 square. Rears are stretched a bit, but look ok to me. Won't be able to rotate front to back with the wheels, but I only plan to roll on these for 3 months or so during ski season (Dec to Mar) and can rotate the tires off the wheels after a couple of years I'm guessing...
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      10-13-2014, 06:21 PM   #8
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^^^

With the same size tire on all four corners you could make that setup just about perfect if you picked up two more of 9" wide front wheels to run out back instead of the 10" wide rears. That would allow you to rotate. Nice thing about the the F8x is the concavity is almost identical front and rear. Rears are actually 1.7mm deeper but you'd be hard pressed to even notice the difference visually. You might even be able to swap with someone who wants to run 10" all around for a square track setup (assuming there are no clearance issues with that setup in front).
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      10-13-2014, 06:52 PM   #9
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Mkoesel,

What I'm trying to find out - and having some difficulty doing - is if the FRONT or REAR 640m or 513m can be used in a square setup.

So, for example, can I run 4 9" wide 640m wheels? Or even 4 8.5" wide 640m wheels?

I want to run a square setup I can rotate. I've gotten some good pricing now on a local pickup of 640m's....
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      10-13-2014, 07:11 PM   #10
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guys i spoke to the tire rack today about this and they are telling me you need to keep a stagger on the M3 with winter tires because of the traction control system./ is this honestly true? I always ran a square set up on my prior M5 and M6 cars in 18 inch. they also said they havent test fit rims yet in 18 inch on the M3 etc. kinda wasnt the info i was expecting to hear. I guess il start looking for OEM 18 inch now online
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      10-13-2014, 08:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Mkoesel,

What I'm trying to find out - and having some difficulty doing - is if the FRONT or REAR 640m or 513m can be used in a square setup.
I can't answer this for certain either, but I sure cannot come up with anything that would prevent the narrower front wheel from bolting up to the rear axle. Edit: as per a point made below by another poster - tire width, not wheel width, determines track width. So the fact is, by running the 9" wheel in back you actually gain 1mm in track width per side vs. the 10" wheel.

I haven't even run the numbers on the 640M wheels either - they may vary the track width from stock too for that matter.


Quote:
So, for example, can I run 4 9" wide 640m wheels? Or even 4 8.5" wide 640m wheels?
It does make you wonder why BMW chose to make the front and rear winter wheels different widths doesn't it? Wish I knew what that was about. Haven't seen them do that with past winter setups. Edit: deleted confusing tangent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carcollector212 View Post
guys i spoke to the tire rack today about this and they are telling me you need to keep a stagger on the M3 with winter tires because of the traction control system./ is this honestly true?
Both of BMW's recommended OEM winter setups include 255mm wide tires at all four corners so this is definitely not true. If someone at TireRack commented about this setup, they may possibly have been doing so in the context of optimal performance and handling on a dry surface. It is certainly not an absolute requirement however.
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      10-13-2014, 08:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carcollector212 View Post
guys i spoke to the tire rack today about this and they are telling me you need to keep a stagger on the M3 with winter tires because of the traction control system./ is this honestly true? I always ran a square set up on my prior M5 and M6 cars in 18 inch. they also said they havent test fit rims yet in 18 inch on the M3 etc. kinda wasnt the info i was expecting to hear. I guess il start looking for OEM 18 inch now online
"Need" is a bit of an odd comment here from Tire Rack given that the BMW winter sets are shipped with 255/40/18 square... Sounds like this might perhaps be a Tire Rack "recommendation".
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      10-13-2014, 09:04 PM   #13
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Argh, yes, this is frustrating. I'm making a choice for 5 years + resale value of the wheels, and it's an expensive choice upfront. ALL I want to do is be able to rotate since I've got a square setup. Why is this so hard?

Maybe I'll ask Bimmerzone if they'd be willing to order two sets of wheels/tires in 640m and I can bolt up all 4 fronts and all 4 rears and see if there are any clearance issues. I already asked if they'd be willing to do a group buy and while the answer is yes the discount isn't huge (like 3%).

....

Ok so I just looked again at the specs of the BMW 513m and 640m wheels. Check this out:

Summer wheels

- 9x18 (ET29) +10x18 (ET40), Style 513M

Winter wheels

- 8,5x18 (ET27) +9x18 (ET29), Style 640M

So the FRONT 513m is the exact same size and offset as the REAR 640m.

This SHOULD be absolute rock solid evidence you can run a square set of 18x9 640m with 255/40/18 or any other tire size that works on the M. Assuming those specs are correct, and BMW is issuing these with 255/40/18 tires, I have zero idea why BMW is issuing the front winter wheel .5" narrower.
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      10-13-2014, 09:53 PM   #14
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Good post and great point, Joe.

So, by going with the recommended 8.5" wide wheel in front instead of the 9" wide wheel you narrow the track 4.35mm on each side vs. stock. Perhaps there's some benefit to that? I suppose you also lean the side walls in slightly more than in the rear. Could it be that this effect is supposed to keep the difference in rolling radius between front and rear (I.e smaller in front) closer to what it is with stock summer wheel/tire setups? Seems a bit far-fetched but I cant come up with anything else.
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      10-14-2014, 06:38 AM   #15
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Does anyone have a pic of the 640m wheels?
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      10-14-2014, 07:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoxieMoxie
Does anyone have a pic of the 640m wheels?
F8x OEM winter wheels style 640M and 641M http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=945354
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      10-14-2014, 08:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Good post and great point, Joe.

So, by going with the recommended 8.5" wide wheel in front instead of the 9" wide wheel you narrow the track 4.35mm on each side vs. stock. Perhaps there's some benefit to that? I suppose you also lean the side walls in slightly more than in the rear. Could it be that this effect is supposed to keep the difference in rolling radius between front and rear (I.e smaller in front) closer to what it is with stock summer wheel/tire setups? Seems a bit far-fetched but I cant come up with anything else.
Could be to increase understeer for winter driving?
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      10-14-2014, 12:39 PM   #18
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I cant follow. Maybe silly question but why is the track narrower ? 9x18 ET29 summer and 8,5x18 ET27 with same (255) rubber. Winter wheel sits 2mm farther out with ET27. Wheel is 1/2inch slimmer but rubber "sticks out" a bit more. Or am i completely wrong ?
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      10-14-2014, 04:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimix View Post
I cant follow. Maybe silly question but why is the track narrower ? 9x18 ET29 summer and 8,5x18 ET27 with same (255) rubber. Winter wheel sits 2mm farther out with ET27. Wheel is 1/2inch slimmer but rubber "sticks out" a bit more. Or am i completely wrong ?
Offsets are measured from the wheel centerline. So yes it's inset 2mm less than the summer wheel, but then you have to lop 6.35mm (¼") off each side for the narrower wheel.

Edit: I see what you are saying now. Since the tire width isn't changing, track width is not effected by the narrower wheel. You're absolutely right - the track width is actually 2mm wider. My mistake

Even still, it does not explain why the need for the narrower wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Could be to increase understeer for winter driving?
Possibly. I still don't see why they had to narrow the wheel to accomplish it though. They could have just increased the offset.
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      10-14-2014, 05:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Offsets are measured from the wheel centerline. So yes it's inset 2mm less than the summer wheel, but then you have to lop 6.35mm (¼") off each side for the narrower wheel.

Edit: I see what you are saying now. Since the tire width isn't changing, track width is not effected by the narrower wheel. You're absolutely right - the track width is actually 2mm wider. My mistake

Even still, it does not explain why the need for the narrower wheel.



Possibly. I still don't see why they had to narrow the wheel to accomplish it though. They could have just increased the offset.


We need some BMW M engineers. Z Germans probably have z high speed explanation, with z legendary hand gestures.

We all would probably be like.. hmm mm hmm .. awe






but until then











WAIT FOR IT
























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      10-15-2014, 05:20 PM   #21
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So Joe, did you decide yet if you were going to try the 9" square setup (either 513M or 640M) or just go with the recommended 640M 8.5" front, 9" rear? Or something else?
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      10-15-2014, 05:47 PM   #22
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I'll post more but my second son was born yesterday

I'm trying to gather prices and will ask the place I buy from to allow me to try a square setup. I'll keep you updated.
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