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      08-21-2014, 03:20 PM   #1
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F8x M3/4 vs e9X M3 VT-595

Eventhough I'd love to get my hands on an F80 M3, my family commitments prevent me from upgrading to one at this point, so I'm stuck with the e90 M3 for a couple of years at a very minimum.

However, I'd like to hear some of you guys with experience with the ESS kits for the e9x M's and with the new F8x M's to chime in on how a Tuned M4 vs an e90 M3 VT-595 would do.

in particular, this thread has a lot of good info, but wanted to hear what the input is from this crowd:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1008637


It's either that, or just save the money and see where things stand in 3-4 years with the LCI f80 (hopefully with a competition package, etc).

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      08-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #2
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just save bro.. esp if you plan on selling your e90 eventually. doing significant powertrain upgrades like SC or turbo will bring your resale value down. nobody wants to buy a high repair cost german cars thats been obviously tempered with.
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      08-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
Eventhough I'd love to get my hands on an F80 M3, my family commitments prevent me from upgrading to one at this point, so I'm stuck with the e90 M3 for a couple of years at a very minimum.

However, I'd like to hear some of you guys with experience with the ESS kits for the e9x M's and with the new F8x M's to chime in on how a Tuned M4 vs an e90 M3 VT-595 would do.

in particular, this thread has a lot of good info, but wanted to hear what the input is from this crowd:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1008637


It's either that, or just save the money and see where things stand in 3-4 years with the LCI f80 (hopefully with a competition package, etc).

Refer to this thread Post#1. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1025594

I am now on E40...so more to follow.
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      08-21-2014, 03:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
Refer to this thread Post#1. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1025594

I am now on E40...so more to follow.
excellent info..thanks!
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      08-21-2014, 03:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ixse View Post
just save bro.. esp if you plan on selling your e90 eventually. doing significant powertrain upgrades like SC or turbo will bring your resale value down. nobody wants to buy a high repair cost german cars thats been obviously tempered with.
that's the thing though... realistically speaking, I'm 20K away from paying off the car, and it's been well taken care off with only 28k miles. If you add the ESS kit for say $10k installed, that's 30k (currently) vs having to sell it down the road (depreciation costs still going to be a hit) and then invest $80k on an M3.

Additionally, my original plan was to just enjoy this e9X M3 and in 8 years when the kids are gone to college, go balls out and get what I'm really dreaming of: a nice CPO 991 (or next gen) GT3 or Turbo.
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      08-21-2014, 03:50 PM   #6
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excellent info..thanks!
Yes sir! But I'll be honest...if you're happy with your car, we all know they're basically bulletproof. Upgrade to the VT2-625 or 650 and I'm positive you will be more than happy.
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      08-21-2014, 04:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
Yes sir! But I'll be honest...if you're happy with your car, we all know they're basically bulletproof. Upgrade to the VT2-625 or 650 and I'm positive you will be more than happy.
kinda leaning that way to be honest, and likely gonna stay with the VT-595 just to keep temperatures lower with the lower boost.
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      08-21-2014, 05:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
Yes sir! But I'll be honest...if you're happy with your car, we all know they're basically bulletproof. Upgrade to the VT2-625 or 650 and I'm positive you will be more than happy.
kinda leaning that way to be honest, and likely gonna stay with the VT-595 just to keep temperatures lower with the lower boost.
If you don't track, you should really consider a VT1-550, there's no way you can heat soak a VT1 in the street and the performance is very close to the VT2-595, also the installation is easyer and the price difference is substencial!! I've been more then happy with mine for the last 2years/18k miles!
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      08-21-2014, 08:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
If you don't track, you should really consider a VT1-550, there's no way you can heat soak a VT1 in the street and the performance is very close to the VT2-595, also the installation is easyer and the price difference is substencial!! I've been more then happy with mine for the last 2years/18k miles!
Unfortunately I do track, so likely not a good idea I this south Florida weather
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      08-21-2014, 08:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
If you don't track, you should really consider a VT1-550, there's no way you can heat soak a VT1 in the street and the performance is very close to the VT2-595, also the installation is easyer and the price difference is substencial!! I've been more then happy with mine for the last 2years/18k miles!
Unfortunately I do track, so likely not a good idea I this south Florida weather
Then the VT2-595 is probably the best choice for you, but damn I'd have a hard time not going with the VT625 for its extra 30hp for 500$!! lol

Either way, you can't go wrong with ESS I think!
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      08-21-2014, 09:56 PM   #11
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IMO what matter is how the car feels to you. A 595 kit M3 is a very fast car. I would have plenty of personal fun with it. also other people who are in the car would love it.

I wont care if a tuned M4 was faster or other cars are faster. i do not really want a car that is stupid fast anyhow. the best driver cars are never the ones with the most power.

with that said, i think either car would be good.
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      08-22-2014, 07:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3guy3 View Post
IMO what matter is how the car feels to you. A 595 kit M3 is a very fast car. I would have plenty of personal fun with it. also other people who are in the car would love it.

I wont care if a tuned M4 was faster or other cars are faster. i do not really want a car that is stupid fast anyhow. the best driver cars are never the ones with the most power.

with that said, i think either car would be good.
well said!
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      08-22-2014, 10:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
that's the thing though... realistically speaking, I'm 20K away from paying off the car, and it's been well taken care off with only 28k miles. If you add the ESS kit for say $10k installed, that's 30k (currently) vs having to sell it down the road (depreciation costs still going to be a hit) and then invest $80k on an M3.

Additionally, my original plan was to just enjoy this e9X M3 and in 8 years when the kids are gone to college, go balls out and get what I'm really dreaming of: a nice CPO 991 (or next gen) GT3 or Turbo.
Well, I'm in a similar situation with you - almost paid off my M, and thinking about a new one. This time around, I will lease not buy, because if you shop around wisely and go ED, the TCO is very similar - with the upshot that you can change the car more often and you can of course invest the $30-40k you get when selling the old car.

If you track the car, I'm not sure adding a supercharger will make it perfect - you will also need to upgrade the brakes and suspension. You're looking at $20k to do this properly, and it will be less of a DD at the end.

The M3 is perfect because it's such a good combination of DD ability while elevating itself at the track and providing a huge dose of thrills. But I'm also considering switching my ownership model to lease a fun DD (Mini Cooper S), and sink $30-40k into a nice used weekend/track car.

Lots of options, first world problems for sure. In any case, I will be hard pressed to buy another $60-80k fast depreciating asset...
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      08-22-2014, 11:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Well, I'm in a similar situation with you - almost paid off my M, and thinking about a new one. This time around, I will lease not buy, because if you shop around wisely and go ED, the TCO is very similar - with the upshot that you can change the car more often and you can of course invest the $30-40k you get when selling the old car.

If you track the car, I'm not sure adding a supercharger will make it perfect - you will also need to upgrade the brakes and suspension. You're looking at $20k to do this properly, and it will be less of a DD at the end.
The M3 is perfect because it's such a good combination of DD ability while elevating itself at the track and providing a huge dose of thrills. But I'm also considering switching my ownership model to lease a fun DD (Mini Cooper S), and sink $30-40k into a nice used weekend/track car.

Lots of options, first world problems for sure. In any case, I will be hard pressed to buy another $60-80k fast depreciating asset...
Turner Motorsport has a brand new/open box KW V3 coilover kit for sale right now for 2200$ and by shopping carefully you can get a Stop Tech ST40 BBK for less then 2500$, that's more then enough for occasionnal track days, so more in the $15K range to tranform his E9x into a monster!!
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      08-22-2014, 11:24 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Turner Motorsport has a brand new/open box KW V3 coilover kit for sale right now for 2200$ and by shopping carefully you can get a Stop Tech ST40 BBK for less then 2500$, that's more then enough for occasionnal track days, so more in the $15K range to tranform his E9x into a monster!!
I think you forget the $1000 for installation and alignment of the suspension, plus whatever installation for brakes. You also forgot the rear brake upgrade, to keep the correct bias and to handle stopping a 3700 lbs, 600 BHP car. You may also need bigger wheels to go over them brakes.

Without wanting to split hairs I think my original estimate is very much in the ballpark, if you want to do it right.
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      08-22-2014, 11:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
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I think you forget the $1000 for installation and alignment of the suspension, plus whatever installation for brakes. You also forgot the rear brake upgrade, to keep the correct bias and to handle stopping a 3700 lbs, 600 BHP car. You may also need bigger wheels to go over them brakes.

Without wanting to split hairs I think my original estimate is very much in the ballpark, if you want to do it right.
exactly
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      08-22-2014, 11:48 AM   #17
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save your money and wait. I had the VT2 on my e92 (with upgraded everything - Brembo's, HREs, full exhaust, coilovers, etc.). I won't say it was a waste, but never again am I dumping so much money into a car. better off buying a car that's better right out of the box. also, I'll be honest, when I took all of the upgrades off and returned to stock before selling it, I was reminded of what a sweetheart the e92 is from the factory. I fell in love with the car all over again.

leave it stock. save and/or spend your money on track days. there's always somebody faster than you - no need for comparisons. the e9x is still extremely fast by today's standards.
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      08-22-2014, 11:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef
save your money and wait. I had the VT2 on my e92 (with upgraded everything - Brembo's, HREs, full exhaust, coilovers, etc.). I won't say it was a waste, but never again am I dumping so much money into a car. better off buying a car that's better right out of the box. also, I'll be honest, when I took all of the upgrades off and returned to stock before selling it, I was reminded of what a sweetheart the e92 is from the factory. I fell in love with the car all over again.

leave it stock. save and/or spend your money on track days. there's always somebody faster than you - no need for comparisons. the e9x is still extremely fast by today's standards.
Totally agree. There is always someone faster. No need got a supercharger on the track. The best drivers can go fast with what they have and the E92 is plenty capable in stock form.
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      08-22-2014, 12:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I think you forget the $1000 for installation and alignment of the suspension, plus whatever installation for brakes. You also forgot the rear brake upgrade, to keep the correct bias and to handle stopping a 3700 lbs, 600 BHP car. You may also need bigger wheels to go over them brakes.

Without wanting to split hairs I think my original estimate is very much in the ballpark, if you want to do it right.
No I'm pretty sure it's in the $15k range, installation of the brakes+suspension+alignement should'nt be more then 500-600$, also a couple of places offer free install on the supercharger kit! As for the rear brakes, they really are not needed, it's been discuss a lot already, and bigger wheels are not needed either, stock wheels clear the ST40 kit and you can even fit 275/35-19 tires on them which is the same size as what the F8x has!

VT2-595 9500$
ST40 2500$
KW V3 2500$
install+alignement 500-1500$(depending if superchager install is free)

Also I'm sure he'd get a pretty good discount on all of this if he buys and install all at the same place, so I really can't see how it could surpass $16k!
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      08-22-2014, 01:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
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...
If you track the car, I'm not sure adding a supercharger will make it perfect - you will also need to upgrade the brakes and suspension. You're looking at $20k to do this properly, and it will be less of a DD at the end.

..
already have suspension, and Brembo BBK's 380mm
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      08-22-2014, 03:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
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already have suspension, and Brembo BBK's 380mm
Then play with what you have. It's a tremendous car on track the way you have it, you will be running in very good company. I have stock suspension (camber plates) and I am getting into speeds at the local tracks where I dread what might happen if something goes wrong.

I would simply not want to add 150-200 BHP on my DD car and track it.
What the supercharger will add is straight line speed, and do absolutely nothing for you in the corners. It will take you from an already high 140-150 top speed to 160 and above, which is stupid fast. Ugly things can happen if something goes wrong.

If you are pursuing this line of thought in the search of something more exciting, I would recommend changing to a different type of car. Go to a 996 GT3 for raw thrills, or a 997 for a more emotional but still civilized drive.

Just my opinion.
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      08-22-2014, 03:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post
already have suspension, and Brembo BBK's 380mm
Then play with what you have. It's a tremendous car on track the way you have it, you will be running in very good company. I have stock suspension (camber plates) and I am getting into speeds at the local tracks where I dread what might happen if something goes wrong.

I would simply not want to add 150-200 BHP on my DD car and track it.
What the supercharger will add is straight line speed, and do absolutely nothing for you in the corners. It will take you from an already high 140-150 top speed to 160 and above, which is stupid fast. Ugly things can happen if something goes wrong.

If you are pursuing this line of thought in the search of something more exciting, I would recommend changing to a different type of car. Go to a 996 GT3 for raw thrills, or a 997 for a more emotional but still civilized drive.

Just my opinion.
I was hitting 140mph on the back straight at the glen last weekend. Thats stupid fast for a street car and that's plenty fast enough for me!
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