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      08-15-2014, 12:40 PM   #1
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Car and Driver Instrumented test: 2015 BMW M3

Good article by Car and Driver about the M3 http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review
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      08-15-2014, 12:46 PM   #2
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In a real wierd way. I've really enjoyed all the hate this car has received. Because I like it, and that's all that matter.

One thing I do like, is having a car that's not seen every day. So the more people that are swayed to buy something else.........the better for me.

It's wierd way of thinking, but it's the way I feel.
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      08-15-2014, 12:49 PM   #3
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3580 weihjt, yao

Hopefully it's those extra packages adding the weight.

Weighing a base model m3/4 6mt can't come soon enough
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      08-15-2014, 12:55 PM   #4
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I'm not sure what part of that article is supposed to shut up 'haters'.
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      08-15-2014, 01:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
3580 weihjt, yao

Hopefully it's those extra packages adding the weight.

Weighing a base model m3/4 6mt can't come soon enough
I'm going to assume that the "option bloat" the car world has discussed for 20+ years as the source of weight gain is similarly contributing here

Also, the CCB's - from a static weight perspective - are almostcancelled out by the required 19" wheels/tires weight addition too

Anyway, really excited to weigh my car. I asked my dealer who is delivering to me next week if they have scales on hand since they support local racing events. I want to do an immediate weigh-in (I guess I won't remove the manual and mobility kit )
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      08-15-2014, 01:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
I'm not sure what part of that article is supposed to shut up 'haters'.
I'm guessing it's not this part:

"BMW may deserve some hate mail regarding the steering feel, though. There’s next to no feedback coming through the wheel."
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      08-15-2014, 01:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
I'm guessing it's not this part:

"BMW may deserve some hate mail regarding the steering feel, though. There’s next to no feedback coming through the wheel."
According to Mr Harris the last gen was worse

P.S. My experience is they are both very good
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      08-15-2014, 01:12 PM   #8
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Cool article...thanks for sharing.
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      08-15-2014, 01:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
According to Mr Harris the last gen was worse

P.S. My experience is they are both very good
I haven't driven the new car, but I thought the steering feel in the last V8 M3 was pretty lousy, even if it did have hydraulic assist. Haven't thought any M3 had decent steering feel since the E36 and that was only pretty good.
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      08-15-2014, 01:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
According to Mr Harris the last gen was worse

P.S. My experience is they are both very good
The new car is great. The BMW on BMW violence needs to stop.

With that said I take anything Mr Harris says about an M3 with a grain of salt. Yay burnouts :P
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      08-15-2014, 01:15 PM   #11
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Boring article. You can learn more about the car from the window sticker.
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      08-15-2014, 01:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
The new car is great. The BMW on BMW violence needs to stop.

With that said I take anything Mr Harris says about an M3 with a grain of salt. Yay burnouts :P
If you watch his entire 11 min review, he was driving very seriously for most of it and talking about feel, balance, etc. It was only the last few minutes he starting messing around... Unfortunately the version currently available largely just shows the messing around.

I agree with the BMW vs BMW thing. They are both great cars and I still love the E92 as much today as ever. The F82 is more capable, faster, more fun around town, etc but that doesn't mean the E92 is any less awesome. I would be lying if I said that I preferred everything about the F82 because I don't... there are some things about the E92 that I still prefer.
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      08-15-2014, 01:27 PM   #13
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I don't have any hate for any M3. I just don't want to whitewash all comments of any constructive criticism either. I think it's important that magazines and owners voice criticisms as well as praise, otherwise those issues will never be addressed in future versions.
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      08-15-2014, 01:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
I haven't driven the new car, but I thought the steering feel in the last V8 M3 was pretty lousy, even if it did have hydraulic assist. Haven't thought any M3 had decent steering feel since the E36 and that was only pretty good.
The E36 had great feel IMO. Pretty much as good as anything I've driven including from Porsche. Steering feel is subjective, however, so opinions will greatly vary.
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      08-15-2014, 01:39 PM   #15
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I'm come to the conclusion that most reviewers do not know what steering is supposed to feel like - nor how I define communicative.

Therefore, when I test drive an M3 and feel very satisfying feedback even at everyday/semi-aggressive speeds, and a reviewer says "it's numb and non-communicative", I tend to think said reviewer and I have a different opinion.

Seriously I really don't understand anymore. Maybe it's because I don't benchmark an M3 against a GT3, but they do and by comparison it's numb? Because it's worlds, worlds better than the F30 and my old e39 m5
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      08-15-2014, 01:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
The E36 had great feel IMO. Pretty much as good as anything I've driven including from Porsche. Steering feel is subjective, however, so opinions will greatly vary.
As good as some Porsches, better than a few, but not nearly as good as the best Porsches (best with respect to steering feel).
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      08-15-2014, 01:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
If you watch his entire 11 min review, he was driving very seriously for most of it and talking about feel, balance, etc. It was only the last few minutes he starting messing around... Unfortunately the version currently available largely just shows the messing around.

I agree with the BMW vs BMW thing. They are both great cars and I still love the E92 as much today as ever. The F82 is more capable, faster, more fun around town, etc but that doesn't mean the E92 is any less awesome. I would be lying if I said that I preferred everything about the F82 because I don't... there are some things about the E92 that I still prefer.


Yeah lets hope so otherwise why would anyone buy it right? I'm not sure why anyone would think they would make a worse performing new car.

I did see the whole review. I like Harris just not as high on him as others.

With that said the F80 isn't OMGWTFBBQ faster than an E92 but is quite a nice upgrade.

I just want to read these forums to learn about the new car before I get mine next summer. I just get tired of the back and forth. Lets make fun of chevys or something appropriate!
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      08-15-2014, 01:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post

With that said the F80 isn't OMGWTFBBQ faster than an E92 but is quite a nice upgrade.
I'm going to assume you are talking about straight line speed, since I know of really no back to back track tests of the two.

I will say that the F80 isn't crazy faster than an e92 assuming both get a perfect launch, etc.

However, the F80 is crazy faster than the e92 at:

1. Everyday RPMs (i.e. using the bottom 75% of the powerband)
2. In-gear acceleration runs like 30-75mph in 4th gear
3. Trap speed differences (to me, a 5-7mph jump between one generation and the next is crazy faster)
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      08-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
I'm going to assume you are talking about straight line speed, since I know of really no back to back track tests of the two.

I will say that the F80 isn't crazy faster than an e92 assuming both get a perfect launch, etc.

However, the F80 is crazy faster than the e92 at:

1. Everyday RPMs (i.e. using the bottom 75% of the powerband)
2. In-gear acceleration runs like 30-75mph in 4th gear
3. Trap speed differences (to me, a 5-7mph jump between one generation and the next is crazy faster)
To the points above. Yep torque.

The track should be interesting. The M4 ran 7:52 at the ring if I remember. I know most base the E92 off the 8:05 2007 6MT test but I have seen it posted a couple places that a comp pack DCT E92 was in the 7:58 range.

Crazy faster is racing a GT-R in an E92. 2-3 car lengths is not 'crazy faster' IMO.
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      08-15-2014, 02:16 PM   #20
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Ring times are pretty useless. How many of these ring times were hit by cars years apart, with different drivers and ring conditions, with perhaps different tire technology in place at the time, and with many of the exotics the car was specially prepped for the specific track 'ring and was not showroom stock (See: Ferrari for an example).

I don't get the statement about torque. I mean, I do, but instead of saying torque how about I say "60-70% more horsepower at 3000rpms in the f80 compared to the e9x"

Regarding car lengths, correct me if I'm wrong but we're closer to 5-6 car lengths at the quarter mile time considering a ~7mph faster trap speed at the end?
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      08-15-2014, 02:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Ring times are pretty useless. How many of these ring times were hit by cars years apart, with different drivers and ring conditions, with perhaps different tire technology in place at the time, and with many of the exotics the car was specially prepped for the specific track 'ring and was not showroom stock (See: Ferrari for an example).

I don't get the statement about torque. I mean, I do, but instead of saying torque how about I say "60-70% more horsepower at 3000rpms in the f80 compared to the e9x"

Regarding car lengths, correct me if I'm wrong but we're closer to 5-6 car lengths at the quarter mile time considering a ~7mph faster trap speed at the end?
I tend to believe the 117-118mph traps which is more like 4-5mph. I mean isn't that what C&D trapped?

And you're right about the ring times. I would love to see the same driver drive a 13 E92 ZCP and then a 15 F82 DCT on the same track same day. But I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist today.
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      08-15-2014, 02:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
I don't have any hate for any M3. I just don't want to whitewash all comments of any constructive criticism either. I think it's important that magazines and owners voice criticisms as well as praise, otherwise those issues will never be addressed in future versions.
+1

Last edited by nachob; 08-15-2014 at 03:14 PM..
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