[TrentOSU]

I have a purchasing question regarding an 88' E30 325is with 165k miles. Just regarding price, condition, what I should pay and what is positive about the transaction. I'm looking for someone who knows the E30 and the market regarding the 325is.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by TrentOSU

I have a purchasing question regarding an 88' E30 325is with 165k miles. Just regarding price, condition, what I should pay and what is positive about the transaction. I'm looking for someone who knows the E30 and the market regarding the 325is.

This is the wrong forum to be asking about an E30... Ask the moderator to move your question ...

[TrentOSU]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

This is the wrong forum to be asking about an E30... Ask the moderator to move your question ...

Considering the E30 forums are pretty much next to nothing dead..this is a 3 series forum hence the question. The E30 is still a 3 series and people on here drive them. Why is this the wrong place?

[Scotte30m3]

You can pay as little or as much as you want to for an e30... Depends are you looking for a project or a fully restored show car? With out seeing the car or having more details there is no way to give you a fair market value... As an FYI there are plenty of forums out the dedicated to the e30. Best bet would be to do some research leveraging google.

No I don't still own my e30 M3, god knows I wish I did...

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by TrentOSU

Considering the E30 forums are pretty much next to nothing dead..this is a 3 series forum hence the question. The E30 is still a 3 series and people on here drive them. Why is this the wrong place?

Most/many of the guys and gals posting here are much newer to BMW than E30 days. E30s are, as Scott alludes to, widely variable. A mint E30 M3 would run you over $25G easy, while a beater 318i is probably well under $2K - even $1K if high miles. If I was looking for one, I'd look for a 325is with good body - the motors can be rebuilt. And I'd change the cam belt immediately (unless the previous owner could prove it had been changed recently.)

There are focussed forums out there - for instance the BMWCCA has a very active E30 community and email lists, etc.

[Efthreeoh]

I'll chime in. I owned a 1989 E30 325i for 20 or so years, so I'm quite familiar with the car. At this point being the E30 chassis is its youngest at 24 years old (1992 Cabrio), it will be a crap shoot as to what the condition is of any E30 you are looking at. Many used ones have been through multiple owners by now, with each successive owner doing less and less maintenance and professional repair as the years go by. So the chance of finding a decent, clean E30 example at an affordable price is difficult. I found a time capsule car (1990 325is) on line a few months ago with mileage somewhere less than 30K and the price for the car was north of $30,000. Is an E30 worth that? It's up to the buyer. To me it wasn't since I had owned one for 20 years and put 250K on it, it wasn't a new experience for me, but for someone who thinks the E30 is a classic, then maybe it was a good price. In 2006 I sold mine at 256,000 miles for $1,500 to my neighbor. E30s are old cars now. Just old cars.

Really what I'm saying is there is no good answer to your question considering the age that the E30 is now and widely varied conditions of the cars you may find for sale. Most decent shape E30s I see now a days are 1990 - 1992 convertibles with a crap-ass 4-sp automatic. Keep in mind that E30s of the 1980's were maintenance intensive cars. The valve drive train needs constant maintenance with cam belts every 60,000 miles and valve adjustments every 15,000 miles (30,000 once the motor is broken in). The M20 never was very good at keeping seals intact. Plugs were every 30,000 with a new distributor cap just to make sure the engine was in top shape. Drive line fluids every 30,000 too. So to own one without going broke means you need to be a decent DIYer.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

...Just old cars.

... Most decent shape E30s I see now a days are 1990 - 1992 convertibles with a crap-ass 4-sp automatic...

++

The BMW CCA classifieds has several 'verts for sale, in the $7-$15K range.
(Figure on spending $2500 on a new top, if it needs one.) The only M3 was $30K.

[TrentOSU]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'll chime in. I owned a 1989 E30 325i for 20 or so years, so I'm quite familiar with the car. At this point being the E30 chassis is its youngest at 24 years old (1992 Cabrio), it will be a crap shoot as to what the condition is of any E30 you are looking at. Many used ones have been through multiple owners by now, with each successive owner doing less and less maintenance and professional repair as the years go by. So the chance of finding a decent, clean E30 example at an affordable price is difficult. I found a time capsule car (1990 325is) on line a few months ago with mileage somewhere less than 30K and the price for the car was north of $30,000. Is an E30 worth that? It's up to the buyer. To me it wasn't since I had owned one for 20 years and put 250K on it, it wasn't a new experience for me, but for someone who thinks the E30 is a classic, then maybe it was a good price. In 2006 I sold mine at 256,000 miles for $1,500 to my neighbor. E30s are old cars now. Just old cars.

Really what I'm saying is there is no good answer to your question considering the age that the E30 is now and widely varied conditions of the cars you may find for sale. Most decent shape E30s I see now a days are 1990 - 1992 convertibles with a crap-ass 4-sp automatic. Keep in mind that E30s of the 1980's were maintenance intensive cars. The valve drive train needs constant maintenance with cam belts every 60,000 miles and valve adjustments every 15,000 miles (30,000 once the motor is broken in). The M20 never was very good at keeping seals intact. Plugs were every 30,000 with a new distributor cap just to make sure the engine was in top shape. Drive line fluids every 30,000 too. So to own one without going broke means you need to be a decent DIYer.

Thanks for the response and insight. The car I am looking at is an Alpine Weiss 88' 325is. It is a 5 speed manual, has a straight body with no dings/dents but some paint chips on the bottom of the front bumper due to rock chips. the interior is awesome other than some wear on the driver seat. There is not a crack on the dash and all of the electronics work. It has 160k miles. There is a bit of oil leaking which I would easily be able to fix. The guy is asking $900...the paint is in very good condition just needs a good wash/polish/clay bar/wax...I just have been wanting one for awhile.

[E902009]

Former E30 325is owner here for 12 years.

I had an '89, and I highly recommend that you look around for an '89, for two reasons: It's the first year that they introduced the Euro plastic bumpers, so no more ugly aluminium diving board bumpers. It's also the last year before they installed the airbag. This only applies to E30 coupes and sedans across the board, as the bumper change did not take place on the cabrios until 1991.

Obviously, get a stick shift, and if the clutch has been replaced, even better. The original clutch is very robust, as are the M20B25 engine and the Getrag 5 speed gearbox. The sweet spot for that car is between 3200-4500 rpm. The torque increases exponentionally once you're in the 4k territory, and the inline 6 sound is just awesome. I really miss that car.

Known issues:

- Input shaft bearing goes out very frequently on these cars, especially on the later models (1988-on). When you put the gear in neutral and let go of the clutch, it sounds like you're dragging empty soda cans on the ground. Annoying, yes, but it does not hurt anything, nor does it hinder the performance of the vehicle. I drove it like that for 11 years. If it annoys you, just push the clutch in at the red light. It's a $20 part, but they have to drop the transmission and engine to replace it. The labor is what will kill you. Also, the clutch engages at about halfway in when properly adjusted, so there's no need to push the clutch all the way. Get a stopper, or make your own. There's a threaded screwhole located directly on the floorboard, behind the clutch pedal.

- Valve adjustment every 15k miles or annually. This needs to be done religiously to avoid any catastrophic failure on the valves bending. It's easy to do, but tedious. Find an indy shop that'll do it for around $100. It's a good price to pay. When they're out of adjustment, they will become noisy.

- Timing belt every 60k miles. Do this religiously, as this is an interference engine, so if the belt snaps, your engine will likely to be toast. I had mine done every 45k to 50k just because I was paranoid. When you get it done, spend the extra cash to get the water pump replaced. You're already going to take apart that part of the engine, you might as well get it done.

- LSD is a must. I don't know if the 325is was available without an LSD, but the two most common ones people run are the 3.73 (stock on the 325is), or a 4.10 (stock on the M3). 3.73 is pretty high strung, but livable. At 75mph, your RPM will be around 35-3600rpm, higher if you have a 4.10, but the torque is fun on the 4.10

- Aftermarket suspension setup: Most people ditch the stock suspension setup in favor of a stiffer setup. A good combo is Eibach or H&R springs with Bilstein Sport (NOT Bilstein HD, as those will pop with lowering springs). Urethane busghing on your controls arms are also great. These cars eat front control arm bushings like crazy. Replace them with urethanes, and you'll be fine for a very long time.

- Get a short shifter kit. UUC is good, but stock gearshift has the throw distance of a school bus.

- Check the trunk for any water pooling by the wheel wells. It's a common problem, as the drainage holes get plugged, and the water ends up inside the trunk.

- If you can harvest a set of struts and suspension set from an E36, do it, and do a five-lug swap. There's not much available with the stock 4X100, 4 lug setup. Not without spacers anyway.

PM me if you end up getting the car or have any other questions. They're pretty bullet proof. I took care of mine, but I didn't pamper it. I managed to get almost 270k on the original engine, trans, and clutch. The cluitch was slipping a bit towards the end, but again, I didn't pamper it. It was my daily, and I thouroughly enjoyed it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TrentOSU

Thanks for the response and insight. The car I am looking at is an Alpine Weiss 88' 325is. It is a 5 speed manual, has a straight body with no dings/dents but some paint chips on the bottom of the front bumper due to rock chips. the interior is awesome other than some wear on the driver seat. There is not a crack on the dash and all of the electronics work. It has 160k miles. There is a bit of oil leaking which I would easily be able to fix. The guy is asking $900...the paint is in very good condition just needs a good wash/polish/clay bar/wax...I just have been wanting one for awhile.

$900 for a straight body with that mileage, I'd go for it.

[TrentOSU]

Originally Posted by E902009

Former E30 325is owner here for 12 years.

I had an '89, and I highly recommend that you look around for an '89, for two reasons: It's the first year that they introduced the Euro plastic bumpers, so no more ugly aluminium diving board bumpers. It's also the last year before they installed the airbag. This only applies to E30 coupes and sedans across the board, as the bumper change did not take place on the cabrios until 1991.

Obviously, get a stick shift, and if the clutch has been replaced, even better. The original clutch is very robust, as are the M20B25 engine and the Getrag 5 speed gearbox. The sweet spot for that car is between 3200-4500 rpm. The torque increases exponentionally once you're in the 4k territory, and the inline 6 sound is just awesome. I really miss that car.

Known issues:

- Input shaft bearing goes out very frequently on these cars, especially on the later models (1988-on). When you put the gear in neutral and let go of the clutch, it sounds like you're dragging empty soda cans on the ground. Annoying, yes, but it does not hurt anything, nor does it hinder the performance of the vehicle. I drove it like that for 11 years. If it annoys you, just push the clutch in at the red light. It's a $20 part, but they have to drop the transmission and engine to replace it. The labor is what will kill you. Also, the clutch engages at about halfway in when properly adjusted, so there's no need to push the clutch all the way. Get a stopper, or make your own. There's a threaded screwhole located directly on the floorboard, behind the clutch pedal.

- Valve adjustment every 15k miles or annually. This needs to be done religiously to avoid any catastrophic failure on the valves bending. It's easy to do, but tedious. Find an indy shop that'll do it for around $100. It's a good price to pay. When they're out of adjustment, they will become noisy.

- Timing belt every 60k miles. Do this religiously, as this is an interference engine, so if the belt snaps, your engine will likely to be toast. I had mine done every 45k to 50k just because I was paranoid. When you get it done, spend the extra cash to get the water pump replaced. You're already going to take apart that part of the engine, you might as well get it done.

- LSD is a must. I don't know if the 325is was available without an LSD, but the two most common ones people run are the 3.73 (stock on the 325is), or a 4.10 (stock on the M3). 3.73 is pretty high strung, but livable. At 75mph, your RPM will be around 35-3600rpm, higher if you have a 4.10, but the torque is fun on the 4.10

- Aftermarket suspension setup: Most people ditch the stock suspension setup in favor of a stiffer setup. A good combo is Eibach or H&R springs with Bilstein Sport (NOT Bilstein HD, as those will pop with lowering springs). Urethane busghing on your controls arms are also great. These cars eat front control arm bushings like crazy. Replace them with urethanes, and you'll be fine for a very long time.

- Get a short shifter kit. UUC is good, but stock gearshift has the throw distance of a school bus.

- Check the trunk for any water pooling by the wheel wells. It's a common problem, as the drainage holes get plugged, and the water ends up inside the trunk.

- If you can harvest a set of struts and suspension set from an E36, do it, and do a five-lug swap. There's not much available with the stock 4X100, 4 lug setup. Not without spacers anyway.

PM me if you end up getting the car or have any other questions. They're pretty bullet proof. I took care of mine, but I didn't pamper it. I managed to get almost 270k on the original engine, trans, and clutch. The cluitch was slipping a bit towards the end, but again, I didn't pamper it. It was my daily, and I thouroughly enjoyed it.

I really appreciate the advice fellas. This is what I was hoping for!

I just picked the car up for $850 with the title signed in my name. I will post some pictures soon. I am glad that I got it for such a good price because now I can put some extra money into it!

[hockeyplayer]

congrats yes show us some photos!

[hassmaschine]

I've had an E30 for over 12 years. if it's straight, runs, clean title and is only $900, that's a pretty good deal.

[roundle]

I have not had an E30 since high school (late 90s). Future classics for sure. In 20 years, straight E30s are going to cost a bundle.

24 Hours of LeMons is killing the current supply of E30s...

For 900, you're going to get a car that will need TLC. If that's what you're looking for, go for it.

They are great cars and easy to work on with basic hand-tools.

When you test drive, here you want you want check:
*Rust (check under the car, floor pans, and rear strut towers [remove carpeting]
*Suspension is going to be tired but it's all easy to repair/replace so should not be a deal-breaker
*Brakes are cheap and easy to replace, so don't worry about it; rebuilt calipers are not horribly expensive.
*ABS Pump: If you're getting an ABS error, it's not cheap to fix
*Clutch is not horrible but not exactly cheap to replace
*Guibo/Flexjoint (rubber disk that connects transmission to drive-line): Cheap and easy to replace but REALLY bad if it fails while driving
*Valves: If they tick or knock, chances are they have not been adjusted in a while and may be worn. Getting the head re-built will cost nearly double what you're paying for the car.
*Valve seals: Make sure they're not worn-out. To do this, take the car up to about 6K RPM in 2nd gear and then let your foot off the gas so the engine slows down to about 2K RPMS. Don't touch the brakes. Repeat this process 3 times. During the 3rd de-cel, if there's white smoke, chances are the valve seals are shot
*Run a compression test: Make sure things are not too low and fairly even
*MT Syncros: Make sure you can down-shift in to all gears. Generally, when syncros go, down-shifts will grind or bite.
*Water temp: Watch the engine temp like a hawk. Over-heating will kill the cyl head. If radiator is soft, replace it. Water pump should be done every 90K miles or so.

If you buy the car, www.bavauto.com and www.bmpdesign.com will become your friends.

Lastly, I'd probably spend time on E30-centric forums--you'll find a huge amount of knowledge out there.