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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N55 (M235i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning Too bad we can't get a real ECU tune (New GTI/A3 APR tune out)

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      07-27-2014, 08:35 AM   #1
HX_Guy
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Too bad we can't get a real ECU tune (New GTI/A3 APR tune out)

I was pretty interested in getting the new Audi A3 prior to the M235i and had a 2011 A4 until the new car, so I still follow that community a bit. Crazy to see what they are getting with an ECU tune from the new motors in the GTI/A3.

Can you imagine the gains we'd see on both the 228i and M235i?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...0T-ECU-Upgrade!



210, 220 & 230 HP & 258 FT-LBS - Stock as reported by VW
235 HP & 270 FT-LBS of torque - Stock as mesured and estimated at the crank by APR
305 HP & 371 FT-LBS of torque +78 HP @ 3,950 RPM / +105 FT-LBS of Torque @ 3,700 RPM - 91 AKI / 95 RON
316 HP & 381 FT-LBS of torque +87 HP @ 4,050 RPM / +114 FT-LBS of Torque @ 3,800 RPM - 93 AKI / 98 RON
328 HP & 382 FT-LBS of torque +97 HP @ 4,150 RPM / +125 FT-LBS of Torque @ 3,900 RPM - 104 AKI / 108 RON

6.932 vs 5.656 - 0-60 MPH
14.283 vs 13.189 - Quarter Mile Time
97.10 vs 110.40 - Quarter Mile Trap Speed in MPH


Crazier is that the tests were done in a FWD GTI, the AWD acceleration is going to be nuts!
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      07-27-2014, 11:29 AM   #2
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Standard VAG cars are not known for their reliability - throwing an extra 70 horses into the mix for a car that is not built for it is not going to help there.

That said I am curious what APR will do with the new R - 375 hp on 93 octane? That will give it M3-beating acceleration.
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      07-27-2014, 12:05 PM   #3
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My wife had an APR tune on her GTI. The power delivery was awful. Plenty fast, but very peaky. There are so many better options for the N55. COBB, JB, Vishnu just to name a few. Not as many options for the N20, but it'll get there.
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      07-27-2014, 03:42 PM   #4
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I had a 2007 GTI and it was magnificent with an APR Stage 1 tune. I started to hate it after I decided to go to Stage 2. There wasn't much more power for the money and you really had to start working on all the suspension limits of the car to handle the power anyway.
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      07-28-2014, 01:48 AM   #5
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I've had tremendous results with some tuning & mods to my 2012 GTI - which certainly have included many handling upgrades (including a LSD...necessary).

Its a real hoot to drive - nice and smooth around town and on the highway when I just want to take it easy and absolutely nasty fast when I get on it. Handles better than I ever thought a FWD car could ever do. Many have been very surprised. After an extremely vigorous mountain run a coworker (passenger) who owns a 911 said he could not have done the run any better in his Porsche. (he was totally blown away if I don't say so...)

My BMW (2003 330i ZHP) is strictly naturally aspirated and is quick and handles well. I don't know much about BMW turbo engines and mod options - though I know the twin turbo 335s of a few years back could be easily tweaked to be very quick.

If I get a M235 in a few years I would definitely want to mod up the power a bit at some point...I usually drive cars stock for a year or more before I start modding...IMO its fun to take in steps. I enjoyed both my GTI and AUDI S4 pretty much mostly stock for 1 yr+ before starting to tweak. IMO tightening up the handling is at least as important if not more so then increasing power - though perhaps the BMW with the M235 will already have it performing well. I've not done a thing to my 330 except wear & tear replacing control arms and such - all stock....even the brakes - and its always been a capable car that still gives me grins every time I drive it.
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      07-28-2014, 02:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winoman View Post
I've had tremendous results with some tuning & mods to my 2012 GTI - which certainly have included many handling upgrades (including a LSD...necessary).

Its a real hoot to drive - nice and smooth around town and on the highway when I just want to take it easy and absolutely nasty fast when I get on it. Handles better than I ever thought a FWD car could ever do. Many have been very surprised. After an extremely vigorous mountain run a coworker (passenger) who owns a 911 said he could not have done the run any better in his Porsche. (he was totally blown away if I don't say so...)

My BMW (2003 330i ZHP) is strictly naturally aspirated and is quick and handles well. I don't know much about BMW turbo engines and mod options - though I know the twin turbo 335s of a few years back could be easily tweaked to be very quick.

If I get a M235 in a few years I would definitely want to mod up the power a bit at some point...I usually drive cars stock for a year or more before I start modding...IMO its fun to take in steps. I enjoyed both my GTI and AUDI S4 pretty much mostly stock for 1 yr+ before starting to tweak. IMO tightening up the handling is at least as important if not more so then increasing power - though perhaps the BMW with the M235 will already have it performing well. I've not done a thing to my 330 except wear & tear replacing control arms and such - all stock....even the brakes - and its always been a capable car that still gives me grins every time I drive it.
The point is, that BMW has the ECU locked and only a few like DINAN, or Alpina have access. Everything else is a piggy..
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      07-28-2014, 11:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
The point is, that BMW has the ECU locked and only a few like DINAN, or Alpina have access. Everything else is a piggy..
Incorrect. Cobb and Active Autowerks have N55 ECU flash tunes, there are others out there as well. A bit more expensive than APR, but very good tunes. I had an APR tune on my GTI and COBB on my 335. IMO COBB Accessport is a better product.

Please w3rkn, before you start calling me out for being an egomaniac or trolling...i'm just correcting an error in your last post so that people are not misinformed.
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      07-28-2014, 11:44 AM   #8
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Don't worry...here's the M235i's...

http://dinancars.com/product/d440-16...ries&mid=1183/

Bigger price tag tho lol
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      07-28-2014, 01:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremicium View Post
My wife had an APR tune on her GTI. The power delivery was awful. Plenty fast, but very peaky. There are so many better options for the N55. COBB, JB, Vishnu just to name a few. Not as many options for the N20, but it'll get there.
Stage 1 is like that, if you get the DP and Stage 2 it flattens everything out.
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      07-28-2014, 01:49 PM   #10
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flash tunes may be on the way soon. F8X and F2X ECU have been cracked? http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1015151
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      07-28-2014, 02:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremicium View Post
Incorrect. Cobb and Active Autowerks have N55 ECU flash tunes, there are others out there as well. A bit more expensive than APR, but very good tunes. I had an APR tune on my GTI and COBB on my 335. IMO COBB Accessport is a better product.

Please w3rkn, before you start calling me out for being an egomaniac or trolling...i'm just correcting an error in your last post so that people are not misinformed.
Cobb has an N55 tune? can you show me where?

I remember they dropping development cause they couldn't crack the new ecu encryption
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      07-28-2014, 08:19 PM   #12
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COBB, nor AA have a flash tune... excuse that troll, he's fond of me.
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      07-28-2014, 08:21 PM   #13
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I switched out of a 2011 GTI into the M235. My GTI was bone stock and within 2 years of ownership had to replace the radiator and the water pump twice. The brakes are also crap and the clutch can barely handle the stock torque.

Anyone upping the power on a GTI without supporting major upgrades to cooking, brakes and clutch is just asking for trouble IMO
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      07-28-2014, 08:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Cobb has an N55 tune? can you show me where?

I remember they dropping development cause they couldn't crack the new ecu encryption
I stand corrected wrt COBB. While they still make the AP V3 for older N55s, that doesn't do the guys in the 2addicts forum any good.
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      07-28-2014, 08:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremicium View Post
I stand corrected wrt COBB. While they still make the AP V3 for older N55s, that doesn't do the guys in the 2addicts forum any good.
ah i see N55 2011 or older...
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      07-28-2014, 08:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I switched out of a 2011 GTI into the M235. My GTI was bone stock and within 2 years of ownership had to replace the radiator and the water pump twice. The brakes are also crap and the clutch can barely handle the stock torque.

Anyone upping the power on a GTI without supporting major upgrades to cooking, brakes and clutch is just asking for trouble IMO
Exact same transition. 11 gti to an m235. My gti was completely stock and blew a water pump, a fuel pump, the clutch, and the flywheel, all before 60k miles.
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      07-28-2014, 09:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
The point is, that BMW has the ECU locked and only a few like DINAN, or Alpina have access. Everything else is a piggy..
Dinan is not a reflash, they use piggyback as well. They don't get access to the ecu from bmw, they just worked hard at cracking it. Couldn't this time around, though.
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      07-28-2014, 10:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
Dinan is not a reflash, they use piggyback as well. They don't get access to the ecu from bmw, they just worked hard at cracking it. Couldn't this time around, though.
Yes, for some cars^.
The N55 in the 235i & 135is is a locked ECU and only BMW friendlies (Alpina/DINAN/Turner/etc.. have access.

This is not news... but it seems people are getting close to cracking the ECU. Many of us are waiting...
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      07-28-2014, 10:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
Yes, for some cars^.
The N55 in the 235i & 135is is a locked ECU and only BMW friendlies (Alpina/DINAN/Turner/etc.. have access.

This is not news... but it seems people are getting close to cracking the ECU. Many of us are waiting...
The linked product is for Dinan's piggyback tune for the M235i. If they had access, they would have gone with an ecu flash instead. They have said they don't get access on several occasions and that they have engineers on staff that work at reverse engineering.
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      07-28-2014, 10:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
The linked product is for Dinan's piggyback tune for the M235i. If they had access, they would have gone with an ecu flash instead. They have said they don't get access on several occasions and that they have engineers on staff that work at reverse engineering.
and I quote:

Quote:
Plug-and-Play installation in two hours or less at any of the 180+ Dinan® Dealers. While firmware is loaded directly on the ECU the model specific software will need to be downloaded into the ECU by an authorized Dinan dealer after installation.
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      07-28-2014, 10:47 PM   #21
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They call their piggyback core hardware an ecu. It isn't the car ecu they're referring to. The piggyback core is flashed.
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      07-29-2014, 12:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
The point is, that BMW has the ECU locked and only a few like DINAN, or Alpina have access. Everything else is a piggy..
I was thinking about a piggyback unit. I haven't done much tuning in the past--anything wrong with that vs. a flash?
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