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      07-16-2014, 06:48 AM   #1
kevinlevrone
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My back to back test drive - M4 vs M5 vs M6 vs M6 Cabrio

Hello,

So today, like in the last 3 years, I had the pleasure to participate at the M Drive Tour, an event in which the invitees can drive all the current M cars for a few hours, including the new F80/F82 M3/M4, F10 M5, F12 M6, F13 M6 Cabrio. There is no instructor in the car while driving, you can do whatever you want as long as you follow the other cars.

As a disclaimer, I own a twin-turbo N54 335i manual transmission with upgraded turbos (RB Turbo), all the supporting mods and a Drexler limited slip differential and a Bilstein B12 suspension.

On to the new M4 now.

I drove this car with all the settings to Sport+ (including gearbox) on a variety of roads, including town, curvy B-roads, highway. The car really looks great (the M3 too), much better than in the pictures where the coupe can look a bit ugly to some (including me). However, it is not the case.

Suspension is good-to-great, it is quite bearable and even confortable even in Sport+. However, it does not have the extreme sharpness of the old M3. It does have some roll even in Sport+.

The cabin sound is quite loud and it doesn't have any mechanical sound. It's largely synthetized and it sounds nothing like the car sounds from outside. From outside the car sounds nice and loud but the sound is largely like a 335i with a loud sport exhaust, it is not very "special". However it does sound much better on the outside than on the inside. I wonder how can I stand the loud cabin sound on a 5-hour trip ? Not sure, really. In the M5, the sound is like half the volume compared to M4 !

Honestly, the old M3 sounded better but quite a bit less loud.

The steering feel is unfortunately nothing like the hydraulic steering. It is not better than the on the M235i, for example, it's just heavier but you don't feel any road imperfections, nothing, it's just heavy but non-communicative. On the old M3 the steering was worlds better than my car's steering, it was razor sharp, I can't describe how good it was.

The gearbox feels ok, with little to no lag on changing gears and is very smooth. The maximum lag was around a quarter of a second. In Sport+ there is a "jolt" that you feel on every upshift but this is a good thing.

The engine was a bit of a disappointment to be, and I am being honest here. It does not feel very powerful, at least after 5000RPM it feels like it reaches a "plateau" and stays there. However, it does not have ANY turbo lag that I could feel. Compared to a tuned N54, it feels somewhat less powerful at least until 4000RPM. Then it begins to pick up a little better but the plateau at 5000RPMs begins. Especially the 3rd and 4th gears are quite tamed, I was expecting an explosion of power like I read but it just wasn't there. According to my butt dyno the M4 was around 20% faster than the M235i I drove a week earlier. And the M4 was surprisingly close to the M235i in suspensiopn and steering feel, but the old M3 just felt much more direct and precise than both the new M4 and M235i.

Compared to M5/M6/M6 cabrio

The M4 is faster than M6 cabrio until around 5000RPM when the cabrio very slowly closes the gap but until then the cabrio really loses to the M4 (I drove the cabrio behind the M4 on the higway with a lot of accelerations).

The M5 and M6 are quite a bit faster than the M4, everytime the M4 accelerates the M5/M6 can close the gap quickly. In then M5 and M6 you don't feel any power shortage, the power is always there (but with quite a bit of turbo lag which is not felt on the M4).

So that was my review, thanks for reading. I am aware that my reviews causing quite a stir among forum members (sometimes leading the closing of threads) but I can assure you that I am being very honest in my observations. Many times reviewers tend to exaggerate things or have an agenda, my advice is to always test drive a car before purchasing !
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      07-16-2014, 07:09 AM   #2
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Thanks for the review

There is always at least one avocado in a sea of oranges.

I find two things odd

- one, that the m235, a car that traps more than 10 mph slower than any tested m3/4, feels almost as fast as an m3/4
- two, that the e90 suspension is superior with less roll. Not possible, I'm sorry.

Regardless, thanks for taking the time. No one car is perfect for everyone
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      07-16-2014, 07:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Thanks for the review

There is always at least one avocado in a sea of oranges.

I find two things odd

- one, that the m235, a car that traps more than 10 mph slower than any tested m3/4, feels almost as fast as an m3/4
- two, that the e90 suspension is superior with less roll. Not possible, I'm sorry.

Regardless, thanks for taking the time. No one car is perfect for everyone
In no way the M235i feels as fast as the M4, but around 20% slower. This is 1/5, it's not "almost as fast". However, the steering and suspension does feel very similar.

The e90 suspension does not have less body roll. It's just much sharper, I think it's the hydraulic steering (it also has a very direct steering rack) and front linkage/bushings that gives this feeling, I'm not sure.
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      07-16-2014, 07:49 AM   #4
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Not as good as the other review from journalist and actual owners. So the old m3 had more of an extreme sharpness in feel and steering huh?
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      07-16-2014, 08:01 AM   #5
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Thanks for the review. I appreciate that not all people will have the same opinion.

Just a question regarding the suspension. You mention that there is less body roll in the old m3 - when was the last time you drove the e92 m3? Please don't take this the wrong way but could you 'actually' comparing it to the Bilstein suspension you have on your 335i?
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      07-16-2014, 08:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa12 View Post
Just a question regarding the suspension. You mention that there is less body roll in the old m3 - when was the last time you drove the e92 m3? Please don't take this the wrong way but could you 'actually' comparing it to the Bilstein suspension you have on your 335i?
I am sorry, it was wrongly understood. There is not less body roll on the old M3, it's just that the old M3 feels much more precise and direct. This is a function of suspension, steering, linkage, bushings and other stuff. When I drove the old M3, I was amazed at how precise and "different" it was compared to a regular 3-series. The suspension on the new M4 is very very similar to the one in the M5 and M6. A bit more relaxed.

I drove the old M3 last time a year ago. And my car does have significantly more body roll than both the old and new M3
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      07-16-2014, 08:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
I am sorry, it was wrongly understood. There is not less body roll on the old M3, it's just that the old M3 feels much more precise and direct. This is a function of suspension, steering, linkage, bushings and other stuff. When I drove the old M3, I was amazed at how precise and "different" it was compared to a regular 3-series. The suspension on the new M4 is very very similar to the one in the M5 and M6. A bit more relaxed.

I drove the old M3 last time a year ago. And my car does have significantly more body roll than both the old and new M3
Wait a second, your comparing the new m3/4 to old m3 that you drove a year ago? Some how you still can remember body roll and stiff feeling? Lmfao now that is som funny ass shit, enjoy your m235.
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      07-16-2014, 08:29 AM   #8
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I think one of the great advancements made on the F8X is on the suspension side. It's more planted and also more subtle, as well as a lot sharper on turn in with no understeer. The new car is much more rigid with the subframe mounted directly to the body, with no rubber bushings.

But I guess it might be difficult to pick up just how different the cars are driving in a towed line with other cars.
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      07-16-2014, 08:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Thanks for the review

There is always at least one avocado in a sea of oranges.

I find two things odd

- one, that the m235, a car that traps more than 10 mph slower than any tested m3/4, feels almost as fast as an m3/4
- two, that the e90 suspension is superior with less roll. Not possible, I'm sorry.

Regardless, thanks for taking the time. No one car is perfect for everyone
He does have aftermarket suspension
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      07-16-2014, 08:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa View Post
Wait a second, your comparing the new m3/4 to old m3 that you drove a year ago? Some how you still can remember body roll and stiff feeling? Lmfao now that is som funny ass shit, enjoy your m235.
Sorry, I don't have an M235i, i just drove one for a few hours a few days ago.
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      07-16-2014, 08:55 AM   #11
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Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all that BS, but there could only be so much variation between reviews.

After reading tens of "professional" reviews and hearing reviews from friends, one of which is a professional driver, the things that have a good chance at sucking are the sound of the f8x's and some strong arguments about traction for the sake of 0-60 times. Things that don't have a good chance at sucking are; Engine, Chassis, Handling, Steering and as quoted from a friend who drove the car "it's as visceral as an M should be and then some..."

I'm not saying you could only mention those, but when you stray so far off into the oblivion trying to degrade the car, it makes your biases fairly obvious.

For example, not everyone has to love Black Sabbath, but when you listen to their music, you can tell immediately that they are a rock band. If someone were to come up to you and tell you that they are a techno, dance group you would disagree on principle alone.

Or,

Even though Clarkson hates Porsches, and Hammond loves them, both agree that they are amazing machines. I'm trying to point out the degree of variation, though differences exist, there is still a margin to abide by. If in fact, you're doing a review truthfully and unbiased.


There are somethings most people would agree on, like the engine of the f8x. Calling it less powerful than previous engines, when it's literally one of the most torquey engines they've ever put together, is just kinda like "c'mon man". You don't have to like it, and I prefer you didn't because it would make it more of an outcast, but don't come on here and write a load of biased vile because they're guys on this forum way smarter than you or me who will shoot it down.

Just saying'...
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      07-16-2014, 08:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
He does have aftermarket suspension
on his 335i. I read it as him comparing the f80 to an e92 m3.

The new m3 has a far stiffer chassis with a solid mounted subframe and far less understeer than the e92 per every professional track review I have read.

That said, it sounds like KLevrone was not impressed with the handling, which is the only thing IMO to take away from his comments.

The f80 is in no way inferior handling wise to the e92, which was very good handling car in its own right.
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      07-16-2014, 09:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serieD View Post
Just saying'...
Sorry, but I'm not sure what you are saying. I wrote what I felt, I am not biased in any way, I don't have any of the cars I mentioned in my review. Can I be wrong ? Of course, especially for die-hard BMW fans I am a BMW fan but I feel that I should write my own opinion regardless if it upsets you or not.

I did not say the M3/M4 is not a good car, and I did not say the M4 engine was less powerful than previous engines, please read carefully. You should not have to sustain your opinions with wrong facts.
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      07-16-2014, 09:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
Sorry, but I'm not sure what you are saying. I wrote what I felt, I am not biased in any way, I don't have any of the cars I mentioned in my review. Can I be wrong ? Of course, especially for die-hard BMW fans I am a BMW fan but I feel that I should write my own opinion regardless if it upsets you or not.

I did not say the M3/M4 is not a good car, and I did not say the M4 engine was less powerful than previous engines, please read carefully. You should not have to sustain your opinions with wrong facts.
No one is trying to call you out except your opinion is a few vs 100's of people stating facts (with more knowdlege and M ownership). When you come in here and explain your experience of the chasis and handling of the m3/m4 vs the e92m that you drove once a year ago just shows how biast your point of view is. Your opionion is fine, we are just telling you that your wrong lmao
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      07-16-2014, 09:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa View Post
No one is trying to call you out except your opinion is a few vs 100's of people stating facts (with more knowdlege and M ownership). When you come in here and explain your experience of the chasis and handling of the m3/m4 vs the e92m that you drove once a year ago just shows how biast your point of view is. Your opionion is fine, we are just telling you that your wrong lmao
I'm sorry, but who mentioned something about handling ? I wrote how the suspension feels, not how the car handles. I did not have the chance to drive the car on a track. So many people are just not reading carefully and then quickly throw in a "lmao" cliche that only makes me lmao seeing their disproportionate answer defending...not sure what

I'm sorry, but you can't tell me that how I feel about a car while actually driving it, is "wrong". It's just how I feel and I described it in my review. I am sure it's not an universal truth, but I didn't intend it to be. It's just a view from someone who spent a few hours with the car.
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      07-16-2014, 09:36 AM   #16
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Lol I find it funny when someone says your opinion is wrong vs others I tend to agree with. Jeez give him a break.
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      07-16-2014, 09:50 AM   #17
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Thank you for the review. It's been said by most reviewers that the adaptive suspension is comfortable in sport+, something that was seldom or never heard about the E9X M3 so I'm not surprised if this leave to an overall less sharp feel. As other here it's not something I like to hear obviously but it doesn't surprise me that someone felt that. Same with the steering, it's been reported by most that it lacks the level of feedback you get in the E9X M3. So your observations sounds legit and not out of the ordinary to me in the scenario of jumping from your car into the new vs the old M3. Doesn't matter how long ago it was. You would remember the level of difference you felt.

Not something I like to hear and while I'm not telling you that you are "wrong" I hope I will feel less of a loss of sharpness in the chassi with the passive suspension. The adaptive suspension is of a newer generation, likely much "improved" which mean more filtering of road imperfections, the passive suspension is hopefully much more like the old one, I 'll know soon enough
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      07-16-2014, 10:02 AM   #18
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IMHO a great review and good to compare old M3 vs new M3-4

The loss off sharpness or agility M3-M4 is somehow logical;

1 The increased wheelbase
2 More softer suspension setup
3 EPS

Now a E92 M3 (wich I owned for 3 years) is in NO WAY agile compared to my current 1M, let alone an M4. Here shines the shorter wheelbase perfectly.

Advevo had the same experience when driving the M4
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      07-16-2014, 10:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
Hello,

The engine was a bit of a disappointment to be, and I am being honest here. It does not feel very powerful, at least after 5000RPM it feels like it reaches a "plateau" and stays there. However, it does not have ANY turbo lag that I could feel. Compared to a tuned N54, it feels somewhat less powerful at least until 4000RPM. Then it begins to pick up a little better but the plateau at 5000RPMs begins. Especially the 3rd and 4th gears are quite tamed, I was expecting an explosion of power like I read but it just wasn't there. According to my butt dyno the M4 was around 20% faster than the M235i I drove a week earlier. And the M4 was surprisingly close to the M235i in suspensiopn and steering feel, but the old M3 just felt much more direct and precise than both the new M4 and M235i.
If you actually read any reviews, the power is distributed pretty evenly, making it more linear. I don't know who said there was an explosion of power? That would be the exact opposite of what BMW was shooting for with the Anti-lag wouldnt it?
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      07-16-2014, 10:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
Sorry, but I'm not sure what you are saying. I wrote what I felt, I am not biased in any way, I don't have any of the cars I mentioned in my review. Can I be wrong ? Of course, especially for die-hard BMW fans I am a BMW fan but I feel that I should write my own opinion regardless if it upsets you or not.

I did not say the M3/M4 is not a good car, and I did not say the M4 engine was less powerful than previous engines, please read carefully. You should not have to sustain your opinions with wrong facts.
I'm not upset. This is why I come to the forums. Great debate and conversation! Nothing wrong with that my man.
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      07-16-2014, 10:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Advevo had the same experience when driving the M4
I searched and found that post and indeed the other forum user felt just like me about the suspension/feel:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...45&postcount=8

It indeed feels very very similar to the M5/M6 in suspension and steering feel. The only difference that I found in my driving session is in car control after sudden steering movements (much easier in the M4, the M5/M6 have a tendency to snap back) and braking ability (more linear and better in the M4 - although I would prefer more assisted brakes like in the M5 - the car feels a bit heavy when braking).
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      07-16-2014, 10:29 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serieD View Post
If you actually read any reviews, the power is distributed pretty evenly, making it more linear. I don't know who said there was an explosion of power? That would be the exact opposite of what BMW was shooting for with the Anti-lag wouldnt it?
I didn't mean "an explosion of power" in the sense that power would come on suddenly, but 3rd gear is a gear in which you really have the opportunity to gauge a car's raw power because it's the first gear in which the wheel spin is minimal (with good tires). The M5 in 3rd gear just delivers as much power as you can safely handle, leaves you thinking "ok, that's enough power for me" while the M4 leaves you wanting more, especially when reaching that power plateau at 5000RPM and noticing that the car doesn't push you into the seat as hard when it really should given the performance until that RPM.
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