Armed Resource Officer on Campus during shooting

[bimmer456]

So the armed officer received flac for not entering the campus to confront the shooter but staying outside the campus. That being said, the former student had an AR-15 and he likely had only a handgun, what do you guys think, could he or should he have done more?

[are0lies]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

So the armed officer received flac for not entering the campus to confront the shooter but staying outside the campus. That being said, the former student had an AR-15 and he likely had only a handgun, what do you guys think, could he or should he have done more?

Given hindsight, look at what happened during that bank holdup in Los Angeles. Police had mostly automatic pistols and shotguns, and had to source out for automatic rifles to counter what was being used against them. Now, I believe, most LEOs carry AR-15s.

[kprocivic]

I have no problem with him.

[Uber Commuter]

It goes both ways - should a resource officer on-site take on the code of chivalry and "put himself to the danger" when everyone else is running away? Well, it's easy for everyone sitting back and armchair gaming it to say yes, he should. That's why he's there.

But then again; do cops on normal patrol ever enter a shooting scenario without backup? generally no, that's not their protocol is it? My understanding is no cop runs into an active shooter scenario until back-up arrives unless he/she is already involved, but maybe I am wrong.

This is why the whole "Arm the teachers" argument is ludicrous... At best, you might get lucky if the teacher in the room is armed as a shooter opens fire. But the most likely scenario is friendly fire ruining multiple lives or armed teachers running from the scene with their kids.

[TrevorM3]

he is getting paid very well, to do his godam job. Which he didn't do.

Now he resigns, like a real coward. I hope he loses his pension and is charged with something.

If he was a volunteer, i would have had no problem with him standing outside and jerking his dick. But he was getting paid. Once you put on that uniform, you have to be willing to risk it all.

[9krpmrx8]

Yeah you don't know how a person is going to react until they are actually in a live fire situation. Training will only get you so far. But yeah it's easy for people to judge when they have never been in a situation like that.

[JuanK20]

I can't knock the man for freezing up in the heat of the moment, none of us have ever been in that situation, but it is clear that he definitely did not do his job.

Keep in mind that 2 UNARMED gym teachers headed towards the gunfire instead of running and lost their lives trying to help.

[RickFLM4]

He was a trained veteran LEO. It seems he was riding out his time until retirement with what he thought was a cushy job. Yes, he can and should have done more. Police departments with on-site resource officers need to evaluate whether or not the people they are using are capable of the job if duty calls.

[RABAUKE]

During the Columbine shooting the police followed their procedures of the day which were to secure the perimeter and wait for tactical officers to arrive, law enforcement were heavily criticized for waiting outside while school kids were being killed inside.

Tactics and training changed all over North America after that, police adopted techniques for dealing with active shooters, which ideally involved teams of 4 officers moving in a diamond formation quickly towards the shooter and neutralizing the threat.

This officer was suspended and has since quite as I understand. We can all armchair quarterback this officers decision. Having been a police officer for 30+ years in a large urban centre I'd like to think back-up officers would be close by, which still means a few minutes in a best case scenario. The officer could have gone in to confront the threat, but ultimately he has to live with his decision. Police train for lots of various situations, and one thing folks have to keep in mind is that even if you are trained and equipped you still have limitations in your abilities. Some officers are much better with tactics than others, some are more experienced and may be more fit and capable.

Just my two cents.

[TomD335xicoupe]

No one on this forum knows what actually happened so your opinions are extremely suspect. Yes I saw what the chief said but again no one knows what his motivations may be or if he even knows what was happening real time.
Could he have been a coward and shit himself yep and if so would not be the first time LOE makes a cowardly decision. Could he have been following his training assessing the situation, reporting situational changes and tactical opportunities from a safe vantage to his support teams so they can be most effective instead of loosing that opportunity I do not know what he was thinking or why he made the decision he made, he and those families involved have to live with it. I hope he made the decision with the best intentions for the situation. I can understand the heated opinions from persons with no personal experience in this arena especially when supported by comments made by his Chief, but BUT but I can not speak for his Chiefs intentions or decision as to why he would make those comments especially during such a tragic period. Those of you who have done the job will clearly understand that point of view.

[ASAP]

he messed up... simple as that

[fravel]

Originally Posted by JuanK20

Keep in mind that 2 UNARMED gym teachers headed towards the gunfire instead of running and lost their lives trying to help.

This.

Dude is a coward. He was the only person on campus that had any hope of stopping shooter when it started, and he opted to let better men die protecting kids while he hid outside.

[jaye944]

just my 2c's

That was his job, coward is what I believe some have been saying and I wouldn't disagree with it. He's going to have to live with the fact that SOME if not ALL of those deaths may have been avoided.

I guess the clue is in his job title "Armed Response Officer" wheat was he thinking he was going to be involved in ?

Also the difference between him and the kid, he is (or supposed to be) trained.

If my daughter was in there, gun or no gun you would have been able to stop me going in.

I would also like to think regardless of my own life, I would have gone in, I think most guy's (and women) would have that attitude.

A lot of good cops out there and a lot of bullying psycho's

[Poiseuille]

The three 18-year-old Americans on the train in Arras France were unarmed, and they weren't getting paid. They knew what to do.

[overcoil]

The boy who was in the jrROTC that got killed, they say he stayed back and kept the door open so people could run out. Peter Wang is a hero.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by TomD335xicoupe

No one on this forum knows what actually happened so your opinions are extremely suspect. Yes I saw what the chief said but again no one knows what his motivations may be or if he even knows what was happening real time.
Could he have been a coward and shit himself yep and if so would not be the first time LOE makes a cowardly decision. Could he have been following his training assessing the situation, reporting situational changes and tactical opportunities from a safe vantage to his support teams so they can be most effective instead of loosing that opportunity I do not know what he was thinking or why he made the decision he made, he and those families involved have to live with it. I hope he made the decision with the best intentions for the situation. I can understand the heated opinions from persons with no personal experience in this arena especially when supported by comments made by his Chief, but BUT but I can not speak for his Chiefs intentions or decision as to why he would make those comments especially during such a tragic period. Those of you who have done the job will clearly understand that point of view.

It was on videotape, the Chief spoke directly about what happened, and the officer resigned. Unless you are sure there is a misinformation campaign, not sure why some of the opinions in this threads are extremely suspect.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

It was on videotape, the Chief spoke directly about what happened, and the officer resigned. Unless you are sure there is a misinformation campaign, not sure why some of the opinions in this threads are extremely suspect.

exactly, they have the idiot on tape.


His job as a LEO at that school was to put his life on the line that day. he did not. He should be held accountable.

[9krpmrx8]

Yeah you can't train balls and for the most part, you don't know if you really have them until shit gets real. Some of these kids and teachers are real heroes. But I feel bad for this guy and he will live with this the rest of his life. Most who are criticizing him would not have done anything either.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

Yeah you can't train balls and for the most part, you don't know if you really have them until shit gets real. Some of these kids and teachers are real heroes. But I feel bad for this guy and he will live with this the rest of his life. Most who are criticizing him would not have done anything either.

we aren't in uniform getting paid. maybe thats why.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

Yeah you can't train balls and for the most part, you don't know if you really have them until shit gets real. Some of these kids and teachers are real heroes. But I feel bad for this guy and he will live with this the rest of his life. Most who are criticizing him would not have done anything either.

Except it was his job to do something! The rest of us recognize the inherent danger in such a job and chose other careers either to avoid the danger, because we are better at something else or some combination thereof. We aren’t all claiming we would have stopped the killer and been the bravest person ever. We are saying there was a guy there who had a job to at least try to stop the killer and he didn’t do his job. Big difference.

[9krpmrx8]

Yes, he did not do his duty, I agree. But to presume all deputies are trained or able to confront an armed individual in a situation like this is naive.

I work with a lot of LEO's who work in Juvenile probation or as resource officers and most have never experienced any live situations on duty and they receive basically no training post academy that would help them in a situation like this.

But it's tough, finding people that can be good resource officers and be the type of officer you want in a situation like this is very hard.

[RickFLM4]

So what should they be presumed to be able to handle?