F1 2022: Brazilian GP - São Paulo (Nov 13)

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

Ocon's season with Alonso should reinforce that no?

I guess I don’t get this statement. I know you guys love Alonso, but I don’t see it. He’s borderline overrated since his comeback and is one of the biggest whiners IMO. He’s losing to Ocon in the standings so I’m sure the battles aren’t all Ocon’s fault. Ocon, Gasly and even Riccardo have all managed to get a win and Alonso has only managed to get one podium in that time frame since his comeback? Dude needs to check his ego, whine less and concentrate on driving more. I don’t see it getting any better with his move to AM, but we’ll obviously see next year.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Sophie Kumpen is generally known to be a genuinely kind person. Really. Suddenly posting an Instagram comment like that - although only briefly online - suggests IMHO that, on a personal level, the relationship between the Verstappens and Perez is broken beyond repair. But the show must go on.

The press has picked up the story: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ting-wife.html ("F1 world champion Max Verstappen's mum accuses his Red Bull teammate Sergio Perez of cheating on his WIFE before deleting post - as fight over controversial Brazil GP finish explodes").

If sponsors would start to strongly question Red Bull Racing about the turn of events, the fate of Perez may get sealed. For now: just wave and smile. Dutch expression: "Wie geschoren wordt, moet stilzitten" = when you're being shaved, you got to sit still (meaning: hunker down until the storm has settled).

From just a casual observer (me), it isn't hard to see RB will pretty much always put Max first above anyone because he is their future, with god knows how ever many championships he can still win.

I constantly get the feeling that Perez, with the car he had this year, should have done better, and he should be clear in 2nd after the initial few races when Ferrari started... well Ferraring themselves constantly. Now, regardless of the rumors Perez may have just sank his only shot at staying relevant.

Some times, staying 2nd to a driver like Max, being there to support is far better than disappearing and forgotten in a year. This quite possibility might have just happened because Perez made a bold decision.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by minn19

I guess I don’t get this statement. I know you guys love Alonso, but I don’t see it. He’s borderline overrated since his comeback and is one of the biggest whiners IMO. He’s losing to Ocon in the standings so I’m sure the battles aren’t all Ocon’s fault. Ocon, Gasly and even Riccardo have all managed to get a win and Alonso has only managed to get one podium in that time frame since his comeback? Dude needs to check his ego, whine less and concentrate on driving more. I don’t see it getting any better with his move to AM, but we’ll obviously see next year.

Well there is always a minority opinion. The experts think otherwise. Certainly all the teams he's driven for think otherwise too in how much they decided to pay him. I do not think that you've actually watched all the battles nor are you aware of the DNF's he's had, nor did you watch the Hungary race Ocon won, LOL, because how can you not know if not for Alonso, most likely Ocon would not have won. The consensus is Ocon races him harder (to the detriment of the team), which is validated by Ocon's history of battles with his previous team mates. The penalty in Brazil he did admit making a mistake. Why do you think Alpine (a French team) thought it fit to give Ocon(a Frenchman) a Team order in Brazil? An F1 Driver having a super ego? That's not surprising one bit.

[M5Rick]

Oh I love F1 and all it's intricacies on and off the track, the social media snowflakes are having a wondrous time

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by NYG

It was 100% a racing incident. Arguing that Max deserved a time penalty is silly but arguing that Max deserved penalty points is just bias to the extreme.

This is the crux of the whole matter, why did Max get that time penalty.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Oh I love F1 and all its intricacies on and off the track

Helmut Marko told ORF (Austrian Broadcasting Corporation) during the Brazil race weekend: "We are in talks [with] Ricciardo. But that’s primarily the function of a reserve driver, simulator driver and various promotional appearances, without us making a fixed commitment regarding a [racing cockpit]."
(https://www.planetf1.com/news/daniel...-reserve-role/)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Helmut Marko told ORF (Austrian Broadcasting Corporation) during the Brazil race weekend: "We are in talks [with] Ricciardo. But that’s primarily the function of a reserve driver, simulator driver and various promotional appearances, without us making a fixed commitment regarding a [racing cockpit]."
(https://www.planetf1.com/news/daniel...-reserve-role/)

Interesting that from Marko as Lawson has already been confirmed as reserve driver for '23.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...JROVfv7c7.html

[Marcoose]

The white, privileged, rich, successful driver camp dragging another driver’s family through the mud. Deplorable.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Interesting that from Marko as Lawson has already been confirmed as reserve driver for '23.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...JROVfv7c7.html

Time will tell what Red Bull Racing decided/decides about Perez: keep him on board for 2023 or early exit after the forthcoming Abu Dhabi race ?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Time will tell what Red Bull Racing decided/decides about Perez: keep him on board for 2023 or early exit after the forthcoming Abu Dhabi race ?

Tricky Danny may have the last laugh.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

Well there is always a minority opinion. The experts think otherwise. Certainly all the teams he's driven for think otherwise too in how much they decided to pay him. I do not think that you've actually watched all the battles nor are you aware of the DNF's he's had, nor did you watch the Hungary race Ocon won, LOL, because how can you not know if not for Alonso, most likely Ocon would not have won. The consensus is Ocon races him harder (to the detriment of the team), which is validated by Ocon's history of battles with his previous team mates. The penalty in Brazil he did admit making a mistake. Why do you think Alpine (a French team) thought it fit to give Ocon(a Frenchman) a Team order in Brazil? An F1 Driver having a super ego? That's not surprising one bit.

I’m aware of all of that, most here only care about the results at the end, well for some. Still, one podium since the comeback………….

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

The white, privileged, rich, successful driver camp dragging another driver’s family through the mud. Deplorable.

It's OK to express the opinion that the "and then in the evening cheating on his wife" comment briefly posted by, apparently, Verstappen's mother, was inappropriate. Personally I also agree with that opinion.

But do leave the racial aspect out of it: it is unrelated to that Verstappen/Perez discussion and uncalled for.

Forum rules:

"13) NO RACISM ALLOWED. No posts which disparage any groups based on race or religion allowed. Most people who decide to post racist and hateful posts follow-up with some diatribe on freedom of speech. Please remember this is a BMW forum designed for all BMW fans, regardless of race, religion or any other difference. Period. The End."

[GuidoK]

I think that tweet from Sophie Kumpen is pretty low if she actually wrote that.
Checo's private affairs are...his private affairs.
I assume Sophie wasn't there in the bedroom with Checo, so it's still speculation, and with such a tweet, you're hurting Checo's wife even more. She has nothing to do with this.
For sure it's not helping the situation at hand.

However I can understand Max' frustration about Monaco.
I mean he has a contract with RB, and back then, so had Checo a brand new contract, he signed in Monaco before the race.
Obviously no one here knows the content of those contracts, but I'm sure in there it says that Max is the main/first driver (otherwise Max wouldn't have signed for so long).
So if Max is convinced that Checo crashed for his own gain, that would be in direct conflict with the agreements they just made.
Horner and Marko failed to solve this situation sufficiently back then and now they paid the price for that.
Obviously Max showed this year (and last year) that he's way way above Checo when it comes to drivers skills, so it's really up to RB how they solve these kinds of issues.
If you have a legend performer, you need a submissive 2nd violin. That's why Bottas was placed next to Hamilton, Barichello next to Schumacher, Berger next to Senna and that's Checo's role next to Max.
Maybe Checo was a bit too overconfident in his role because he just signed his new contract...
So I wonder how this will go with Mercedes, especially if they manage to get a more competitive car next year.
Obviously Russel is the 2nd driver next to Hamilton and fur sure something will have been put down in his contract about this. It was Russel who asked on the radio "are we racing or not" (him and Lewis). A first driver (HAM, VER, etc etc) would never ask that question.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

However I can understand Max' frustration about Monaco.
I mean he has a contract with RB, and back then, so had Checo a brand new contract, he signed in Monaco before the race.
[...]
Maybe Checo was a bit too overconfident in his role because he just signed his new contract...

Perez reduced the gap to Verstappen with his Monaco race win:

WDC before the Monaco race weekend:

1. VER 110
2. LEC 104
3. PER 85
4. RUS 74
5. SAI 65
6. HAM 46

WDC after the Monaco race weekend:

1. VER 125
2. LEC 116
3. PER 110
4. RUS 84
5. SAI 83
6. HAM 50

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Perez reduced the gap to Verstappen with his Monaco race win:

WDC before the Monaco race weekend:

1. VER 110
2. LEC 104
3. PER 85
4. RUS 74
5. SAI 65
6. HAM 46

WDC after the Monaco race weekend:

1. VER 125
2. LEC 116
3. PER 110
4. RUS 84
5. SAI 83
6. HAM 50

Attachment 3034269

He did, but did anybody really think he was going to keep pace with Max? Barring DNFs of course.

[minn19]

Autobacs, just looked at 21. I don’t remember as well how that whole season went, but Ocon had one more DNF and Alonso still only beat him by seven points. While Gasly and Ric beat him pretty big point margins that year.

At least Alpine beat Mclaren this year in the constructors title. So there is that. He is making 3-4 times more than Ocon and potentially other young up and comers, he deserves a little more scrutiny/criticism. I don’t blame Alpine for looking elsewhere, too bad they handled about as poorly as they possibly could.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Uh-oh, what happened in Monaco, didn't stay in Monaco. Gloves are off now down at camp Verstappen.

Out of the blue, responding to an Instagram post lambasting her son about the Brazil race, Verstappen's mother interfered in the discussion with a - subsequently deleted - reply calling out Perez for cheating on his wife in Monaco: "and then in the evening cheating on his wife". If that post is legit, then it seems that the divide is running deeper than perceived so far.

Is Verstappen's wrath caused either by Perez compromising his Monaco Q3 purple sectors lap as a result of a controversial spin OR Perez winning the Monaco race the next day OR Perez allegedly cheating on his wife after the Monaco race OR all of that OR none of that ?

For sure Marko, Horner and media trainers will have some extra home work this week.

Attachment 3033921

Attachment 3033922

Regardless of what is happening right now or if it's true - Sophie should have never made that comment. Terrible move and does more damage to her son than not saying anything at all.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

The white, privileged, rich, successful driver camp dragging another driver’s family through the mud. Deplorable.

What does being white have to do with anything?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

I guess I don’t get this statement. I know you guys love Alonso, but I don’t see it. He’s borderline overrated since his comeback and is one of the biggest whiners IMO. He’s losing to Ocon in the standings so I’m sure the battles aren’t all Ocon’s fault. Ocon, Gasly and even Riccardo have all managed to get a win and Alonso has only managed to get one podium in that time frame since his comeback? Dude needs to check his ego, whine less and concentrate on driving more. I don’t see it getting any better with his move to AM, but we’ll obviously see next year.

I figured everyone was a fan of Alonso.

I don't think he's overrated at all - once he got the R25, he destroyed prime Schumacher/Ferrari.

He's on a similar level to Ric in terms of making absolutely atrocious business decisions but as a driver, he's easily one of the greatest of all time with a soiled resume because of those moves.

Ocon is ahead of Alonso for very obvious reasons and none of them are skill related. Fernando is 41 years old - he is still capable of winning a championship on the right team. I'm confident that Ocon will never win a championship or come close to it.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

I figured everyone was a fan of Alonso.

I don't think he's overrated at all - once he got the R25, he destroyed prime Schumacher/Ferrari.

He's on a similar level to Ric in terms of making absolutely atrocious business decisions but as a driver, he's easily one of the greatest of all time with a soiled resume because of those moves.

Ocon is ahead of Alonso for very obvious reasons and none of them are skill related. Fernando is 41 years old - he is still capable of winning a championship on the right team. I'm confident that Ocon will never win a championship or come close to it.

Notice, I did qualify that all of my opinions are since his comeback. He isn’t worth what he’s getting paid. He is probably one of the greatest, but I’ve never been a fan, his ego/personality has always rubbed the wrong way. Like most F1 drivers he can do no wrong and everyone else to blame. He just seems to always have taken it to another level IMO.

[br438]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

To be fair, they have been consistent. They have been penalizing most things. Racing incident/clean racing is pretty much dead in this era.

Moving forward, everyone should expect a penalty if any driver tags another driver.

Ha! true - but both should have been penalized in that case.

Racing - the newest victim of the Cost Cap Killer (boo, waahh... etc. hahahahahaa)

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

Notice, I did qualify that all of my opinions are since his comeback. He isn’t worth what he’s getting paid. He is probably one of the greatest, but I’ve never been a fan, his ego/personality has always rubbed the wrong way. Like most F1 drivers he can do no wrong and everyone else to blame. He just seems to always have taken it to another level IMO.

True but he's been on Alpine and now he's going to Aston Martin.

Alpine certainly has made some significant steps to the front but I don't see either of those teams being contenders anytime soon. AM is probably less likely considering they're a customer team for engines.

I'd assume Alonso is worth the money for developing the car. If you've got mediocre/inexperienced drivers, it's hard to know whether the car is being driven at it's potential and where the weaknesses are.