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      05-31-2019, 04:24 PM   #1
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Redacted Mueller Report, Did You Read It?

In 32 hours after it came out, i read it. All 400+ pages.

If you haven't read it, stop bitching. It's clear, it's consistent. Trump needs to be prosecuted.

Anyone disagreeing with me, please, show me proof.
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      05-31-2019, 04:39 PM   #2
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Lol @ proof, just cheerleaders, they don't care for truth, proof or logic.
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      05-31-2019, 04:45 PM   #3
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Mueller submitted what charges?

Short thread.
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      05-31-2019, 04:49 PM   #4
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Well in the US, people are innocent until proven guilty, and therefore the onus is on you to justify the need for prosecution. So why don't you please provide the specific quotes/sections that you think warrant prosecution. Please also specify the specific laws that are broken in the conduct you intend to quote.

My point in challenging you isn't to show you that he shouldn't be prosecuted. It's to highlight the point that most people on the investigative team were slightly biased against trump personally, so if there was a remote chance that there was sufficient evidence to justify a charge based on a specific rule/law that was broken, they would have pursued it. Things that he has done that are not nice or icky do not qualify for prosecution and no one is saying that he didn't do things that were immoral or unpresidential, just that he didn't do enough to have a clear and shut case against him.
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      05-31-2019, 04:54 PM   #5
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Meh...if Hillary wasn't prosecuted why should Trump be.

Never forget, what's good for the goose...
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      05-31-2019, 04:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
Well in the US, people are innocent until proven guilty, and therefore the onus is on you to justify the need for prosecution. So why don't you please provide the specific quotes/sections that you think warrant prosecution. Please also specify the specific laws that are broken in the conduct you intend to quote.

My point in challenging you isn't to show you that he shouldn't be prosecuted. It's to highlight the point that most people on the investigative team were slightly biased against trump personally, so if there was a remote chance that there was sufficient evidence to justify a charge based on a specific rule/law that was broken, they would have pursued it. Things that he has done that are not nice or icky do not qualify for prosecution and no one is saying that he didn't do things that were immoral or unpresidential, just that he didn't do enough to have a clear and shut case against him.
This is basically what I got out of the report as well. I didn't read it in entirety, but perused a decent amount.

Is Trump slimy? Yup. Is he a jerk, asshole, and all around bad person? Yup, probably that as well. Did he skirt the law and do things that were immoral and wrong? Yeah, likely he did.

Did he commit a crime where evidence shows that he could be convicted without reasonable doubt in a court of law? The report says no.

Just because someone is a bad person, a slime ball, or is a jerk, doesn't make him a criminal. Heck, in the USA, even if he did commit a crime but the DA doesn't think there is enough evidence to convict, he won't go to trial. This is the same as any other person.

----

When Jessie Smollett is charged with a crime, then get back to me on Trump.



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      05-31-2019, 05:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Did he commit a crime where evidence shows that he could be convicted without reasonable doubt in a court of law? The report says no.
That's not what it says, and its chief author broke silence this week to emphasize the point.
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      05-31-2019, 05:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Mueller submitted what charges?

Short thread.
As Mueller said, a sitting president can't be charged. You'd know if you had read the report.
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      05-31-2019, 05:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
Well in the US, people are innocent until proven guilty, and therefore the onus is on you to justify the need for prosecution. So why don't you please provide the specific quotes/sections that you think warrant prosecution. Please also specify the specific laws that are broken in the conduct you intend to quote.

My point in challenging you isn't to show you that he shouldn't be prosecuted. It's to highlight the point that most people on the investigative team were slightly biased against trump personally, so if there was a remote chance that there was sufficient evidence to justify a charge based on a specific rule/law that was broken, they would have pursued it. Things that he has done that are not nice or icky do not qualify for prosecution and no one is saying that he didn't do things that were immoral or unpresidential, just that he didn't do enough to have a clear and shut case against him.
If you read at least the second part of the report, you'd know.

I'm not an American, i don't like soundbyte journalism. I don't understand how you all haven't read it. You're all weird.
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      05-31-2019, 05:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
As Mueller said, a sitting president can't be charged. You'd know if you had read the report.
I love to read, do it all the time.
Why would I bother to read volume 2?
It's an opinion piece that comes to the same score as volume 1, nothing.
Do you know team Mueller was performing search warrants on targets? Hmmm. Search warrants that didn't even get them to their goal. Andrew Mad Dog Weissmann in full attack mode for two years, nothing.

A year ago I predicted a bowl of legal ease rambling that would enable the MSM and dems to play cling-on with. That's exactly what the weasel did. Pathetic excuse for a so called super prosecutor.

It's over but feel free to be ear grabbed by Rachel and Chuck T.

Republicans WANT Mueller to testify. That way he gets asked questions. Questions such as, When did you realize there was no collusion?
He won't step foot back into this because he can't answer questions.
He's gone.
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      05-31-2019, 06:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
I love to read, do it all the time.
Why would I bother to read volume 2?
It's an opinion piece that comes to the same score as volume 1, nothing.
Do you know team Mueller was performing search warrants on targets? Hmmm. Search warrants that didn't even get them to their goal. Andrew Mad Dog Weissmann in full attack mode for two years, nothing.

A year ago I predicted a bowl of legal ease rambling that would enable the MSM and dems to play cling-on with. That's exactly what the weasel did. Pathetic excuse for a so called super prosecutor.

It's over but feel free to be ear grabbed by Rachel and Chuck T.

Republicans WANT Mueller to testify. That way he gets asked questions. Questions such as, When did you realize there was no collusion?
He won't step foot back into this because he can't answer questions.
He's gone.
No, vol one and vol 2 are what the Mueller team had to say, you're thinking as the Barr summary of four pages as the vol 1. The summary, was well summarized by a congressman, a republican one. Justin was his fist name.
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      05-31-2019, 06:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
Well in the US, people are innocent until proven guilty, and therefore the onus is on you to justify the need for prosecution. So why don't you please provide the specific quotes/sections that you think warrant prosecution. Please also specify the specific laws that are broken in the conduct you intend to quote.

My point in challenging you isn't to show you that he shouldn't be prosecuted. It's to highlight the point that most people on the investigative team were slightly biased against trump personally, so if there was a remote chance that there was sufficient evidence to justify a charge based on a specific rule/law that was broken, they would have pursued it. Things that he has done that are not nice or icky do not qualify for prosecution and no one is saying that he didn't do things that were immoral or unpresidential, just that he didn't do enough to have a clear and shut case against him.
If you read at least the second part of the report, you'd know.

I'm not an American, i don't like soundbyte journalism. I don't understand how you all haven't read it. You're all weird.
So many assumptions and innuendos in such few words.

You assume I:

1. Didn't read it.
2. Have the same understanding of the American legal/justice system as you do
3. That anyone regardless of their knowledge of the legal system can only come to one, obvious and logical conclusion once reading it.
4. All the legal professionals involved in the investigation, none of whom are biased towards trump, all magically got it wrong, but YOU know the real deal.

Laughable.
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      05-31-2019, 06:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Mueller submitted what charges?

Short thread.
As Mueller said, a sitting president can't be charged. You'd know if you had read the report.
If mueller knew that, then why waste two years and 30mm dollars investigating something where you can't possibly come to the result of a prosecution?

You might reply to the question above by saying he investigated potential non-presidential co-conspirators. How many of those did he charge with collusion? None.

Big waste of time. No convictions from a biased group of investigators and you guys still can't accept the result. Smh.
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      05-31-2019, 06:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
So many assumptions and innuendos in such few words.

You assume I:

1. Didn't read it.
2. Have the same understanding of the American legal/justice system as you do
3. That anyone regardless of their knowledge of the legal system can only come to one, obvious and logical conclusion once reading it.
4. All the legal professionals involved in the investigation, none of whom are biased towards trump, all magically got it wrong, but YOU know the real deal.

Laughable.
English is my fourth language, and I can assure you the report needs no higher legal or reading skills those of us that have passed the sixth grade have.

Honestly, trade will do trump in. Sadly, the attitudes spread will do us all in.

Read the report and then say you're okay with it. You don't need to justify it more, just accept it as a thing to do, or don't. Just read it, and say it's okay or not.

A moral high ground is east to claim., hard to keep if you you don't even bother to read the material.
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      05-31-2019, 06:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
No, vol one and vol 2 are what the Mueller team had to say, you're thinking as the Barr summary of four pages as the vol 1. The summary, was well summarized by a congressman, a republican one. Justin was his fist name.
No, I know exactly what I'm thinking about. What I won't think about is how the TV people can convince me otherwise. They've been deceiving you for a long time and will continue to do so. It's what they do.

The charge of Russian collusion bombards Trump. He says he didn't, which is what Mueller concluded. Meanwhile, as Mueller tries to destroy anyone involved with Trump, Trump fights back. He got sloppy, I'll admit, but he was fighting back against the thing that started it all. COLLUSION!
RUSSIANS! PEE-PEE!
It will be brought into the sunlight soon my darling.

Amash? Pffftt. He will be a dem in no time. You don't think he's saying that stuff because he believes it, do you?
Career power, Mrs. Lups, that's all he is after. Anywhere he can find it.


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      05-31-2019, 07:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
So many assumptions and innuendos in such few words.

You assume I:

1. Didn't read it.
2. Have the same understanding of the American legal/justice system as you do
3. That anyone regardless of their knowledge of the legal system can only come to one, obvious and logical conclusion once reading it.
4. All the legal professionals involved in the investigation, none of whom are biased towards trump, all magically got it wrong, but YOU know the real deal.

Laughable.
English is my fourth language, and I can assure you the report needs no higher legal or reading skills those of us that have passed the sixth grade have.

Honestly, trade will do trump in. Sadly, the attitudes spread will do us all in.

Read the report and then say you're okay with it. You don't need to justify it more, just accept it as a thing to do, or don't. Just read it, and say it's okay or not.

A moral high ground is east to claim., hard to keep if you you don't even bother to read the material.
Speaking four languages doesn't make your "opinion" correct and while speaking a lot of languages you clearly don't understand English very well.

For the record, English is my 2nd language chronologically, first in terms of comprehension, but I also speak 4 languages. And that in and of itself doesn't make my opinion right. My comprehension of law and logic do.
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      05-31-2019, 07:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Honestly, trade will do trump in. Sadly, the attitudes spread will do us all in.
This.

If he doesn't temper the tariff nonsense the risk is that it backfires and the fed waits too long to save the day.

This Mexico crap is just that, crap...
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      06-01-2019, 08:38 AM   #18
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Big waste of time. No convictions from a biased group of investigators and you guys still can't accept the result. Smh.
Uh no. 34 people and 3 companies have received indictments so far. 7 convictions so far, mostly guilty pleas.
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      06-01-2019, 09:15 AM   #19
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Uh no. 34 people and 3 companies have received indictments so far. 7 convictions so far, mostly guilty pleas.
And don't forget, I believe 12 other investigations referred out to other offices. We will have to see what comes of those.
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      06-01-2019, 09:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Big waste of time. No convictions from a biased group of investigators and you guys still can't accept the result. Smh.
Uh no. 34 people and 3 companies have received indictments so far. 7 convictions so far, mostly guilty pleas.
The initial basis for the investigation was (broadly) Russian involvement in the election, and (more narrowly) Trump campaign participation with the Russians. Of the convictions you mentioned, how many were campaign staff? And of those that were campaign staff, how many were charged or convicted of collusion with Russians and election interference?
Answer: none. All of the convictions stemmed from lying during the investigation and/or crimes uncovered not having anything to do with the election.
When I consider the efficacy of an investigation the only metric that matters is the number of people convicted of crimes directly related to the original basis for the investigation. In the campaign there were none of those.

If I accused you of murder and you said no I was at burger king at the time and then it turns out that you were really at your mistress's house, you would have lied during the investigation, doesn't make you a murderer.

If I accused you of murder and during the investigation I uncover that you cheated on your taxes, that doesn't make it a successful murder investigation.
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      06-01-2019, 09:43 AM   #21
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I actually think the report was quite shocking.

Russian interference in our election to the benefit of Trump (and Trump still basically refuses to acknowledge it or do anything about it). Obama's national security people came to this conclusion. Trump was briefed on it and never said, "Well now that you mention it, they have been in contact with us..."No, it was cricket, cricket, cricket.

Trump's own national security people came to the same conclusion. Yet, he won't acknowledge it because his ego is to frail. He thinks it will make his election appear illegitimate. So instead of putting our national security, Democracy and free elections first, he is more concerned about how HE looks. Pathetic.

Well over 100 contacts between Trump and family/campaign and Russia, etc, despite the constant LIES that Trump had nothing to do with Russia. Yes, Mueller could not prove a CONSPIRACY to the point of charging it because of insufficient evidence, but he does state that evidence was destroyed, and his people were lied to as well.

Although not technically required by law, they never ONCE contacted the FBI or anyone else to report what Russia (still not our friend) was trying to do.

Numerous instances of what Mueller laid out as instances of obstruction. Trump would only answer questions on writing about the conspiracy side of things. Mueller said they were still insufficient. He refused to answer questions about obstruction. So much for all that talk about cooperation and transparency.

Yes, Mueller did not reach a conclusion about charging Trump on obstruction. But, it was CLEAR he never exonerated him, either. Yes, Barr came out later and said there was no obstruction, which was frankly laughable. As of last week, 947 former federal prosecutors think otherwise and we all know why Barr was chosen by Trump. But, at the same time, Barr is in the big chair so it is what it is.

I can completely understand why Mueller ended his report in the manner he did. I have worked around the law the past close to 35 years of my life. I know more state and federal prosecutors than I can shake a stick at, both current and former ( some are now judges ). There is not a single one of them who would tarnish someone's reputation by saying they should be charged with a crime, yet not charge them with a crime. For Barr to now say Mueller should have made that decision, knowing full well he could not actually indict him is laughable at best, and frankly coming from the Attorney General of the United States disgraceful.

I still think the investigation was very successful. To simple nail that career criminal Manafort is a big deal. The government is recouping millions in assets from him. We also have a much better idea of what the Russians are up to. Too bad few in the Administration seem to care.

Lastly, even though Trump was not charged, if anyone thinks the conduct outlined in the report was even remotely acceptable for anyone running for president (or any public office), or was acceptable as president, I think you should take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and figure out if you have lost your moral compass.
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      06-01-2019, 09:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genieman View Post
The initial basis for the investigation was (broadly) Russian involvement in the election, and (more narrowly) Trump campaign participation with the Russians. Of the convictions you mentioned, how many were campaign staff? And of those that were campaign staff, how many were charged or convicted of collusion with Russians and election interference?
Answer: none. All of the convictions stemmed from lying during the investigation and/or crimes uncovered not having anything to do with the election.
When I consider the efficacy of an investigation the only metric that matters is the number of people convicted of crimes directly related to the original basis for the investigation. In the campaign there were none of those.

If I accused you of murder and you said no I was at burger king at the time and then it turns out that you were really at your mistress's house, you would have lied during the investigation, doesn't make you a murderer.

If I accused you of murder and during the investigation I uncover that you cheated on your taxes, that doesn't make it a successful murder investigation.

You aren't looking at this thru the correct tint of glasses.

I'd bet that digging into any politician or high level political operative with the breadth and power of the Mueller investigation, a huge percentage would be found guilty of some crime. Not advocating let them off for doing things wrong (hiding tons of income from taxes is tax fraud regardless of how it was discovered), but, all sides of the spectrum are packed with slimy crooked people.
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