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      01-05-2019, 11:00 AM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Not quite. For the FAAR architecture, which is the new name for UKL, the electric drivetrain will remain FWD. An AWD electric vehicle on the platform could be tuned for a rear bias, yes, but those aren't expected soon, if ever.

At some point, BMW will no doubt develop a dedicated EV architecture for small vehicles like VAG's MEB which takes a rear engine, RWD first approach for better packaging. But that's still a few years off at least.
I was referring to AWD electric.

It could also be just RWD electric.
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      01-05-2019, 11:42 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by MarcelM1 View Post
If I wanted FWD/AWD and a 4-Banger, I'd go Audi and take that nice interior along with it.
Presumably the way it drives isn't important? If not, you're onto something - BMW has no reason to make a competitor, because competition is pointless right?

Of all the rubbish posted on this forum, the assertion that there is no point making a high-output 4WD because Audi and Mercedes are already doing it and thus there is no need, is the most puzzlingly rubbish of all. If that was the prevailing logic y'all would still be banging rocks.
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      01-05-2019, 12:43 PM   #421
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      01-05-2019, 04:42 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
I was referring to AWD electric.
Sure. Still, you weren’t specific, so I figured I’d add clarity to the situation. And anyway, as I noted, AWD FAAR EVs are not expected soon. The first ones will be FWD. AWD could come later, but depending on the timing, they may have moved on to another small vehicle architecture by that time.

Quote:
It could also be just RWD electric.
Theoretically possible, but again, expect 2WD EVs on this platform to remain FWD just like the 2WD ICE vehicles.
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      01-05-2019, 05:13 PM   #423
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useless.
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      01-06-2019, 12:31 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Costello1991 View Post
useless.
It's nice to have choices and a 3er isn't for everyone.

Hopefully it will be offered in electric stat.
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      01-06-2019, 02:52 AM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAndrew View Post
Presumably the way it drives isn't important? If not, you're onto something - BMW has no reason to make a competitor, because competition is pointless right?

Of all the rubbish posted on this forum, the assertion that there is no point making a high-output 4WD because Audi and Mercedes are already doing it and thus there is no need is the most puzzlingly rubbish of all. If that was the prevailing logic y'all would still be banging rocks.
I have never made the assertion that there is no point of making a high power 4WD. But I'm concerned about BMW trying to beat Audi at it's own game. Meaning 4-Cylinder, transverse engine layout and FWD/Haldex-AWD.

Let's face it, one of the main reason people bought the 1-Series was because of the RWD and in case of the M135/140i, the straight 6.

Let's take that away from the platform and I think it'll be pretty hard for the 1-Series and 2 GC.

In my opinion there is no way that they are going to outdo Audi on the interior department so what's left is the handling of the car in which they need to shine. And even if they manage to blow Audi and Mercedes out of the water handling wise with that platform, it'll be hard to justify a purchase for the average joe.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they come up with
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      01-06-2019, 05:47 AM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcelM1 View Post
But I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they come up with
A shittier Audi
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      01-06-2019, 10:12 AM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAndrew View Post
Presumably the way it drives isn't important? If not, you're onto something - BMW has no reason to make a competitor, because competition is pointless right?

Of all the rubbish posted on this forum, the assertion that there is no point making a high-output 4WD because Audi and Mercedes are already doing it and thus there is no need, is the most puzzlingly rubbish of all. If that was the prevailing logic y'all would still be banging rocks.
I don’t think that’s the argument - rather, Audi and Mercedes have been doing it a lot longer and are (presumably) better at FWD or AWD applications.

BMW themselves used to crow about the advantages of a RWD driven vehicle, and one could argue that RWD was the brand’s most identifying characteristic for the vast majority of the company’s history. It’s obviously not the direction many would like to see the company going, with the progression of FWD 1ers and 2ers, and no RWD option for the 2er GC.

AKA, they’re not doing anything revolutionary here. They’re just trying to copy what others have done for a slice of market share. Is that really a competitor?
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      01-06-2019, 12:12 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
+1 Times 100. Could not possibly say this any better.
"+1 times 100"

Let me do the math for you:

"+100"
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      01-10-2019, 05:08 PM   #429
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Remember when BMW said odd number cars would be sedans and even number would be coupes? I do.

What's the point off all these ridiculous models?
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      01-10-2019, 08:33 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city1991 View Post
Remember when BMW said odd number cars would be sedans and even number would be coupes? I do.

What's the point off all these ridiculous models?
The point is to try to have more ridiculous unneeded/unnecessary models than Mercedes.

It's a hard goal to reach but they are well on their way.
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      01-11-2019, 09:47 AM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcelM1 View Post
Let's face it, one of the main reason people bought the 1-Series was because of the RWD and in case of the M135/140i, the straight 6.
Of a handful of self-selecting enthusiasts, sure. Of the other 95% of the customer demographic, around 80% did not know the car was RWD.
Quote:
In my opinion there is no way that they are going to outdo Audi on the interior department so what's left is the handling of the car in which they need to shine. And even if they manage to blow Audi and Mercedes out of the water handling wise with that platform, it'll be hard to justify a purchase for the average joe.
Funny how that - handling - isn't important to the so-called "enthusiasts" here. Or at least, the ones who want BMW to fail, so they can go and buy an Audi with all the mid-corner adjustability of the Santa FE express.
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      01-11-2019, 10:01 AM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I don’t think that’s the argument - rather, Audi and Mercedes have been doing it a lot longer and are (presumably) better at FWD or AWD applications.

BMW themselves used to crow about the advantages of a RWD driven vehicle, and one could argue that RWD was the brand’s most identifying characteristic for the vast majority of the company’s history. It’s obviously not the direction many would like to see the company going, with the progression of FWD 1ers and 2ers, and no RWD option for the 2er GC.

AKA, they’re not doing anything revolutionary here. They’re just trying to copy what others have done for a slice of market share. Is that really a competitor?
Of course it is, who wouldn't it be, and the Mini is already a top 10 seller. Audi muscled in on BMW's patch in the mid 90s and made a good fist of it. Are you - and others here - saying that BMW should be shoved back into its box, know its place, and be morally banned from competing? That's what I meant by "rubbish", although I know some of them are just trolling of course.

The 2 series active tourer? Has-been wannabe, right? Especially if you've never driven one, or seen one, or need one. Anyway, it's the biggest-selling hybrid in Germany, recently surpassing the e-Golf. (The i3 is fourth, and the 530e tenth). Yep, all pointless to go into competition.
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      01-11-2019, 11:09 AM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAndrew View Post
Of course it is, who wouldn't it be, and the Mini is already a top 10 seller. Audi muscled in on BMW's patch in the mid 90s and made a good fist of it. Are you - and others here - saying that BMW should be shoved back into its box, know its place, and be morally banned from competing? That's what I meant by "rubbish", although I know some of them are just trolling of course.

The 2 series active tourer? Has-been wannabe, right? Especially if you've never driven one, or seen one, or need one. Anyway, it's the biggest-selling hybrid in Germany, recently surpassing the e-Golf. (The i3 is fourth, and the 530e tenth). Yep, all pointless to go into competition.
My point is that I am not buying a FWD BMW - because I have more confidence in the other German manufacturers who have been working with that platform for a longer period of time, and should be better at it.

Has BMW discovered a FWD method that defies physics and the inherent understeer? If so, I would be happy to give one a shot, but I am not aware that they've created something novel that changes the subjective disadvantages of a FWD platform.

BMWs have traditionally been regarded as "sporty" compared to their counterparts - whether customers were aware of it or not, some of that is based upon the fact that a RWD car handles in a more playful and sporty manner. So that's something you think would be cultivated and maximized...not discarded for some 2 series minivan sales.

And yes, that's quite an accomplishment to lead the EU in a specific segment of hybrid sales. In other news, I led my local softball team in 9th inning doubles, in the month of August last year. Pretty similar impact, in terms of breaking news.
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      01-11-2019, 04:21 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAndrew View Post
Of course it is, who wouldn't it be, and the Mini is already a top 10 seller. Audi muscled in on BMW's patch in the mid 90s and made a good fist of it. Are you - and others here - saying that BMW should be shoved back into its box, know its place, and be morally banned from competing? That's what I meant by "rubbish", although I know some of them are just trolling of course.

The 2 series active tourer? Has-been wannabe, right? Especially if you've never driven one, or seen one, or need one. Anyway, it's the biggest-selling hybrid in Germany, recently surpassing the e-Golf. (The i3 is fourth, and the 530e tenth). Yep, all pointless to go into competition.
My point is that I am not buying a FWD BMW - because I have more confidence in the other German manufacturers who have been working with that platform for a longer period of time, and should be better at it.

Has BMW discovered a FWD method that defies physics and the inherent understeer? If so, I would be happy to give one a shot, but I am not aware that they've created something novel that changes the subjective disadvantages of a FWD platform.

BMWs have traditionally been regarded as "sporty" compared to their counterparts - whether customers were aware of it or not, some of that is based upon the fact that a RWD car handles in a more playful and sporty manner. So that's something you think would be cultivated and maximized...not discarded for some 2 series minivan sales.

And yes, that's quite an accomplishment to lead the EU in a specific segment of hybrid sales. In other news, I led my local softball team in 9th inning doubles, in the month of August last year. Pretty similar impact, in terms of breaking news.


2 series minivan. Ouch

Never thought I would see the day BMW would go full blown Plymouth Caravan
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      01-11-2019, 05:04 PM   #435
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What's with all the hate of more choices? The only existing car that is moving to FWD is the 1 series hatch, and that isn't sold in the US anyway.

Also, BMW have been doing FWD since 2000 not without success. You've heard of Mini, right?
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      01-11-2019, 07:11 PM   #436
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The only existing car that is moving to FWD is the 1 series hatch...
Just a small nitpick. The X1 also moved from a RWD to FWD platform. Perhaps it’s not a “car” in the strictest sense, but it certainly is in the colloquially sense. And in the US it is a “passenger car” by law.
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      01-12-2019, 03:19 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Just a small nitpick. The X1 also moved from a RWD to FWD platform. Perhaps it’s not a “car” in the strictest sense, but it certainly is in the colloquially sense. And in the US it is a “passenger car” by law.
I know, but that was three years ago (and almost nobody seems to be complaining).
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      01-12-2019, 08:36 AM   #438
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I know, but that was three years ago (and almost nobody seems to be complaining).
Yes, complaining has mostly subsided now, but at the time it debuted there was a large degree of unrest. In that case, there was also the very legitimate gripe about the loss of the 35i model, an omission BMW has yet to fix (though there is the X2 M35i, finally). With the F40 and F44, at least we we know that won’t be the case - they will get M35i variants at or near initial release.
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      02-19-2019, 11:17 AM   #439
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February 19, 2019

M235i / M240i Gran Coupe spotted again.

BMW M235i / M240i Gran Coupe Prototype


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      02-19-2019, 12:07 PM   #440
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