Sign out
Bimmerpost
Login
BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-30-2017, 07:09 PM   #23
02Pilot
Malcontent
02Pilot's Avatar
178
Rep
299
Posts

 
Drives: 128i
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

As someone who's owned 2002s for the last 25 years, worked on basically every component of them at one point or another, and driven them in competition, let me offer you a few bits of advice.

You've got the car disassembled to the point that rebuilding whole systems makes a lot of sense. Work in this order: brakes, suspension, power. If you can't stop, bad things happen; if you can stop but can't control the car precisely, bad things happen; if you're making less power than you'd like, you're slow.

The braking system is pretty straightforward and easy to rebuild. The soft lines can degrade internally and cause fluid pressure to be retained at the wheels. Wheel cylinders are cheap. Get good pads and rotors for the front, and shoes for the rear. Make sure the adjusters on the rear baking plates are free, otherwise you won't be able to adjust the rears properly and you'll have excessive pedal travel.

Suspension is where you have to start making choices. If you want a street car with compliant handling, replace every bushing with rubber. If you want a tighter suspension that trades comfort for handling, replace every bushing with polyurethane. Do not leave old bushings in place, as they will compromise everything else you do to the suspension. The steering linkage should be dealt with at this point as well; the shaft coupler can fail, so replace that too. There are plenty of options for springs and shocks. I prefer Bilsteins to Konis, but that's personal choice. Any modern shock and spring combo will be superior to the factory units; the question again is how much lowering you want (if any) and how firm you want the suspension to feel.

Get those things squared away and then worry about the engine and drivetrain. Always keep in mind that it's generally more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.
Appreciate 1
DGM339.00

      08-31-2017, 10:07 AM   #24
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by seedyrom View Post
Omera, donít forget itís a 40+ year old car. Daily drivability, cornering speed, comfort levels, are all words which make sense when talking about restoring a 1999 Nissan GTR ... just donít forget the age and the age in which this car was made.
It was seen as an excellent handling beast in its day.
ďThat engine is too big!Ē The detractors cried .... but these days a Corolla will out handle and outrace one.

2002s can be made to handle ... Iím just saying to respect that it isnít a modern car.
I was once going to sell one of mine. A young guy came to look at it, but he had never driven one before. I threw him the keys and he went off in it. He came back as white as a ghost.
It wasnít what he was expecting at all. Wheel slop, slow brakes, gear shift not as tight as a modern car.

2002s are great ... but they are an older car, and your expectations should be set accordingly
Seedyrom,

Thank you for your insight.

I want to restore the car to its original state as it left the factory in November of 1974, however, I also want to drive around with it in my day to day life without worrying about overheating, being starnded or rolling when coming into a sharp corner. That's why I feel the need to help the engine with some modern-day tech like a cooling fan or new suspension system. Of course, I'm not expecting a 40+-year-old car to perform as my 2016 2 Coupe. I respect the car which is older than me and I know what it symbolizes and means for the many. About a month ago I borrowed an i8 from my dealer for 2 weeks just for fun. It was all fun and games until I started to notice how people were looking at the car with envy as a 20-year-old was driving it, this got me really uncomfortable. However, the story changes with 2002. People look at it as a reminiscent of their youth, they look at it with love and passion and the car isn't even complete. The day I bought it I was taking it to my place, it's about 3-4km max drive in the city. I was stopped by 12 different strangers along the road who came to me while I was waiting at red lights just to admire the car and started telling me stories about their 2002's or their memories of one which they saw back in the day. This car gets love not hate. My dad told me that driving a BMW 2002 back in the day in Turkey was like driving a Lamborghini today. It was extremely rare.

I want all the funkiness and quirks of it, what I am trying to overcome is just to be able to use it without running into issues that 1970's engineers didn't expect(read: traffic, high temperatures etc.).

That's why I am having constant debates over my head about what to change and what not to. For example, this car has the E21 5 Speed swap done to it. Should I change it or keep it, 5 speed will help me in the day to day driving but the original was a 4 Speed. So this is where Originality vs practicality debate starts for me. I also got a 4 speed as a gift as my father recently couldn't resist and acquired a 2002 but with original Alpina A2 level modifications done to it when it was bought and sent back to Alpina/Germany. The owner gave me the original 4 speed as it was replaced with a Getrag 5 speed dogleg at Alpina. We are the 3rd owner of the car.

Also, you don't need to use my username, my name is Omer

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Pilot View Post
As someone who's owned 2002s for the last 25 years, worked on basically every component of them at one point or another, and driven them in competition, let me offer you a few bits of advice.

You've got the car disassembled to the point that rebuilding whole systems makes a lot of sense. Work in this order: brakes, suspension, power. If you can't stop, bad things happen; if you can stop but can't control the car precisely, bad things happen; if you're making less power than you'd like, you're slow.

The braking system is pretty straightforward and easy to rebuild. The soft lines can degrade internally and cause fluid pressure to be retained at the wheels. Wheel cylinders are cheap. Get good pads and rotors for the front, and shoes for the rear. Make sure the adjusters on the rear baking plates are free, otherwise you won't be able to adjust the rears properly and you'll have excessive pedal travel.

Suspension is where you have to start making choices. If you want a street car with compliant handling, replace every bushing with rubber. If you want a tighter suspension that trades comfort for handling, replace every bushing with polyurethane. Do not leave old bushings in place, as they will compromise everything else you do to the suspension. The steering linkage should be dealt with at this point as well; the shaft coupler can fail, so replace that too. There are plenty of options for springs and shocks. I prefer Bilsteins to Konis, but that's a personal choice. Any modern shock and spring combo will be superior to the factory units; the question again is how much lowering you want (if any) and how firm you want the suspension to feel.

Get those things squared away and then worry about the engine and drivetrain. Always keep in mind that it's generally more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.
I am repairing everything and replacing the things that cannot be repaired or that needs to be changed, this is a bare bone restoration as it makes the most sense to get in the way of any potential issues that may arise down the road. Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it
Appreciate 1
DGM339.00

      08-31-2017, 11:56 AM   #25
02Pilot
Malcontent
02Pilot's Avatar
178
Rep
299
Posts

 
Drives: 128i
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

A properly maintained 100% stock 2002 will have no problems in normal operation - there was plenty of traffic in the 1970s. Improving the suspension or drivetrain is fine if that's what you want, but the stock setup is perfectly adequate. Only the cooling system might be a bit marginal for your summers, but the late E21 radiator and a fan shroud pretty much drop in and will solve your problems. Other than that, upgrades are simply not necessary (but may be desirable).
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2017, 04:04 PM   #26
MarcoZandrini
First Lieutenant
United_States
116
Rep
395
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 M240i
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Nice! Brings back memories of first bimmer, a 1971 2002!

I checked out the photos on google. I bet that the car was either VERRRY nicely restored or it's original. Where did the car come from?
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2017, 04:18 PM   #27
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Pilot View Post
A properly maintained 100% stock 2002 will have no problems in normal operation - there was plenty of traffic in the 1970s. Improving the suspension or drivetrain is fine if that's what you want, but the stock setup is perfectly adequate. Only the cooling system might be a bit marginal for your summers, but the late E21 radiator and a fan shroud pretty much drop in and will solve your problems. Other than that, upgrades are simply not necessary (but may be desirable).
Thank you for the explanation and the suggestions, I appreciate them and they help me decide the middle way on the project. I'll write on my decisions as the project moves along

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
Nice! Brings back memories of first bimmer, a 1971 2002!

I checked out the photos on google. I bet that the car was either VERRRY nicely restored or it's original. Where did the car come from?
The car to my knowledge has not been restored previously, however, it had modifications/retrofits done to it by previous owners like painting it to this bronze color from the original Inka Orange, replacing the original 4 speed with an E21 5 speed, a music system etc. I will revert some of these to their original state and keep some of them that are beneficial and does not comprise the originality a lot. It was a barn find in a village just out of Istanbul.

Last edited by omera60; 09-03-2017 at 04:30 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2017, 09:02 AM   #28
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
The car has been moved to the body shop on the other side of Istanbul. There it is being stripped out of its paint, they are also clearing the any remains inside. I didnít want the car to be sandblasted so I picked the route of a special liquid that brakes the paint molecules without harming the metal, it was supplied by the BMW classic center, itís the same material they used on the Elvisí 507. After this, if there is any need like inside of the door panels etc a soda blasting will be done. Photos uploaded to the Drive. Next; being sent to a body panel specialist for inspection and repairs also if needed replacements.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2017, 09:59 AM   #29
Transcon
Private First Class
United_States
151
Rep
147
Posts

 
Drives: 2017 F87 M2
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1966 BMW R60/2  [0.00]
1974 BMW 2002Tii  [0.00]
2017 BMW M2  [0.00]
I put 11K miles on my 74 Tii last year alone and can attest that, even without all the modern conveniences, these can be reliable daily drivers. Good call on bringing back the factory color, from the looks of the engine compartment that is Inka for sure as Colorado is much lighter.

Albeit a roundie but this will give you some inspiration and an auction to watch: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-bmw-2002tii-11/
__________________
|2017 LBB M2|6 speed|EP|DINAN Suspension|DINAN Free Flow Exhaust|DINAN Carbon CAI|DINAN Sport Tuner Stg 1|12/10mm MACHT SCHNELL Spacers|BMS Clutch Stop|IND Painted reflectors|ACEXXON/IND Rear Reflectors
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2017, 05:12 AM   #30
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transcon View Post
I put 11K miles on my 74 Tii last year alone and can attest that, even without all the modern conveniences, these can be reliable daily drivers. Good call on bringing back the factory color, from the looks of the engine compartment that is Inka for sure as Colorado is much lighter.

Albeit a roundie but this will give you some inspiration and an auction to watch: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-bmw-2002tii-11/
I am super hyped about the car and I want to drive it all day every day, Iím a big orange color fan for almost everything The most important issue is;

1) High temperatures and mad traffic here can cause issues in day to day driving
2) As people here drive like crazy and show no respect to anyone which causes deadly crashes and accidents almost every single day so if I ever were to find myself in such situation I want to be able to avoid it or be able to pass someone who is driving like a lunatic. This is where the ďperformanceĒ upgrades come to place.

But I still have some time before any decisions need to be made, Iím open to any suggestions you might have.
Appreciate 0
      10-21-2017, 07:14 PM   #31
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
The car came back from the body/paint shop. There are quite a few rust issues around however this is not abnormal for a car twice my age. I’ve been told that most important 3 things are in their best condition which is happy to hear. These parts are the hood, roof and the trunk panels. The car never had an accident so everything is in perfect state. Now I’m waiting for the body panel specialist hand me over the parts list he needs so I can place an order for them from BMW Classic. He will begin his work on November 1st and it is expected to last 2 months. In the mean time we are in talks with our engine specialist for the engine and the transmission and how we should proceed while the body is worked on as timing is crucial for final assembly. I have 2 new albums on the Drive for your eyes pleasure
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2017, 06:42 AM   #32
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Small update time;
2 front side panels and 2 rear wheel housing panels have arrived from Germany. They are perfect! Also the other body panels which are being replaced are taking shape as well. You can find some pictures on the Drive.
Appreciate 0
      01-10-2018, 02:45 PM   #33
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
New year update time:

The vehicle has been moved back to the body and paint shop from the body panel specialist, he made all those panels in 2 months from BMW drawings and molds he made out of my car as well as a collection car all by hand, gotta respect the man for his work. Itís been towed back to the other side of Istanbul. From our current estimate, it might make it just before summer comes (knock on wood). You can also find new pictures on the drive for the first round of the year, enjoy

Last edited by omera60; 01-10-2018 at 03:38 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2018, 05:00 PM   #34
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
First coat of just paint has been painted on some certain parts that are otherwise not accessible during the normal process. Moving slowly at this stage as the body shop is cutting or replacing the old parts with the newly made ones...
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2018, 06:51 PM   #35
ScottSinger
Brigadier General
1569
Rep
4,369
Posts

 
Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

were the door panels fabricated by workers in Istanbul? almost a shame to paint them?
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2018, 04:08 AM   #36
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
were the door panels fabricated by workers in Istanbul? almost a shame to paint them?
Yes they were Scott, only the front side panels and the outer wheel arch for the rears were bought from BMW, all others were made by hand in a specialist workshop by a single guy here in Istanbul. All of the pieces have so much love and effort put into them, at this point I can call them all art pieces...
Appreciate 0
      06-29-2018, 02:10 PM   #37
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Small update time, the main drivetrain parts from BMW has arrived so the reassembly of the engine, transmission and such will be starting next week. In the mean time the body has been primed and it is ready for first layer of paint. Now as these progress Iím looking for interior equipment, cosmetics and upholstery in general. Pictures available on the Drive now.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2018, 11:11 AM   #38
omera60
First Lieutenant
omera60's Avatar
Turkey
143
Rep
345
Posts

 
Drives: '16 218i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Engine assembly has started as of yesterday. The engine housing just came back with all the errors being rectified and painted to the original color. Added some photos to the drive...
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST