Dead battery makes man locked out of his Te$la unless he pays $26k for a new one...

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by dizz81

Until you need to turn or brake. Then the only thing getting crushed is your EV as it rolls over and over.

Last time I checked a model s plaid ran the same ring time as an m5cs.

When did the model s first debut? When did the m5 first debut?

It took a decade for Tesla to match decades worth of evolution of the m5.

Accept that ev is here and will soon fully take over.

[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So, you are really not that concerned about your claim humans are detrimental to the climate. A realist would abandon all ICE ownership immediately and make the sacrifice for the planet and grandchildren; wait for the technology to catch up to your belief system. If not, stop preaching anthropogenic climate change because you, in truth, do not care about it.

Logical fallacy here. You can be for addressing GHG emissions and still drive an ICE powered vehicle. For some of us, auto use is a small part of our total contribution to GHGs.

Part of the problem is that there has been inaction and resistance for so long that we're behind the curve (literally). Had we responded sooner, there would be less urgency and more flexibility.

[Angelo_GraysonMiniBMW]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Last time I checked a model s plaid ran the same ring time as an m5cs.

When did the model s first debut? When did the m5 first debut?

It took a decade for Tesla to match decades worth of evolution of the m5.

Accept that ev is here and will soon fully take over.

Some prefer digital watches and others prefer mechanical watches. I like both, but telling someone they have to buy just digital is not very American. Sounds more authoritarian. I don’t have to accept something because someone tells me to. Maybe, you like the way China governs

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Angelo1

Some prefer digital watches and others prefer mechanical watches. I like both, but telling someone they have to buy just digital is not very American. Sounds more authoritarian. I don’t have to accept something because someone tells me to. Maybe, you like the way China governs

No one said you have to like them.

I said accept that they're here. IF you want to continue to own dinosaur ICE vehicles 20-30 years from now go right ahead. I know i will keep my C8Z forever. Or as long as i'm "allowed".

This whole EV thing, i like. I totally get it. And it works, for me. That's why i have a model 3.

[Angelo_GraysonMiniBMW]

Let’s sum up the greenness of EVs into one quote “smoke and mirrors”. You will have nuts on both sides that are all or nothing. In 20yrs, environmentalist will finally wake up on how bad EVs are. I’ve lived long enough and majored in History to foresee what’s coming. Folks, it’s all BS. Want to make a real difference, ride a bike and use public transportation only. Have your groceries delivered and live in a multi unit condominium. These things are much more effective. Stop having kids and owning animals. Why won’t this happen on a grand scale, because people are just mostly talk and grab onto a cause to think they are making a difference while not giving up their lifestyle.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

No one said you have to like them.

I said accept that they're here. IF you want to continue to own dinosaur ICE vehicles 20-30 years from now go right ahead. I know i will keep my C8Z forever. Or as long as i'm "allowed".

This whole EV thing, i like. I totally get it. And it works, for me. That's why i have a model 3.

Yawn

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

nope mandatory vaccines for all and electrics

Hold on there cowboy.
Just last night, on 60 Minutes, Fauci Chow Mein's boss said the pandemic is over.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Angelo1

Let’s sum up the greenness of EVs into one quote “smoke and mirrors”. You will have nuts on both sides that are all or nothing. In 20yrs, environmentalist will finally wake up on how bad EVs are. I’ve lived long enough and majored in History to foresee what’s coming. Folks, it’s all BS. Want to make a real difference, ride a bike and use public transportation only. Have your groceries delivered and live in a multi unit condominium. These things are much more effective. Stop having kids and owning animals. Why won’t this happen on a grand scale, because people are just mostly talk and grab onto a cause to think they are making a difference while not giving up their lifestyle.

I didn't get a model 3 because i think "it's better for the environment".

I don't give 2 shits about the environment. My previous corvette had long tubes with no cats. I loved the sound and even the exhaust fumes whenever i drove it. Felt like a real race car.

I got the model 3 because i love the way they drive, love the simplicity, love the speed, love the technology. It's a car club within itself, even if you want no part of it.

Owning my M3 for almost a year now, i've gotten one thumbs up. From a dude in a sentra. Every other M car or BMW drives like dickheads. Cutting me off, trying to race, tail gating me.

Tesla drivers always wave to each other and acknowledge each other like actual human beings. Even if you don't want that attention from them, they give it to you.

[chris719]

Why is it the general sections, without moderation, inevitably turn back into the cesspool that was the Politics subforum and why is it tolerated? If it’s not already a polbait post to start with, it’s soon brigaded by the same people, like clockwork. This thread belongs in a pol section or nowhere.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

I'm starting to wonder why you are are missing my point on this. These cars are designed to become obsolete too quickly. It makes them disposable, and that is subsequently very wasteful. The idea is to save the planet, not kick the can down the road. A 100Kw battery may cost $17K today, $15K in 2 years, but $45K in 10 when when you actually need to replace it because the tech is then antiquated.

so funny when these EV cultists run around like.they are fighting climate change by increasing.toxic waste on earth

"but it says GREEN , that means I'm saving the earth right????!??!"

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I didn't get a model 3 because i think "it's better for the environment".

I don't give 2 shits about the environment. My previous corvette had long tubes with no cats. I loved the sound and even the exhaust fumes whenever i drove it. Felt like a real race car.

I got the model 3 because i love the way they drive, love the simplicity, love the speed, love the technology. It's a car club within itself, even if you want no part of it.

Owning my M3 for almost a year now, i've gotten one thumbs up. From a dude in a sentra. Every other M car or BMW drives like dickheads. Cutting me off, trying to race, tail gating me.

Tesla drivers always wave to each other and acknowledge each other like actual human beings. Even if you don't want that attention from them, they give it to you.

Maybe he was talking about the motivation to force their adoption through "green" regulation?

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Cos270

Maybe he was talking about the motivation to force their adoption through "green" regulation?

It is what it is.

I don't care about it. Because it doesn't affect me the way it might affect others.

People are too scared of change. I get it people don't want a "date" on this ban and rather just let things transition normally.

My thinking is, ok even if what they're doing is wrong, what the fuck can we can do about it? NOTHING.

So continue living your life, enjoying the cars you have. And then when you really can't, meaning you can't buy a new ICE car in 2035 or 2030 or whenever that is, then change your mentality and deal with it then.

2035 is so far from now. And even if 2035 was tomorrow, you still have a used market.

Cars evolve so much that by the time 2035 comes, everyone would probably WANT an EV. Or definitely something hybrid.

That's just how the world works.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by chris719

Why is it the general sections, without moderation, inevitably turn back into the cesspool that was the Politics subforum and why is it tolerated? If it’s not already a polbait post to start with, it’s soon brigaded by the same people, like clockwork. This thread belongs in a pol section or nowhere.

of course, just typical

when the conversation isn't going YOUR way, then censorship is your answer, instead of free and open debate

i know you'd love to stay in your echo chamber and not hear a challenging thought , but people need answers, not propaganda

[RM7]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

so funny when these EV cultists run around like.they are fighting climate change by increasing.toxic waste on earth

"but it says GREEN , that means I'm saving the earth right????!??!"

I know right, we should just go back to horses and carriages. At least then you could eat the horse when it died and you could burn the carriage as firewood. Stupid progress of horseless carriages. Think of the mess that we created after horses and carriages. Filling up junkyards, dead cars all over the place, etc. Never would have happened if we just stuck to horses.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

the battery is 16KWh, and costs $30K to replace, so that's abut $1875

I quoted $128/kwh in 2021 in another post. That seems to line up with prices going down.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Perhaps it's not your point, but it is mine.

I don't want to embrace a disposable solution to achieve a more green status. It's antithetical to me.

It's not disposable if we recycle them. Can we recycle gasoline?

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

I prefer to look at contemporary truths to predict my future. We as a society suck at future proofing our products.

We still have to try, because even if we improve our future proofing by 20% that's still 20% more than not doing anything,

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

I see no reason to believe I'll be able to buy a replacement battery for a 2023 Tesla Plaid for $5k in 8 years. perhaps I'm being cynical, but I also base my belief in historical facts, and observation of present truths.

Maybe not $5k, but even $10k adjusting for inflation would be a vast improvement.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

This theory was presented 10 years ago, still not preset and viable today. future theory < present truth.

What do you mean? There are already battery swapping stations even in undeveloped countries.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

That sounds nice, we should push for that too. future theory < present truth.

I want the same future you do, I really mean that very sincerely. I'm just trying to be realistic. We have limitations to work around.

Of course we have limitations. I never said it was going to be smooth and easy. On the contrary, it's going to be tough. Worst case scenario we try, fail, learn, ten try again until we succeed. The alternative is we do nothing and nothing gets done. Time is wasted being cynical.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

so funny when these EV cultists run around like.they are fighting climate change by increasing.toxic waste on earth

"but it says GREEN , that means I'm saving the earth right????!??!"

Ad hominem. He calls them disposable, but neither of you considered recycling these resources. This is why I play devil's advocate, regardless of what I do and don't believe. Otherwise people like you get away with name calling and belittling people instead of discussing the issues.

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

of course, just typical

when the conversation isn't going YOUR way, then censorship is your answer, instead of free and open debate

i know you'd love to stay in your echo chamber and not hear a challenging thought , but people need answers, not propaganda

Censorship comes in when the belittling starts.

[AlpineBoost]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

I would personally get an EV now but they all look like ass. The Audi and Porsche aren't atrocious but they are not good looking to my eye. Make one that actually looks like a sports car. I mean, imagine if BMW made an EV with the looks of the F-80 cars. Did 0-60 in 2 seconds flat!!!!! Had huge ass carbon brakes. I think I would be interested in that bitch. Instead, they all have this egg like rounded thing going on. Looks fucking horrible.

Same here. I'm not anti EV at all and couldn't care less what other people drive. I enjoy driving ICE cars, specifically manuals, and will do so for as long as I'm able. It doesn't mean that I won't also get an EV once some are released that even remotely interest me. It can't be that hard to come up with something in the $60-80k range. I could see that Toyota GR Sports EV, which appears to be a MR2 Successor, being a pretty cool car if it comes to fruition. Currently on looks alone it's a snoozefest out there.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Angelo1

Yes actually, thank you for asking. There are many practical uses for used motor oil. A primary use is to re-refine it into a base stock for lubricating oil. This process is very similar to the refining of crude oil. The result is that the re-refined oil is of as high a quality as a virgin oil product.

A secondary use of the used oil is to burn it for energy. Large industrial boilers can efficiently burn the used oil with minimum pollution. As a result, some used oil is sent to power plants or cement kilns to be burned as fuel. On a lesser scale, small quantities of used oil are burned in specially designed heaters to provide space heating for small businesses.

Thank you. What about the fuel we burn in our cars. Can that be recycled?

Our innovation, persistence, and creativity created these options for used motor oil. The same could be said about lithium batteries in the future. The EV's lack of need for lubrication outside of transmission and differential etc, further reduces the need to recycle used oil.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by jmg

I quoted $128/kwh in 2021 in another post. That seems to line up with prices going down.

$1875 > $128
Reality > theory

It's not disposable if we recycle them. Can we recycle gasoline?

Do you know what recycling a car really looks like? They grind it up and burn it. What ever metal is left over is recycled, the rest is turned into smoke and is pumped into the atmosphere. Some non-metals my be lucky and find it's way to a landfill instead of being burnt, depends on the scrap facility.

Have you looked into the process for Lithium-ion battery recycling?

We still have to try, because even if we improve our future proofing by 20% that's still 20% more than not doing anything,

But this is going backwards, it's not progress at all.

Maybe not $5k, but even $10k adjusting for inflation would be a vast improvement.

The Chevy Volt owners were promised the same thing 10 years ago. Didn't happen.

What do you mean? There are already battery swapping stations even in undeveloped countries.

Where can I go in Oregon to find a battery swap station for a Tesla? Audi? Bimmer? Nissan? Toyota?

Of course we have limitations. I never said it was going to be smooth and easy. On the contrary, it's going to be tough. Worst case scenario we try, fail, learn, ten try again until we succeed. The alternative is we do nothing and nothing gets done. Time is wasted being cynical.

Narrow minded single-approach solutions to complex problems probably wastes more time, it stifles innovation.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

$1875 > $128
Reality > theory

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/ev-b...ce%20estimates.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Do you know what recycling a car really looks like? They grind it up and burn it. What ever metal is left over is recycled,

We were discussing batteries weren't we? Regardless, some of it is recycled like you said here. Not entirely disposable.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

the rest is turned into smoke and is pumped into the atmosphere. Some non-metals my be lucky and find it's way to a landfill instead of being burnt, depends on the scrap facility.

According to some people here, this is perfectly fine because it's impossible for humans to harm the environment.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

What decade is this from?

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Have you looked into the process for Lithium-ion battery recycling?

Have you looked into the process of recycling gasoline? I asked first.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

But this is going backwards, it's not progress at all.

20% improvement is going backwards? You mean 20% less, but that's not what I said.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

The Chevy Volt owners were promised the same thing 10 years ago. Didn't happen.

Addressed here.

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Where can I go in Oregon to find a battery swap station for a Tesla? Audi? Bimmer? Nissan? Toyota?

Did I say they had any in Oregon? Does the lack of something now mean it will forever not be?

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Narrow minded single-approach solutions to complex problems probably wastes more time, it stifles innovation.

Goal oriented optimism isn't narrow minded. Defeatist cynicism is.

You never achieve a goal you don't try.

[BGM-M3COMP]

jmg

You're cooking that guy lol.

You make sense. The other guy is in denial, that's why politics is always brought up in any thread, when they have no argument for the actual discussion at hand.

You're definitely making this much easier on me that's for sure. I can just sit back and smile

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by jmg

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/ev-b...ce%20estimates.

Cost to manufacture =/= cost to purchase when you need it in 8-10 years.

Antiquated tech costs more than contemporary tech. I'm not anticipating I'll need to buy a new battery for an EV while the EV is still new, I'm anticipating I'll need it when it becomes antiquated.

We were discussing batteries weren't we? Regardless, some of it is recycled like you said here. Not entirely disposable.

dis·pos·al
/dəˈspōzəl/

noun
1.
the action or process of throwing away or getting rid of something.

dis·pos·a·ble
/dəˈspōzəb(ə)l/

adjective
1.
(of an article) intended to be used once, or until no longer useful, and then thrown away.
"disposable diapers"


You described leasing and getting rid of the car before it has problems as a viable strategy. Don't tell me you don't believe it now...

According to some people here, this is perfectly fine because it's impossible for humans to harm the environment.

I won't respond/defend something I've not said.

What decade is this from?

It's been the same process for the last 30 years. It's the same process today. I take it you've never taken a car to scrap yard? I have. It looks just like that video. They dump the ground up pieces into a kiln like vessel and burn it till the metal melts and everything else has vaporized (smoke) or floated to the top as impurities and taken to a dump.

It takes a lot of energy to do this, and makes a lot of toxic emissions and trash.

Have you looked into the process of recycling gasoline? I asked first.

technically, it's recycled as new plant matter. That's where the carbon and Hydrogen molecules in the long chain hydrocarbons came from after it was distilled from the crude oil. Plants pulled it out of the atmosphere using photosynthesis, and it slowly durned into crude. The hydrocarbons were sequestered for millennia, then pulled up by humans and reacted with oxygen (burned), releasing energy and carbon dioxide. It's what plants crave.

20% improvement is going backwards? You mean 20% less, but that's not what I said.

20% improvement of what ?

taking a average cars lifespan and reducing it due to a drivetrain/technology shift is not making progress on maximizing the energy/resources that went into that car. The process for repurposing those resources is expensive and very dirty. Given the stated goal of being not-dirty, I don't see how there is progress being made.

Did I say they had any in Oregon? Does the lack of something now mean it will forever not be?

When the show up here you can take credit for them. Until then?

Goal oriented optimism isn't narrow minded. Defeatist cynicism is.

You never achieve a goal you don't try.

A lot of wars have been lost with that ideology.