New Ytest
Sign out
Bimmerpost
Login
BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Cosmetic Care & Detailing (PPF/Wash/Wax/Detailing/Restoration/Repairs)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-28-2023, 08:51 PM   #23
Jrock645
Private
80
Rep
90
Posts

 
Drives: BMW X3
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by P1 View Post
I couldn't agree more! 845 is a bit of a pain to apply and remove unless you go really, really thin. But Power Lock has been my go-to for years and years.
I prefer 915, personally.
Appreciate 1
P111158.00
      05-28-2023, 09:26 PM   #24
Forzanerazzurri
Colonel
5340
Rep
2,647
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3 Coupe/G80 M3CX
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Alberta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph III View Post
It really depends on how often you wash and wax your vehicle!

Carnauba waxes do offer UV protection but they only last for a few weeks, as others have stated. As long as you wax your vehicle once a month or so, then you'd be perfectly fine.

Whereas Sealants can offer protection up to 6 months or so. I often use Eagle One "Wax as You Dry" or a spray wax/sealant after washing. So, our vehicles always have a good protective layer. It also makes it easier to wash next time, because contaminants are less likely to stick to the paint.

I still apply Carnauba on occasion for the look, but I depend on the sealants for the protection. I managed a detail business for 14 years, btw. I've also done quite a bit of professional automotive painting. Mostly for myself and family/friends.

I don't typically recommend car covers because those can scratch the paint surface and cause water to sit on the surface. I would recommend using sunshades to help protect the interior though.

Take care,
Ralph
Neither waxes nor sealants provide any material UV protection.
__________________
2022 M3 Competition Xdrive - Grigio Telesto Pearl
2003 M3 Coupe Manual - Steel Grey Metallic
Appreciate 1
chris7196661.00
      05-29-2023, 10:57 AM   #25
diirk
Second Lieutenant
diirk's Avatar
988
Rep
250
Posts

 
Drives: 2023 X3MC BGM
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Get the paint corrected and ceramic coated. That will help exterior UV. Ceramic tint all the windows including windshield and sunroof if you have one. They have clear if preferred.
Covercraft makes on of the best sunshades on the market.
That will take care of the interior.
__________________
23 X3MC BGM. MSS. H&R 12mm spacers
20 4Runner
18 Cayman GTS
15 Beetle Vert
Appreciate 2
      05-29-2023, 11:37 AM   #26
overcoil
Major General
2996
Rep
5,567
Posts

 
Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Neither waxes nor sealants provide any material UV protection.
Iím not so sure carnauba (and other protectants) donít aid in preventing photodegredation.

Cyanotype paper may not be the best predictor.

Google: Carnauba, Cinnimates, UV.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2023, 06:48 PM   #27
Jrock645
Private
80
Rep
90
Posts

 
Drives: BMW X3
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Neither waxes nor sealants provide any material UV protection.
if you could cite references, I'd be interested to see them.
Appreciate 1
      05-29-2023, 07:03 PM   #28
DanG
Major General
DanG's Avatar
United_States
7000
Rep
6,595
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 M2 AW DCT
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [8.54]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Neither waxes nor sealants provide any material UV protection.
Groit's Ceramic wax claims UV protection. https://www.griotsgarage.com/ceramic-3-in-1-wax/
__________________
BMWCCA member Puget Sound Chapter
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2023, 08:40 PM   #29
diirk
Second Lieutenant
diirk's Avatar
988
Rep
250
Posts

 
Drives: 2023 X3MC BGM
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I meant to ask earlier, what color is the car?
Are you in a place where you can erect an actual cover or awning?
__________________
23 X3MC BGM. MSS. H&R 12mm spacers
20 4Runner
18 Cayman GTS
15 Beetle Vert
Appreciate 1
      05-30-2023, 12:44 AM   #30
arucano
Lieutenant
arucano's Avatar
United_States
237
Rep
596
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 M6 Grand Coupe CP
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Kingwood TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 BMW M6 GC  [0.00]
Nearly every product claims UV protection these days. No one quantifies the amount of UV protection their products / coatings actually provide. Research has shown that even ceramic coating provide very little UV protection. Most coatings / waxes and sealants provide environmental protection to reduce the deterioration of the top layer of clearcoat.
I'm sorry but i do not have the links to some of the research papers that I got this information from, but this is not just my opinion.
__________________
F06 M6 Grand Coupe CP
Sapphire Black Metallic
The drive is the destination
Appreciate 1
chris7196661.00
      05-30-2023, 05:03 AM   #31
floridaorange
Colonel
floridaorange's Avatar
United_States
8473
Rep
2,611
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 bmw 320i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: orlando, fl

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by diirk View Post
I meant to ask earlier, what color is the car?
Are you in a place where you can erect an actual cover or awning?
White. So the car used to get a fair amount of shade but then our boat had to be parked there instead - we move the car for the kids to play basketball so an awning isnít ideal for that space. Guess a car cover is the best route.
__________________
Stage 2 BM3

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2023, 06:43 AM   #32
Westside Guy
Brigadier General
Westside Guy's Avatar
United_States
3423
Rep
3,295
Posts

 
Drives: 2022 Z4 M40i, 2021 228i GC
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Hallandale Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
White. So the car used to get a fair amount of shade but then our boat had to be parked there instead - we move the car for the kids to play basketball so an awning isnít ideal for that space. Guess a car cover is the best route.
When you order the car cover make sure it has the side mirror pockets which help to hold it in place. Also order the clips and bungee cords that will secure it on windy days.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 2
      06-08-2023, 09:44 AM   #33
Ralph III
Enlisted Member
United_States
59
Rep
42
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 BMW 650i Gran Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Alabama

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Neither waxes nor sealants provide any material UV protection.
FALSE! Please provide something definitive to back up that erroneous statement. Otherwise, you are attempting to refute the scientific community and an entire scientific industry, as well as real world experience.

1. Most or all automotive paint sealants use polymers, such as acrylic or polyurethane, which are scientifically shown to be UV inhibitors. That's why they use them in automotive sealants.

2. Carnauba wax is found within the leaves of Palm trees. These carnauba waxes protect the leaves from damaging UV sun rays, water, and heat, etc. They probably wouldn't survive without it. These natural protective qualities is why Carnauba wax became the industry standard for automotive finish protection and luster, and still is. In addition, synthetic ingredients are added to make the natural carnauba waxes useful and in many instances, giving it even greater UV protection.

The natural components of Carnauba waxes are also used in the cosmetic industry such as Sunscreen for people..."Carnauba wax is partially composed of cinnamates. The rational combination of cinnamates and titanium dioxide has shown a synergistic effect to improve the sun protection factor (SPF) of cosmetic preparations.....Strong UV absorption was observed in diluted suspensions of titanium dioxide after the addition of cinnamates." National Library of Medicine.

3. I was a professional Detailer for 14 years and I've also professionally painted a dozen or more vehicles. I've been maintaining my own vehicles for 40 years. This includes neglecting a few work vehicles over those decades. So, I've seen and dealt with the results of automotive finishes which were cared for and automotive finishes which were neglected on both a personal as well as a profession level.

Sealants and Carnauba Waxes most assuredly help protect your vehicle from damaging UV rays! They are not the Do-All or End-All but they are extremely effective and helpful. First, they offer UV protection themselves. Secondly, they act as a sacrificial layer for the automotive clear coat. Lastly, in addition to car washes they help the clear coat to properly perform it's job as the greatest UV barrier; by effectively keeping the surface clear of contaminants that can degrade the clear coat.

4. Reputable manufacturers offer independent documentation if interested. This was provided to me by Optimum, "Optimum Spray Wax has patented UV protection, see patent 6,685,765 for UV protection that includes independent test results."



Ralph

Last edited by Ralph III; 06-08-2023 at 10:25 AM..
Appreciate 2
DanG6999.50
      06-08-2023, 10:16 AM   #34
originalgoods13
Captain
Canada
288
Rep
625
Posts

 
Drives: Chevy Spark
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary, Canada

iTrader: (0)

It has been 2 years since I have been using these combo products and I absolutely like them.

The GYEON is great on black trims and The Last Coat for textured trims like mudflaps and unpainted plastic.

Ultra Lock has the best gloss I have tried. Place two coats on flat surfaces like the hood, roof, etc...

All are under $100, no need for ceramic coating services which is 10x the price.


Appreciate 2
      06-08-2023, 11:51 AM   #35
Forzanerazzurri
Colonel
5340
Rep
2,647
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3 Coupe/G80 M3CX
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Alberta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph III View Post
FALSE! Please provide something definitive to back up that erroneous statement. Otherwise, you are attempting to refute the scientific community and an entire scientific industry, as well as real world experience.

1. Most or all automotive paint sealants use polymers, such as acrylic or polyurethane, which are scientifically shown to be UV inhibitors. That's why they use them in automotive sealants.

2. Carnauba wax is found within the leaves of Palm trees. These carnauba waxes protect the leaves from damaging UV sun rays, water, and heat, etc. They probably wouldn't survive without it. These natural protective qualities is why Carnauba wax became the industry standard for automotive finish protection and luster, and still is. In addition, synthetic ingredients are added to make the natural carnauba waxes useful and in many instances, giving it even greater UV protection.

The natural components of Carnauba waxes are also used in the cosmetic industry such as Sunscreen for people..."Carnauba wax is partially composed of cinnamates. The rational combination of cinnamates and titanium dioxide has shown a synergistic effect to improve the sun protection factor (SPF) of cosmetic preparations.....Strong UV absorption was observed in diluted suspensions of titanium dioxide after the addition of cinnamates." National Library of Medicine.

3. I was a professional Detailer for 14 years and I've also professionally painted a dozen or more vehicles. I've been maintaining my own vehicles for 40 years. This includes neglecting a few work vehicles over those decades. So, I've seen and dealt with the results of automotive finishes which were cared for and automotive finishes which were neglected on both a personal as well as a profession level.

Sealants and Carnauba Waxes most assuredly help protect your vehicle from damaging UV rays! They are not the Do-All or End-All but they are extremely effective and helpful. First, they offer UV protection themselves. Secondly, they act as a sacrificial layer for the automotive clear coat. Lastly, in addition to car washes they help the clear coat to properly perform it's job as the greatest UV barrier; by effectively keeping the surface clear of contaminants that can degrade the clear coat.

4. Reputable manufacturers offer independent documentation if interested. This was provided to me by Optimum, "Optimum Spray Wax has patented UV protection, see patent 6,685,765 for UV protection that includes independent test results."



Ralph
OK RALPH, carry on with your microscopic layer of UV protection!
__________________
2022 M3 Competition Xdrive - Grigio Telesto Pearl
2003 M3 Coupe Manual - Steel Grey Metallic
Appreciate 0
      06-08-2023, 12:45 PM   #36
Ralph III
Enlisted Member
United_States
59
Rep
42
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 BMW 650i Gran Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Alabama

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
OK RALPH, carry on with your microscopic layer of UV protection!
I shall Forzan. I will also continue to offer accurate and good advice to folks who desire such.

Otherwise, the image below is of our 16 year old, 2007 BMW 530xi, with 255k miles on it. It is a daily driver and not garage kept. We also live on the AL/MS Gulf Coast with it's salt, heat, rain, and humidity. The paint is still in near pristine condition but only because of regular washes and use of waxes and sealants. Sealants and waxes that I used both professionally and personally. Such that you erroneously stated offer no UV protection.

So, it's simply a disservice to everyone for you to make erroneous and inaccurate statements and following up with a snarky post is a little petty. Just man-up and move on. It's pretty easy.....

Take care,
Ralph
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Ralph III; 06-08-2023 at 12:51 PM..
Appreciate 3
      06-08-2023, 01:27 PM   #37
Forzanerazzurri
Colonel
5340
Rep
2,647
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3 Coupe/G80 M3CX
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Alberta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph III View Post
I shall Forzan. I will also continue to offer accurate and good advice to folks who desire such.

Otherwise, the image below is of our 16 year old, 2007 BMW 530xi, with 255k miles on it. It is a daily driver and not garage kept. We also live on the AL/MS Gulf Coast with it's salt, heat, rain, and humidity. The paint is still in near pristine condition but only because of regular washes and use of waxes and sealants. Sealants and waxes that I used both professionally and personally. Such that you erroneously stated offer no UV protection.

So, it's simply a disservice to everyone for you to make erroneous and inaccurate statements and following up with a snarky post is a little petty. Just man-up and move on. It's pretty easy.....

Take care,
Ralph

Thanks for the anecdote Ralph, good thing you put that microscopic layer of sealant on your car, that 2mils of UV inhibitors in BMW clear coat never stood a chance!
__________________
2022 M3 Competition Xdrive - Grigio Telesto Pearl
2003 M3 Coupe Manual - Steel Grey Metallic
Appreciate 1
chris7196661.00
      06-08-2023, 05:08 PM   #38
clutchdj
Colonel
1647
Rep
2,275
Posts

 
Drives: a few cars
Join Date: May 2015
Location: NY

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
My wifeís xc90 sits in the sun probably half the day before shade from our oak tree helps block the rays. What do you reccomend for keeping the car protected from the rather constant sun exposure?
Xpel if the cars a keeper over 5-8 yrs
Appreciate 2
chris7196661.00
      06-08-2023, 07:18 PM   #39
chris719
Major General
6661
Rep
6,785
Posts

 
Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
Thanks for the anecdote Ralph, good thing you put that microscopic layer of sealant on your car, that 2mils of UV inhibitors in BMW clear coat never stood a chance!
Yep. PPF helps, but waxes, sealants, and ceramic coatings provide relatively little UV protection. They provide more than zero, but not a ton. The average ceramic coating is around 2 microns thick or so. There's simply no way they can do much, especially against the longer wavelengths. If they were any good, the companies would be showing you data or coming up with a metric.
Appreciate 1
      06-08-2023, 08:26 PM   #40
Forzanerazzurri
Colonel
5340
Rep
2,647
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3 Coupe/G80 M3CX
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Alberta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Yep. PPF helps, but waxes, sealants, and ceramic coatings provide relatively little UV protection. They provide more than zero, but not a ton. The average ceramic coating is around 2 microns thick or so. There's simply no way they can do much, especially against the longer wavelengths. If they were any good, the companies would be showing you data or coming up with a metric.
PPG states that it's clear coat even needs to be at least 2 mils thick (50 microns or about as thick as a grocery bag) to be able to absorb the UV with the chemistry it uses in its modern clear coat (which is incredible at UV protection). Thinking that a ceramic, sealant or wax that's 2 microns thick is going to block UV is hilarious.
__________________
2022 M3 Competition Xdrive - Grigio Telesto Pearl
2003 M3 Coupe Manual - Steel Grey Metallic
Appreciate 1
chris7196661.00
      06-08-2023, 09:05 PM   #41
overcoil
Major General
2996
Rep
5,567
Posts

 
Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
PPG states that it's clear coat even needs to be at least 2 mils thick (50 microns or about as thick as a grocery bag) to be able to absorb the UV with the chemistry it uses in its modern clear coat (which is incredible at UV protection). Thinking that a ceramic, sealant or wax that's 2 microns thick is going to block UV is hilarious.


Itís probably not that the wax has to be a complete barrier. Itís that the wax has something sacrificial to offer for the atoms (which cause oxidation) to react with that isnít the clear coat or paint or resin.
Also above and beyond washing, waxing is another form of cleaning acid fall-out that the UV canít react with and cause damage.
Appreciate 0
      06-08-2023, 09:38 PM   #42
Forzanerazzurri
Colonel
5340
Rep
2,647
Posts

 
Drives: E46 M3 Coupe/G80 M3CX
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Alberta

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by overcoil View Post
Itís probably not that the wax has to be a complete barrier. Itís that the wax has something sacrificial to offer for the atoms (which cause oxidation) to react with that isnít the clear coat or paint or resin.
Also above and beyond washing, waxing is another form of cleaning acid fall-out that the UV canít react with and cause damage.
Clear coat was originally put on cars to be that layer of protection for the cars actual paint. Modern clear coat doesn't fail like it used to anyway and it doesn't need a "sacrificial layer". Wax and sealants do not offer material UV protection period.

__________________
2022 M3 Competition Xdrive - Grigio Telesto Pearl
2003 M3 Coupe Manual - Steel Grey Metallic
Appreciate 1
chris7196661.00
      06-09-2023, 01:20 AM   #43
KevinC
your average JAMF
KevinC's Avatar
United_States
5254
Rep
3,925
Posts

 
Drives: '21 M2 Comp, '19 Golf R
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cochise County, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri View Post
OK RALPH, carry on with your microscopic layer of UV protection!
__________________
'21 M2 Comp
'19 Golf R
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2023, 08:04 AM   #44
floridaorange
Colonel
floridaorange's Avatar
United_States
8473
Rep
2,611
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 bmw 320i xdrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: orlando, fl

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph III View Post
I shall Forzan. I will also continue to offer accurate and good advice to folks who desire such.

Otherwise, the image below is of our 16 year old, 2007 BMW 530xi, with 255k miles on it. It is a daily driver and not garage kept. We also live on the AL/MS Gulf Coast with it's salt, heat, rain, and humidity. The paint is still in near pristine condition but only because of regular washes and use of waxes and sealants. Sealants and waxes that I used both professionally and personally. Such that you erroneously stated offer no UV protection.

So, it's simply a disservice to everyone for you to make erroneous and inaccurate statements and following up with a snarky post is a little petty. Just man-up and move on. It's pretty easy.....

Take care,
Ralph
Wow impressive - so wax & sealants - how often quarterly or every 6 mos?
__________________
Stage 2 BM3

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST