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      08-04-2019, 01:13 PM   #2311
ynguldyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
Does anyone know (SCOTT?) if it's finalized that the G22 4 Series Coupe will not be receiving a manual transmission in any trim level?
I have found several independent confirmations of this.

(Top post updated with this and also another M2 version.)
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      08-04-2019, 08:13 PM   #2312
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I have figured out how to distinguish between automatic and manual G80s (hey BMW, kudos to whoever came up with that "X"). And yes, this means all the recent interviews and "leaks" are true, and G80 will offer a choice of transmissions.
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      08-04-2019, 10:29 PM   #2313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I have figured out how to distinguish between automatic and manual G80s (hey BMW, kudos to whoever came up with that "X"). And yes, this means all the recent interviews and "leaks" are true, and G80 will offer a choice of transmissions.
That’s good news.

Do you think you will eventually be able to determine which combinations of transmission, drive wheels, and power output will be offered? Or will that have to wait until specs are made expressly public by BMW?
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      08-05-2019, 12:25 AM   #2314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thatís good news.

Do you think you will eventually be able to determine which combinations of transmission, drive wheels, and power output will be offered? Or will that have to wait until specs are made expressly public by BMW?
I said this about 8 weeks ago when we thought there might be 3 specs of engine and there were rumours that one option was going to be dropped and EVERYONE thought it was the manual option that instead it would be that instead of having 3 power options that it would be cut down to 2 in order to match the already emissions certified 2 versions available in the X3M/X4M.

I'm going to guess the 480ps spec engine will be the only option for the manual rwd car and the zf8at cars will be available as 480ps for the normal one, or 510ps for the comp pack.

I'm going to say there is 0% chance that 6mt and awd will be a thing.
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      08-05-2019, 12:32 AM   #2315
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replying to myself, so sad. I'm referencing this post

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=296
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      08-05-2019, 08:47 AM   #2316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I said this about 8 weeks ago when we thought there might be 3 specs of engine and there were rumours that one option was going to be dropped and EVERYONE thought it was the manual option that instead it would be that instead of having 3 power options that it would be cut down to 2 in order to match the already emissions certified 2 versions available in the X3M/X4M.
Yes, that was my prediction last year when ynguldyn first wrote about powertrain details:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post23905991

Still, the possibility that the manual transmission won't properly handle the torque produced by even the would-be baseline S58 as found in the standard X3/X4 M (and presumably the upcoming standard AWD M3/M4) has some merit. Factor in the likelihood that the S58+6MT combo will also be headed to the G87 M2 which will surely continue to be separated from the standard M3/M4 in part by having a lower engine output, and this idea has legs.

Quote:
I'm going to say there is 0% chance that 6mt and awd will be a thing.
I would agree.

But, the reason I asked ynguldyn the question in my post wasn't because I don't think we have honed in on the likely specs with a high degree of certainty. On the contrary, I think that the community has collectively pieced things together what is probably a pretty accurate picture of the G80's mechanical specifications. Rather, I am looking for 100% confirmation. And while I personally think that the exact engine output of the expected RWD 6MT model - whether it be the same as the standard AWD model or slightly less - to be a minor point, there is a vocal fanbase who is very concerned about that number.
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      08-05-2019, 01:28 PM   #2317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Yes, that was my prediction last year when ynguldyn first wrote about powertrain details:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post23905991

Still the possibility that the manual transmission won't properly handle the torque produced by even the would-be baseline S58 as found in the standard X3/X4 M (and presumably the upcoming standard AWD M3/M4) has some merit. Factor in the likelihood that the S58+6MT combo will also be headed to the G87 M2 which will surely continue to be separated from the standard M3/M4 in part by having a lower engine output, and this idea has legs.



I would agree.

But, the reason I asked ynguldyn the question in my post wasn't because I don't think we have honed in on the likely specs with a high degree of certainty. On the contrary, I think that the community has collectively pieced things together what is probably a pretty accurate picture of the G80's mechanical specifications. Rather, I am looking for 100% confirmation. And while I personally think that the exact engine output of the expected RWD 6MT model - whether it be the same as the standard AWD model or slightly less - to be a minor point, there is a vocal fanbase who is very concerned about that number.
Agreed with all of that. It would be a shame if the 6MT was nerfed just because they wanted to nerf it to create a point of difference.

The F10 M5 and F06/12/13 M6 were available with the 6MT with 575ps and 500ftlb, the S58 is going to be nowhere near those figures. I don't see why the 510ps and 442lbft in the Competition would be a problem other than marketing. I'd guess that at higher speeds the 6MT will have quite a bit less drag than the zf8at + awd combo and maybe BMW would be worried about the 6MT being better at higher speeds.
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      08-05-2019, 01:48 PM   #2318
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Is there confirmation that BMW will offer the 4 series GC in 2021 (probably as a 2022 model)? Have seen little written on this. Thanks.
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      08-05-2019, 05:51 PM   #2319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
But, the reason I asked ynguldyn the question in my post wasn't because I don't think we have honed in on the likely specs with a high degree of certainty. On the contrary, I think that the community has collectively pieced things together what is probably a pretty accurate picture of the G80's mechanical specifications. Rather, I am looking for 100% confirmation. And while I personally think that the exact engine output of the expected RWD 6MT model - whether it be the same as the standard AWD model or slightly less - to be a minor point, there is a vocal fanbase who is very concerned about that number.
I've just added everything I can say about G80 to the top post. Though I still feel like I'm on shaky ground here.

If anything, I suspect my confusion and the resulting collective hair pulling on this site are partially to blame for the concrete info coming out of BMW executives' mouths and the weird photo "leak" from Madrid. So it seems like it ultimately worked to our benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Is there confirmation that BMW will offer the 4 series GC in 2021 (probably as a 2022 model)? Have seen little written on this. Thanks.
Yes, it's coming. It's just too soon to give precise details.
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      08-05-2019, 10:17 PM   #2320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I've just added everything I can say about G80 to the top post. Though I still feel like I'm on shaky ground here.
Thanks for giving more detail. I really appreciate you sharing what you are able to despite not having complete confidence. To me that shows trust in the community.

Assuming that the three-model lineup is indeed correct, it would be a little surprising if the ďmiddleĒ configuration ends up being RWD Competition instead of AWD non-Competition. However, I admit that the biggest reason I think that is that itís easiest to simply assume the M3/M4 lineup will be a superset of the X3/X4 M, M5/M8, and (presumably) X5/X6 M lineups. Yet, that neednít necessarily be the case. That being said, I feel like it would be a little weird if thereís just one G83 configuration.

Either way, this is fun. I cant recall a future model release surrounded in so much mystery and intrigue. Not to mention the plot twists. Iím sure BMW is loving all the hype.
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      08-06-2019, 12:24 AM   #2321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Iím sure BMW is loving all the hype.
Or people not talking about the potential grill design
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      08-06-2019, 04:44 AM   #2322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I have found several independent confirmations of this.

(Top post updated with this and also another M2 version.)
Any information about this another M2 version such as start of production?
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      08-06-2019, 08:06 AM   #2323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thanks for giving more detail. I really appreciate you sharing what you are able to despite not having complete confidence. To me that shows trust in the community.

Assuming that the three-model lineup is indeed correct, it would be a little surprising if the "middle" configuration ends up being RWD Competition instead of AWD non-Competition. However, I admit that the biggest reason I think that is that it's easiest to simply assume the M3/M4 lineup will be a superset of the X3/X4 M, M5/M8, and (presumably) X5/X6 M lineups. However, that needn't necessarily be the case. That being said, I feel like it would be a little weird if there's just one G83 configuration.

Either way, this is fun. I cant recall a future model release surrounded in so much mystery and intrigue. Not to mention the plot twists. I'm sure BMW is loving all the hype.
Taking a look at the overall marketing strategy, the launch of the X3 M and M8, and the sales numbers the last few years for the current M3/M4, it's looking like the pivot confusing the speculators (which I happily play along as) might be that the Competition model is expected to be the volume seller. Everything has been focused on the Competition models. I think some markets are only getting Competition models for the X3/X4 M.

We tend to look at product strategy as a ladder going up, but I think they are looking at it the opposite direction: deliver the Competition model as the most desirable volume seller (and most profitable), assume those willing to pay for xDrive will also willingly pay for the Competition model (regardless of the debate on RWD vs AWD as a preference, BMW feels M xDrive is a dry weather performance plus up), offer the base model as the down market (and lower priced) bridge to the M340i.

It's not like the whole drivetrain isn't engineered already from the X3 M so that if the market demands a base xDrive they can't deliver it rapidly.
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      08-06-2019, 08:43 AM   #2324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Taking a look at the overall marketing strategy, the launch of the X3 M and M8, and the sales numbers the last few years for the current M3/M4, it's looking like the pivot confusing the speculators (which I happily playing along as) might be that the Competition model is expected to be the volume seller. Everything has been focused on the Competition models. I think some markets are only getting Competition models for the X3/X4 M.

We tend to look at product strategy as a ladder going up, but I think they are looking at it the opposite direction: deliver the Competition model as the most desirable volume seller (and most profitable), assume those willing to pay for xDrive will also willingly pay for the Competition model (regardless of the debate on RWD vs AWD as a preference, BMW feels M xDrive is a dry weather performance plus up), offer the base model as the down market (and lower priced) bridge to the M340i.
Actually, I think that strategy became evident over the past few years as BMW has aggressively expanded the two-model (well, two regularly occurring - the new CS and upcoming revived CSL nameplates are the new up-sells) M lineup. We've had a pretty good idea for quite sometime that BMW saw what Mercedes was doing with the "S" step-up model, which sells through at something like 85%, and realized they were leaving cash on the table.

Quote:
It's not like the whole drivetrain isn't engineered already from the X3 M so that if the market demands a base xDrive they can't deliver it rapidly.
Absolutely.
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      08-06-2019, 10:56 AM   #2325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I have found several independent confirmations of this.

(Top post updated with this and also another M2 version.)
Is this M2 version a CSL? Any confirmation about production dates?
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      08-06-2019, 11:20 AM   #2326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
August 2019
  • G22 is 100% confirmed to be automatic only in the US. The same is true for all non-US G22 models available at market intro (I'm leaving open the possibility of a later non-US model addition that would have a manual, but even that is unlikely in my opinion). Confirmed US models are 430i, 430i xDrive, and M440i xDrive. M440i (RWD) is also possible but not yet confirmed.
The G82 is the last chance for us 6MT coupe lovers as long as it's not fugly (still nervous about the grille situation), unless they don't nerf the options on the G87 like they did for the F87. Gotsta have my HUD and top view cameras if I'm paying 60k+.

Edit: Also, do you have any info on the cancelled models? I heard the Z4 and 8 series coupe future generations are already being cancelled among some others?
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Last edited by kern417; 08-06-2019 at 11:56 AM..
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      08-06-2019, 11:37 AM   #2327
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...unless they don't nerf the options on the G87 like they did for the F87. Gotsta have my HUD and top view cameras if I'm paying 60k+.
Those options were not left off of the F87 arbitrarily. They were not present because the F87 is based on the F22, and that product does not have those features available. Let's remember that the M Division is in charge of building Series products into performance machines. They don't add luxury and tech goodies. Those things need to be integrated into the DNA of the vehicle from the start, and it would be a waste of M Division's resources to get involved in all of those details. So, if you want more of that than the Series model provides, you will indeed have to step up to a higher tier on the BMW food chain once again.

All that is to say, if the G42 does not have HUD and surround view cameras (and I'm not saying it won't), and those things are high enough priority to you that their absence overshadows what will probably be the very last small BMW coupe with a manual transmission, then you can safely ignore the future G87 before we even see it without camouflage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Edit: Also, do you have any info on the cancelled models? I heard the Z4 and 8 series coupe future generations are already being cancelled among some others?
That is still just rumor, and even if those products will not return for a future generation, the current models will most likely stick around for at least a few years if not their originally planned, approximately seven year lifespan. As such, it will be years before the lack of preliminary information for future generations in the pipeline could start to be leveraged as a reliable way to call them dead for good.
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      08-06-2019, 02:28 PM   #2328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Those options were not left off of the F87 arbitrarily. They were not present because the F87 is based on the F22, and that product does not have those features available. Let's remember that the M Division is in charge of building Series products into performance machines. They don't add luxury and tech goodies. Those things need to be integrated into the DNA of the vehicle from the start, and it would be a waste of M Division's resources to get involved in all of those details. So, if you want more of that than the Series model provides, you will indeed have to step up to a higher tier on the BMW food chain once again.

All that is to say, if the G42 does not have HUD and surround view cameras (and I'm not saying it won't), and those things are high enough priority to you that their absence overshadows what will probably be the very last small BMW coupe with a manual transmission, then you can safely ignore the future G87 before we even see it without camouflage.
Trust me, I understand how it works. But offering basically 4 options on your top-tier model in that line was quite a buzzkill at the price point. It was basically a tuned M235i. At least now the M2C has a competent engine. But I'd hope that the G87 has something more to offer than relying on people getting it because it's the //M with the shortest wheel base.
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As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
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      08-07-2019, 09:39 AM   #2329
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Any hint of a M4 Gran Coupe?
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      08-07-2019, 09:40 AM   #2330
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Sooooo DCT is officially dead?
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      08-07-2019, 09:42 AM   #2331
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Sooooo DCT is officially dead?
Looks like it, ouch it hurts big time

I will take MT
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      08-07-2019, 09:43 AM   #2332
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Any word or spy pics of the new grills... I cannot wait another year to find out.
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