Sign out
Bimmerpost
Login
BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-05-2019, 12:25 AM   #2311
brad850csi
Major
442
Rep
1,433
Posts

 
Drives: 16 F13 M6 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That’s good news.

Do you think you will eventually be able to determine which combinations of transmission, drive wheels, and power output will be offered? Or will that have to wait until specs are made expressly public by BMW?
I said this about 8 weeks ago when we thought there might be 3 specs of engine and there were rumours that one option was going to be dropped and EVERYONE thought it was the manual option that instead it would be that instead of having 3 power options that it would be cut down to 2 in order to match the already emissions certified 2 versions available in the X3M/X4M.

I'm going to guess the 480ps spec engine will be the only option for the manual rwd car and the zf8at cars will be available as 480ps for the normal one, or 510ps for the comp pack.

I'm going to say there is 0% chance that 6mt and awd will be a thing.
__________________
SCOTT26 "So as an admirer of the M5 and a potential customer of an M5 Touring. I would run naked around the streets of Garching if they were to offer one."
Appreciate 2
kern4171844.50
JTO242199.50

      08-05-2019, 12:32 AM   #2312
brad850csi
Major
442
Rep
1,433
Posts

 
Drives: 16 F13 M6 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

replying to myself, so sad. I'm referencing this post

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=296
__________________
SCOTT26 "So as an admirer of the M5 and a potential customer of an M5 Touring. I would run naked around the streets of Garching if they were to offer one."
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2019, 08:47 AM   #2313
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
5173
Rep
18,318
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I said this about 8 weeks ago when we thought there might be 3 specs of engine and there were rumours that one option was going to be dropped and EVERYONE thought it was the manual option that instead it would be that instead of having 3 power options that it would be cut down to 2 in order to match the already emissions certified 2 versions available in the X3M/X4M.
Yes, that was my prediction last year when ynguldyn first wrote about powertrain details:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post23905991

Still, the possibility that the manual transmission won't properly handle the torque produced by even the would-be baseline S58 as found in the standard X3/X4 M (and presumably the upcoming standard AWD M3/M4) has some merit. Factor in the likelihood that the S58+6MT combo will also be headed to the G87 M2 which will surely continue to be separated from the standard M3/M4 in part by having a lower engine output, and this idea has legs.

Quote:
I'm going to say there is 0% chance that 6mt and awd will be a thing.
I would agree.

But, the reason I asked ynguldyn the question in my post wasn't because I don't think we have honed in on the likely specs with a high degree of certainty. On the contrary, I think that the community has collectively pieced things together what is probably a pretty accurate picture of the G80's mechanical specifications. Rather, I am looking for 100% confirmation. And while I personally think that the exact engine output of the expected RWD 6MT model - whether it be the same as the standard AWD model or slightly less - to be a minor point, there is a vocal fanbase who is very concerned about that number.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2019, 01:28 PM   #2314
brad850csi
Major
442
Rep
1,433
Posts

 
Drives: 16 F13 M6 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Yes, that was my prediction last year when ynguldyn first wrote about powertrain details:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post23905991

Still the possibility that the manual transmission won't properly handle the torque produced by even the would-be baseline S58 as found in the standard X3/X4 M (and presumably the upcoming standard AWD M3/M4) has some merit. Factor in the likelihood that the S58+6MT combo will also be headed to the G87 M2 which will surely continue to be separated from the standard M3/M4 in part by having a lower engine output, and this idea has legs.



I would agree.

But, the reason I asked ynguldyn the question in my post wasn't because I don't think we have honed in on the likely specs with a high degree of certainty. On the contrary, I think that the community has collectively pieced things together what is probably a pretty accurate picture of the G80's mechanical specifications. Rather, I am looking for 100% confirmation. And while I personally think that the exact engine output of the expected RWD 6MT model - whether it be the same as the standard AWD model or slightly less - to be a minor point, there is a vocal fanbase who is very concerned about that number.
Agreed with all of that. It would be a shame if the 6MT was nerfed just because they wanted to nerf it to create a point of difference.

The F10 M5 and F06/12/13 M6 were available with the 6MT with 575ps and 500ftlb, the S58 is going to be nowhere near those figures. I don't see why the 510ps and 442lbft in the Competition would be a problem other than marketing. I'd guess that at higher speeds the 6MT will have quite a bit less drag than the zf8at + awd combo and maybe BMW would be worried about the 6MT being better at higher speeds.
__________________
SCOTT26 "So as an admirer of the M5 and a potential customer of an M5 Touring. I would run naked around the streets of Garching if they were to offer one."
Appreciate 1
pyrat1535.50

      08-05-2019, 01:48 PM   #2315
MikeTerp
Second Lieutenant
United_States
25
Rep
277
Posts

 
Drives: 2016 F30/340
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Is there confirmation that BMW will offer the 4 series GC in 2021 (probably as a 2022 model)? Have seen little written on this. Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2019, 05:51 PM   #2316
ynguldyn
Colonel
2725
Rep
2,070
Posts

 
Drives: battery powered tv on wheels
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
But, the reason I asked ynguldyn the question in my post wasn't because I don't think we have honed in on the likely specs with a high degree of certainty. On the contrary, I think that the community has collectively pieced things together what is probably a pretty accurate picture of the G80's mechanical specifications. Rather, I am looking for 100% confirmation. And while I personally think that the exact engine output of the expected RWD 6MT model - whether it be the same as the standard AWD model or slightly less - to be a minor point, there is a vocal fanbase who is very concerned about that number.
I've just added everything I can say about G80 to the top post. Though I still feel like I'm on shaky ground here.

If anything, I suspect my confusion and the resulting collective hair pulling on this site are partially to blame for the concrete info coming out of BMW executives' mouths and the weird photo "leak" from Madrid. So it seems like it ultimately worked to our benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Is there confirmation that BMW will offer the 4 series GC in 2021 (probably as a 2022 model)? Have seen little written on this. Thanks.
Yes, it's coming. It's just too soon to give precise details.
Appreciate 2
mkoesel5173.00
kern4171844.50

      08-05-2019, 10:17 PM   #2317
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
5173
Rep
18,318
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I've just added everything I can say about G80 to the top post. Though I still feel like I'm on shaky ground here.
Thanks for giving more detail. I really appreciate you sharing what you are able to despite not having complete confidence. To me that shows trust in the community.

Assuming that the three-model lineup is indeed correct, it would be a little surprising if the “middle” configuration ends up being RWD Competition instead of AWD non-Competition. However, I admit that the biggest reason I think that is that it’s easiest to simply assume the M3/M4 lineup will be a superset of the X3/X4 M, M5/M8, and (presumably) X5/X6 M lineups. Yet, that needn’t necessarily be the case. That being said, I feel like it would be a little weird if there’s just one G83 configuration.

Either way, this is fun. I cant recall a future model release surrounded in so much mystery and intrigue. Not to mention the plot twists. I’m sure BMW is loving all the hype.
Appreciate 1
JTO242199.50

      08-06-2019, 12:24 AM   #2318
brad850csi
Major
442
Rep
1,433
Posts

 
Drives: 16 F13 M6 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I’m sure BMW is loving all the hype.
Or people not talking about the potential grill design
__________________
SCOTT26 "So as an admirer of the M5 and a potential customer of an M5 Touring. I would run naked around the streets of Garching if they were to offer one."
Appreciate 1
ZHPsedan128.00

      08-06-2019, 04:44 AM   #2319
RPM33
Second Lieutenant
84
Rep
267
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I have found several independent confirmations of this.

(Top post updated with this and also another M2 version.)
Any information about this another M2 version such as start of production?
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2019, 08:06 AM   #2320
xlover
Major
No_Country
572
Rep
1,160
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 440 xdrive MPPSK
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 440 xdrive  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thanks for giving more detail. I really appreciate you sharing what you are able to despite not having complete confidence. To me that shows trust in the community.

Assuming that the three-model lineup is indeed correct, it would be a little surprising if the "middle" configuration ends up being RWD Competition instead of AWD non-Competition. However, I admit that the biggest reason I think that is that it's easiest to simply assume the M3/M4 lineup will be a superset of the X3/X4 M, M5/M8, and (presumably) X5/X6 M lineups. However, that needn't necessarily be the case. That being said, I feel like it would be a little weird if there's just one G83 configuration.

Either way, this is fun. I cant recall a future model release surrounded in so much mystery and intrigue. Not to mention the plot twists. I'm sure BMW is loving all the hype.
Taking a look at the overall marketing strategy, the launch of the X3 M and M8, and the sales numbers the last few years for the current M3/M4, it's looking like the pivot confusing the speculators (which I happily play along as) might be that the Competition model is expected to be the volume seller. Everything has been focused on the Competition models. I think some markets are only getting Competition models for the X3/X4 M.

We tend to look at product strategy as a ladder going up, but I think they are looking at it the opposite direction: deliver the Competition model as the most desirable volume seller (and most profitable), assume those willing to pay for xDrive will also willingly pay for the Competition model (regardless of the debate on RWD vs AWD as a preference, BMW feels M xDrive is a dry weather performance plus up), offer the base model as the down market (and lower priced) bridge to the M340i.

It's not like the whole drivetrain isn't engineered already from the X3 M so that if the market demands a base xDrive they can't deliver it rapidly.
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2019, 08:43 AM   #2321
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
5173
Rep
18,318
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Taking a look at the overall marketing strategy, the launch of the X3 M and M8, and the sales numbers the last few years for the current M3/M4, it's looking like the pivot confusing the speculators (which I happily playing along as) might be that the Competition model is expected to be the volume seller. Everything has been focused on the Competition models. I think some markets are only getting Competition models for the X3/X4 M.

We tend to look at product strategy as a ladder going up, but I think they are looking at it the opposite direction: deliver the Competition model as the most desirable volume seller (and most profitable), assume those willing to pay for xDrive will also willingly pay for the Competition model (regardless of the debate on RWD vs AWD as a preference, BMW feels M xDrive is a dry weather performance plus up), offer the base model as the down market (and lower priced) bridge to the M340i.
Actually, I think that strategy became evident over the past few years as BMW has aggressively expanded the two-model (well, two regularly occurring - the new CS and upcoming revived CSL nameplates are the new up-sells) M lineup. We've had a pretty good idea for quite sometime that BMW saw what Mercedes was doing with the "S" step-up model, which sells through at something like 85%, and realized they were leaving cash on the table.

Quote:
It's not like the whole drivetrain isn't engineered already from the X3 M so that if the market demands a base xDrive they can't deliver it rapidly.
Absolutely.
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2019, 10:56 AM   #2322
RPM33
Second Lieutenant
84
Rep
267
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I have found several independent confirmations of this.

(Top post updated with this and also another M2 version.)
Is this M2 version a CSL? Any confirmation about production dates?
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2019, 11:20 AM   #2323
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
1845
Rep
2,865
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
August 2019
  • G22 is 100% confirmed to be automatic only in the US. The same is true for all non-US G22 models available at market intro (I'm leaving open the possibility of a later non-US model addition that would have a manual, but even that is unlikely in my opinion). Confirmed US models are 430i, 430i xDrive, and M440i xDrive. M440i (RWD) is also possible but not yet confirmed.
The G82 is the last chance for us 6MT coupe lovers as long as it's not fugly (still nervous about the grille situation), unless they don't nerf the options on the G87 like they did for the F87. Gotsta have my HUD and top view cameras if I'm paying 60k+.

Edit: Also, do you have any info on the cancelled models? I heard the Z4 and 8 series coupe future generations are already being cancelled among some others?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.

Last edited by kern417; 08-06-2019 at 11:56 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2019, 11:37 AM   #2324
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
5173
Rep
18,318
Posts

 
Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
...unless they don't nerf the options on the G87 like they did for the F87. Gotsta have my HUD and top view cameras if I'm paying 60k+.
Those options were not left off of the F87 arbitrarily. They were not present because the F87 is based on the F22, and that product does not have those features available. Let's remember that the M Division is in charge of building Series products into performance machines. They don't add luxury and tech goodies. Those things need to be integrated into the DNA of the vehicle from the start, and it would be a waste of M Division's resources to get involved in all of those details. So, if you want more of that than the Series model provides, you will indeed have to step up to a higher tier on the BMW food chain once again.

All that is to say, if the G42 does not have HUD and surround view cameras (and I'm not saying it won't), and those things are high enough priority to you that their absence overshadows what will probably be the very last small BMW coupe with a manual transmission, then you can safely ignore the future G87 before we even see it without camouflage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kern417 View Post
Edit: Also, do you have any info on the cancelled models? I heard the Z4 and 8 series coupe future generations are already being cancelled among some others?
That is still just rumor, and even if those products will not return for a future generation, the current models will most likely stick around for at least a few years if not their originally planned, approximately seven year lifespan. As such, it will be years before the lack of preliminary information for future generations in the pipeline could start to be leveraged as a reliable way to call them dead for good.
Appreciate 2
kern4171844.50
pyrat1535.50

      08-06-2019, 02:28 PM   #2325
kern417
Cheapskate
United_States
1845
Rep
2,865
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 440i / 2010 X5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Those options were not left off of the F87 arbitrarily. They were not present because the F87 is based on the F22, and that product does not have those features available. Let's remember that the M Division is in charge of building Series products into performance machines. They don't add luxury and tech goodies. Those things need to be integrated into the DNA of the vehicle from the start, and it would be a waste of M Division's resources to get involved in all of those details. So, if you want more of that than the Series model provides, you will indeed have to step up to a higher tier on the BMW food chain once again.

All that is to say, if the G42 does not have HUD and surround view cameras (and I'm not saying it won't), and those things are high enough priority to you that their absence overshadows what will probably be the very last small BMW coupe with a manual transmission, then you can safely ignore the future G87 before we even see it without camouflage.
Trust me, I understand how it works. But offering basically 4 options on your top-tier model in that line was quite a buzzkill at the price point. It was basically a tuned M235i. At least now the M2C has a competent engine. But I'd hope that the G87 has something more to offer than relying on people getting it because it's the //M with the shortest wheel base.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long as 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Appreciate 1
mkoesel5173.00

      08-07-2019, 09:39 AM   #2326
JohnEnglish
Private First Class
88
Rep
162
Posts

 
Drives: Black
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Any hint of a M4 Gran Coupe?
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2019, 09:40 AM   #2327
F85MTuNED
Lieutenant
F85MTuNED's Avatar
254
Rep
427
Posts

 
Drives: ///Ⓜ️
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NY / NJ

iTrader: (0)

Sooooo DCT is officially dead?
__________________
IM POOR..
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2019, 09:42 AM   #2328
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
3986
Rep
2,659
Posts

 
Drives: M5/M240xi
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F85MTuNED View Post
Sooooo DCT is officially dead?
Looks like it, ouch it hurts big time

I will take MT
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2019, 09:43 AM   #2329
Ghostriderf80
Got Tools?? Use them.
Ghostriderf80's Avatar
United Kingdom
383
Rep
753
Posts

 
Drives: Just a BMW
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netz

iTrader: (1)

Any word or spy pics of the new grills... I cannot wait another year to find out.
__________________
1980 VW Rabbit 8v- 4spd - #1 First car - Thanks Dad.
1998.5 Audi A4 - very nicely built
2010 E90 325i M-Sport - M3/330i conversion, BBK/LSD FAST!
2014 M5 AKA Tomahawk Cruise Missile
2016 M3 Comp DCT - GTS flash, ESS, Akra DP, MPCO - Nirvana achieved
Appreciate 1
pyrat1535.50

      08-07-2019, 09:46 AM   #2330
alex2364
Lieutenant Colonel
alex2364's Avatar
United_States
901
Rep
1,519
Posts

 
Drives: 2017 M4 ZCP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern VA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2017 BMW M4  [0.00]
Any info on when G80 will be available at US dealers? I've seen estimates anywhere from mid 2020 to 2021.
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2019, 09:59 AM   #2331
Miko M
///M
Miko M's Avatar
United_States
3986
Rep
2,659
Posts

 
Drives: M5/M240xi
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Any word or spy pics of the new grills... I cannot wait another year to find out.
Lol, what a punishment
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
Any info on when G80 will be available at US dealers? I've seen estimates anywhere from mid 2020 to 2021.
The teasing started so early that we are all eager to finally have more Info and want one.
Unfortunately the punishment is way to long.
I am tired of it already
__________________
Life is too short...enjoy your life
///M
Appreciate 3
JTO242199.50
kern4171844.50

      08-07-2019, 10:12 AM   #2332
secretanchitman
Hero of Time
secretanchitman's Avatar
United_States
113
Rep
201
Posts

 
Drives: 2020 F82 M4 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
Lol, what a punishment


The teasing started so early that we are all eager to finally have more Info and want one.
Unfortunately the punishment is way to long.
I am tired of it already
Will it really be a year before we see official pictures of G80/G82??
__________________
2020 BMW M4 Coupe | San Marino Blue | Opal White Full | Piano Black | 6MT | 19” Wheels | Executive | Active Blind Spot Detection | Heated Steering Wheel | Moonroof | Power Rear Sunshade | Wireless Charging
Status: Scheduled for production (Week 40)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
future bmw, release date, upcoming bmw

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST