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      08-29-2015, 10:31 PM   #1057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
..or the Muslim God, or the Hindu Gods, or the Atheist God... What's the common denominator?
There is no atheist god and humans are gullible?

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.". - Dawkins

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quot...ichard_Dawkins
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      08-29-2015, 11:55 PM   #1058
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I always thought Dawkins was judgemental.
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      08-30-2015, 09:28 AM   #1059
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I always thought Dawkins was judgemental.
Well, he's more apt to call a spade a spade and the topic of religion being an emotional one may maker him appear judgmental. He also argues from the point of science.
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      08-30-2015, 09:39 AM   #1060
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Religion is obsolete.

Move on.

Next.
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      08-30-2015, 10:48 AM   #1061
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Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
Religion is obsolete.

Move on.

Next.
86% of the world's population would disagree with you. Just sayin.
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      08-30-2015, 10:57 AM   #1062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
There is no atheist god and humans are gullible?

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.". - Dawkins

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quot...ichard_Dawkins
No - the vast majority of people seek God. As far as I know, Dawkins never addresses that issue, nor the reason for it. And his "assessment" of God ignores the entire picture of the presence of the Judeo-Christian God - entirely.

PS - I wonder why Dawkins doesn't criticize Allah and Islam?

“In a recent Al-Jazeerah interview, Richard Dawkins was asked his views on God. He argued that the god of ‘the Old Testament’ is ‘hideous’ and ‘a monster’, and reiterated his claim from The God Delusion that the God of the Torah is the most unpleasant character ‘in fiction’. Asked if he thought the same of the God of the Koran, Dawkins ducked the question, saying: ‘Well, um, the God of the Koran I don't know so much about.’”
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      08-30-2015, 11:28 AM   #1063
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People seek religion as a crutch because don't want to be responsible for themselves. Been covered. Same way they can follow Hitler or anyone else who stands up and leads.
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      08-30-2015, 12:00 PM   #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
No - the vast majority of people seek God. As far as I know, Dawkins never addresses that issue, nor the reason for it. And his "assessment" of God ignores the entire picture of the presence of the Judeo-Christian God - entirely.

PS - I wonder why Dawkins doesn't criticize Allah and Islam?

“In a recent Al-Jazeerah interview, Richard Dawkins was asked his views on God. He argued that the god of ‘the Old Testament’ is ‘hideous’ and ‘a monster’, and reiterated his claim from The God Delusion that the God of the Torah is the most unpleasant character ‘in fiction’. Asked if he thought the same of the God of the Koran, Dawkins ducked the question, saying: ‘Well, um, the God of the Koran I don't know so much about.’”
Dawkins does address it actually. As for Islam, your presumption is incorrect as Dawkins does criticize Islam. You also have to realize that the Islamic God is positioned slightly differently.


http://www.google.com/search?q=richa...34.WRShL7_0vNk
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      08-30-2015, 03:11 PM   #1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Dawkins does address it actually. As for Islam, your presumption is incorrect as Dawkins does criticize Islam. You also have to realize that the Islamic God is positioned slightly differently.


http://www.google.com/search?q=richa...34.WRShL7_0vNk
I watched some of the links you provided. Dawkins doesn't begin to address Islam, beyond the 72 virgins thing, and agreeing with Islamists who denounce suicide bombings. He NEVER dives into it like he does the Judeo-Christian beliefs. He also doesn't identify Atheism as a religion (which it clearly is) - he simply answers the interviewers question with another question. Dawkins is simply a "greedy media slut" who is promoting his book to easily-led people, and lining his own pockets at the expense of a religious society that is willing to give his ideas a podium.
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      08-30-2015, 03:32 PM   #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I watched some of the links you provided. Dawkins doesn't begin to address Islam, beyond the 72 virgins thing, and agreeing with Islamists who denounce suicide bombings. He NEVER dives into it like he does the Judeo-Christian beliefs. He also doesn't identify Atheism as a religion (which it clearly is) - he simply answers the interviewers question with another question. Dawkins is simply a "greedy media slut" who is promoting his book to easily-led people, and lining his own pockets at the expense of a religious society that is willing to give his ideas a podium.
Now you've reduced your argument to personal grievances. Keep digging.

Atheism clearly isn't a religion.
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      08-30-2015, 08:52 PM   #1067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Now you've reduced your argument to personal grievances. Keep digging.

Atheism clearly isn't a religion.
I (and others) would disagree with you about Atheism being/not being a religion. It's also protected in the US by the Free Exercise Clause (which protects the free exercise of religion).

My argument is not personal grievances at all - it's fact. Watch the links you posted.
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      08-31-2015, 06:21 AM   #1068
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
...Please understand I don't mean to be disrespectful of your post.
I understand your point of view and no offense taken.
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      08-31-2015, 07:03 AM   #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I (and others) would disagree with you about Atheism being/not being a religion. It's also protected in the US by the Free Exercise Clause (which protects the free exercise of religion).

My argument is not personal grievances at all - it's fact. Watch the links you posted.
Fact that you essentially said Dawkins is a hack isn't personal? The biggest reason to misunderstand Dawkins is to forget that he argues entirely from the perspective of Science and the attempts of Religion to influence Science (i.e Creationism). Btw..Dawkins isn't an atheist as most people define it. He's open to scientific proof of existence and he's more open to an argument for Deism which as you know isn't the same as the Judeo-Christian / Islamic God.

Krauss and Neil deGrasse Tyson also argue from the position of science as well.

I have watched most of the links in their entirety.
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      08-31-2015, 09:51 AM   #1070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Agree that Communism and Facism are administered just like religions.

People in general have the desire and propensity to control and/or be controlled - it's not based in religion. Much good has also been done in the name of religion - no one can discount that. In fact, concepts like the Rule of Law and individual rights come from the Bible.
Mosaic Law comes from the Bible; however, it's hardly unique in its nature and not remotely first temporal appearance of a legal code in civilization from which was drawn the two principles you note.
  • Code of Ur-Nammu (2100-2050 B.C.)
  • Laws of Eshnunna (1930 B.C.)
  • Lipit-Ishtar Code (1860 B.C.)
  • Code of Hammurabi (~1760 B.C.) -- It is here that we find among the earliest examples of the rights of men, women, children and slaves.
  • Hittite Law (~1650 B.C.)
  • Mosaic Law -- cannot have existed prior to ~1450 B.C. because Moses didn't exist prior that then.
I'm of the mind that very little beyond religious institutions having been the main organs that preserved some of the knowledge of the Ancients, the vast majority of world events that occurred throughout history in the name of religion or God is far from good.

All the best.
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      08-31-2015, 04:10 PM   #1071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Agree that Communism and Facism are administered just like religions.

People in general have the desire and propensity to control and/or be controlled - it's not based in religion. Much good has also been done in the name of religion - no one can discount that. In fact, concepts like the Rule of Law and individual rights come from the Bible.
Mosaic Law comes from the Bible; however, it's hardly unique in its nature and not remotely first temporal appearance of a legal code in civilization from which was drawn the two principles you note.
  • Code of Ur-Nammu (2100-2050 B.C.)
  • Laws of Eshnunna (1930 B.C.)
  • Lipit-Ishtar Code (1860 B.C.)
  • Code of Hammurabi (~1760 B.C.) -- It is here that we find among the earliest examples of the rights of men, women, children and slaves.
  • Hittite Law (~1650 B.C.)
  • Mosaic Law -- cannot have existed prior to ~1450 B.C. because Moses didn't exist prior that then.
I'm of the mind that very little beyond religious institutions having been the main organs that preserved some of the knowledge of the Ancients, the vast majority of world events that occurred throughout history in the name of religion or God is far from good.

All the best.
So in all/any of these, no one was considered "above the law?"
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      09-03-2015, 02:51 PM   #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
86% of the world's population would disagree with you. Just sayin.
When did the argument " well everyone else is doing it" become a good idea?

Anyways. Religion is faith based. Atheism is fact based. The sad reality that atheism seeks out protection under religiously geared laws is a reflection on the structure of laws rather than what atheism actually is.
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      09-05-2015, 12:09 PM   #1073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Agree that Communism and Facism are administered just like religions.

People in general have the desire and propensity to control and/or be controlled - it's not based in religion. Much good has also been done in the name of religion - no one can discount that. In fact, concepts like the Rule of Law and individual rights come from the Bible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Mosaic Law comes from the Bible; however, it's hardly unique in its nature and not remotely first temporal appearance of a legal code in civilization from which was drawn the two principles you note.
  • Code of Ur-Nammu (2100-2050 B.C.)
  • Laws of Eshnunna (1930 B.C.)
  • Lipit-Ishtar Code (1860 B.C.)
  • Code of Hammurabi (~1760 B.C.) -- It is here that we find among the earliest examples of the rights of men, women, children and slaves.
  • Hittite Law (~1650 B.C.)
  • Mosaic Law -- cannot have existed prior to ~1450 B.C. because Moses didn't exist prior that then.
I'm of the mind that very little beyond religious institutions having been the main organs that preserved some of the knowledge of the Ancients, the vast majority of world events that occurred throughout history in the name of religion or God is far from good.

All the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
So in all/any of these, no one was considered "above the law?"
What does who may or may not have been above the law, or if anyone was, have to do with whether the concepts of "rule of law" and individual rights did or didn't come from the Bible?

You asserted that "Much good has also been done in the name of religion" and you cited "rules of law" and "individual rights" as being among them, and an example thereof, based on those two things having, so you claimed, originated from the Bible. I merely showed that those things didn't originate in the Bible, thereby implying you need a better/different example to support your assertion. Minimally, one that is at least accurate, although accurate and valid would be ideal.

All the best.
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      09-10-2015, 05:47 PM   #1074
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Not much can be trusted in the Bible as its a matter of faith rather than fact...

So if your views of God is formed from what has been written in the Bible,

I dare say you could be deluding yourself, with that said keep the faith!
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      09-23-2015, 06:26 PM   #1075
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7 science-related questions:

1) Does anything come from nothing?
2) Where did oxygen, nitrogen, carbon and all of the elements of the periodic table come from?
3) How did life begin?
4) Where are all of the interspecies ("missing links") that Darwin said would have to be found in order to validate his theories?
5) Where does Richard Dawkins say life on earth came from?
6) Why do so many people think that scientific facts contradict creationism?
7) Are you still looking for the truth concerning evolution vs creation or is your mind made up that there is no Creator and the universe and all it contains happened by random chance?



7 spiritually-related questions:

1) How many of you have ever read the Bible cover-to-cover?
2) If you had to choose between something that is hard to believe and something that is impossible to believe, which would you choose?
3) Do you understand the fundamental difference between God's relationship to man in the Old vs. the New Testament (and why those who slam today's Christians for not doing all of what the Old Testament says are ignorant of the facts)?
4) Did you know that the Bible states that every man is given a measure of faith? (What we do with it is our choice.) Romans 12:3
5) Why are those who believe that the Book of Revelation is a future end-times prophecy completely wrong and are contributing to the mockery being made of Christianity today?
6) Why do so many people think that scientific facts contradict Biblical creationism? (Yes...the same question for both categories.)
7) Are you still seeking the truth about God, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Vishnu, etc. or is your mind made up that there is nothing out there greater than man?
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      09-25-2015, 04:16 PM   #1076
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Not much can be trusted in the Bible as its a matter of faith rather than fact...

So if your views of God is formed from what has been written in the Bible,

I dare say you could be deluding yourself, with that said keep the faith!
Have you read the Bible? Its 40 different author's accounts of history.

You take a lot on by faith. Things can be known by faith, and they can be known by reason. There are some things that can only be known by faith and there are some things that can only be known by reason. That doesn't make faith wrong.

You can't know everything scientifically no matter how hard you try.
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      09-25-2015, 04:25 PM   #1077
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Jesus didn't write the Old Testament. It was written by various prophets describing the coming of a Messiah. The New Testament was written to describe the life and teachings of the Messiah. Christianity as a church was defined at the 7 ecumenical councils by the same people who put the Bible together. The people who wrote the New Testament, made Christianity legal, and created Christianity would find modern Christianity to be a gross heresy. 1700 years after these gentlemen created the church there are thousands of protestant denominations which seem to know little to nothing about Christianity and the catholics have been running amok as well. If you want to know about Christianity as defined by the people who wrote the Bible and created the church I suggest you read the Orthodox Church Fathers and Philokalia and find and Orthodox church to visit to see how Christianity was originally done.
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      09-25-2015, 04:36 PM   #1078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisty Fast Autobahn View Post
Jesus didn't write the Old Testament. It was written by various prophets describing the coming of a Messiah. The New Testament was written to describe the life and teachings of the Messiah. Christianity as a church was defined at the 7 ecumenical councils by the same people who put the Bible together. The people who wrote the New Testament, made Christianity legal, and created Christianity would find modern Christianity to be a gross heresy. 1700 years after these gentlemen created the church there are thousands of protestant denominations which seem to know little to nothing about Christianity and the catholics have been running amok as well. If you want to know about Christianity as defined by the people who wrote the Bible and created the church I suggest you read the Orthodox Church Fathers and Philokalia and find and Orthodox church to visit to see how Christianity was originally done.
Of course Jesus didn't write the Old Testament, but all scripture is God-breathed.

Christianity in churches today still hold to the teachings of the Old and New Testaments. If you want to see how Christianity is done, talk to one or go to church. I'll be glad to answer any questions.

Catholics are a bit different, but most protestant churches are similar, depending on location.
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