The Airplane Thread

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Yep -- the "Loach" (LOH = Light Observation Helicopter) of Vietnam etc. fame.

I flew on a Loach from our base camp, back to our little field base near the Cambodian border. It was a heck of a ride. The pilot rarely flew above 50 feet and was usually on the deck at about 20 feet, hopping over tree lines, etc. I'd guess we were doing about 100 knots.

Meanwhile, an Army Reserve Captain, sitting in the right front seat, had a M79 grenade launcher across his lap. As we passed a lone shack way out in the boonies, he brought up the M79 and put a round right through the doorway. We were so close to the shack that I thought the blast was going to damage our tail feathers. Completely nuts.

In all, I rode in the OH-6, UH-1 and CH47 choppers into some hairy places. Always worried about the jesus bolt.

[Llarry]

Lockheed built an airplane that was faster and flew higher than the famed SR-71A Blackbird: That airplane was the original single-seat A-12 version built for the CIA as Project Oxcart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_A-12

The A-12 paved the way for the SR-71; it first flew in 1962 but with J-75 engines as the J-58 engines were not yet ready for flight. The aircraft, like the SR-71 after it, was trucked to Groom Lake, Nevada, from the Lockheed plant, assembled and test-flown from there. Soon J-58 engines were fitted and the airplane could be flown to its limits.

Development was lengthy; all sorts of issues had to be resolved -- many related to the extreme temperatures encountered when flying faster than Mach 3. In the meantime, a facility was built at Kadena Air Base on Okinawa in Japan to house the aircraft and process the intelligence take from the flights.

A cadre of Air Force pilots were "sheep-dipped" to remove their affiliation with the Air Force and conducted training flights from Groom Lake. Finally, in 1967, all was ready and three A-12s flew to Okinawa non-stop with multiple aerial refuelings en route. While the original intent had been to overfly the Soviet Union, such missions were deemed too dangerous. It was the height of the Vietnam war and initial missions were flown over North Vietnam. In early 1968, North Korea attacked and captured a U.S. Navy intelligence collection ship, the USS Pueblo and a number of missions were flown over North Korea.

Earlier, the U.S. Air Force had become interested in the capabilities of the Lockheed aircraft and bought the aircraft in modified form as the SR-71, which had a second crewmember to operate systems and was a bit heavier and therefore did not have quite the speed or altitude capability of the CIA's A-12. After only a year of operational missions, USAF SR-71As arrived on Okinawa to replace the A-12s and they were retired. Only 15 had been built. But they had proven their value as pioneers of flight faster than Mach 3 and had effectively served as prototypes for the larger SR-71 fleet that followed.

The final attachment is the official CIA declassified history of the program in 66 pages.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Lockheed built an airplane that was faster and flew higher than the famed SR-71A Blackbird: That airplane was the original single-seat A-12 version built for the CIA as Project Oxcart.

If you go to the Seattle Museum of Flight, they have an A-12 as the centerpiece of their collection.

R.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

If you go to the Seattle Museum of Flight, they have an A-12 as the centerpiece of their collection.

I'm pretty sure that there is also still an A-12 on the nose of the USS Intrepid museum in NYC, that many visitors confuse with an SR-71.....

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I'm pretty sure that there is also still an A-12 on the nose of the USS Intrepid museum in NYC, that many visitors confuse with an SR-71.....

Yes. The Wikipedia lists all 15 A-12s and their fate: 6 lost in crashes and 9 on display, including the one on the Intrepid.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Lockheed built an airplane that was faster and flew higher than the famed SR-71A Blackbird: That airplane was the original single-seat A-12 version built for the CIA as Project Oxcart.

See the attached pages of a longer memo -- originally classified as Top Secret Oxcart -- comparing the two Lockheed aircraft.

Neither the A-12 nor the SR-71 was ever flown to its top speed. It's my recollection that the Air Force manual for the SR-71 stipulated that the aircraft was not to be flown at speeds exceeding Mach 3.2 unless there was an imminent threat to the aircraft, in which case Mach 3.3 was permitted for a short period of time. Heating of the aircraft was the reason for the speed limitations.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Yes. The Wikipedia lists all 15 A-12s and their fate: 6 lost in crashes and 9 on display, including the one on the Intrepid.

Still there as of April, 2023:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7644...er=1&entry=ttu


.

[Llarry]

If one counts the 707 and 720 as one type, the second Boeing commercial jet airliner was the three-engine 727, which was in production from 1962 to 1984. 1,832 were built.

The 727 is just about gone from the skies these days, with just a few here and there, but it had a good run.

With no wing-mounted engines, the 727 was suitable for gravel or other unimproved runways. It was, however, one of the noisiest airliners and this led to early retirements or the fitting of hush-kits to the engines.

The U.S. Air Force bought a small number of 727s and designated them as the C-22.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_727

[Llarry]

The smaller Boeing 737 first flew in 1967 and has practically become synonymous with the term " commercial airliner" (although Airbus would probably argue the point.)

While all the jet airliners saw improvements over their lives, the 737's history features the most dramatic changes over time. It remains in production today and as of last month, Boeing had built 11,480 airplanes with plenty more in the order books yet to come.

The 737 has seen several generations with multiple lengths and greatly improved propulsion over its long life. As the reliability of turbofan engines has improved over the decades, the 737 has assumed duties involving extended overwater flights, an area once reserved for aircraft with more engines for redundancy in case of engine failure. It can also be fitted with a gravel kit to permit takeoffs and landings on unimproved surfaces in areas like the Canadian north.

Air forces have also purchased 737s for several missions in fairly large numbers. The earliest military version for the U.S. Air Force was the T-43A, now retired, used to train student navigators. Other variants followed, including the P-8A Poseidon maritime reconnaissance aircraft (not pictured) and the E-7 airborne warning and control aircraft, soon to be purchased by the USAF. The Air Force and the Navy/Marine Corps have purchased 737s as C-40 transports; the latter's C-40A is a convertible passenger/freight model. The USAF's C-40s are mostly command post/VIP aircraft.

While Boeing will sell any model for use as a corporate or executive model, the 737 is by far the most popular option for this mission. While it does not have the speed or range of a Bombardier or Gulfstream executive jet, it does have a lot of room and can be outfitted opulently for the well-heeled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737

[Llarry]

Earlier this year Boeing delivered the last of 1,574 747s built from 1968-on. The 747 was the first twin-aisle widebody commercial airliner and was a sensation in the late 1960s.

As with all the Boeings, it was progressively improved over the 55 years it was in production. The initial B747-100 was replaced on the production line by newer models, with a big step being the B747-300, which had an extended upper deck for more seating. There were also a limited number of shortened 747SPs sold: these were the "hot rods" of the 747 family. (3rd photo)

The last 747 variant was the 747-800; by this time (2011), most models were sold in cargo form as newer, more fuel-efficient aircraft took over the passenger market.

Some of the most interesting -- and rare -- 747 versions are the VVIP aircraft, such as the American presidential transport VC-25A (and the uber-expensive future replacement VC-25B). Some of these are pretty exotic, though to the best of my knowledge none has a swimming pool.

There were also several 747s fitted with refueling booms; the U.S Air Force judged the 747 to be too large for that application, though the Iranians use the 747 as a tanker. (pictured)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747

[Llarry]

Since I'm discussing the Boeing 7X7 models in numerical order, I would refer you to page 73 of the airplane thread (post #1588) for the 757, which I've already covered.

[Llarry]

The Boeing 767 was the first twin-engine widebody airliner from Boeing and debuted in 1982. Initial 767-200s were followed by stretched -300s and then further stretched -400s. The 767 featured a supercritical wing and an all-glass cockpit that eliminated old-fashioned round instruments.

As production continued, freight versions were introduced. The replacement for the 767 has already made its entrance -- the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. While the 767 continues in production, most orders are for cargo versions or military aircraft.

The military aircraft include a few E-767 AWACS radar planes for Japan and a few KC-767 tanker/transports for Italy and Japan. The U.S. Air Force selected the 767 as a new tanker/transport aircraft and introduced the type in service in 2019, but the program to buy 179 examples has been plagued by difficulties: delays and problems with a new refueling boom that uses video in place of the previous direct viewing by a boom operator. As of the end of September 2022, 48 had been delivered. The Air Force does not intend to replace all existing older tankers with the KC-46A but plans to hold future competitions for further tanker purchases, including a stealthy tanker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_767

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_KC-46_Pegasus

[BMWGUYinCO]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Lockheed built an airplane that was faster and flew higher than the famed SR-71A Blackbird: That airplane was the original single-seat A-12 version built for the CIA as Project Oxcart.

Here are a few interesting facts about the A-12 and subsequent SR-71 Blackbird:

The plane was so ahead of its time, yet it was entirely developed using a slide rule - no computers.

In order to withstand the extreme temperatures of flight, it was determined that only one metal would work: titanium. Only problem? The world's biggest supply of titanium existed in Russia. SO, the CIA set up a dummy corporation in Europe and we BOUGHT the titanium from Russia - remember, the original mission of the spy plane was to fly over Russia.

Speaking of flying over Russia - why did we never fly over that country? Because of the shooting down of Gary Powers. After that incident, it was deemed way to risky and potentially embarrassing for the United States to ever have that happen again.

The jet used a system called the "ANS" that calibrated itself to within 300 feet of the centerline of its flight path by looking at 2 to 3 stars in the sky, and was incredibly accurate. No GPS back then.

The plane was never designed to contain offensive weapon capabilities...but it did have counter-measures to defeat enemy radar and missiles.

Shortly after taking off, the jet had to be refueled. Why? Well, we all know it leaked fuel on the tarmac (and then at speed it self-sealed due to the expanding metals) but that's not why...it was because it had to take off at a reduced fuel weight due to the maximum weight rating of the tires. Once airborne, it could take on a full fuel load.

Last one - yes - it could fly faster than a fired bullet from a hunting rifle.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Earlier this year Boeing delivered the last of 1,574 747s built from 1968-on. The 747 was the first twin-aisle widebody commercial airliner and was a sensation in the late 1960s.

As with all the Boeings, it was progressively improved over the 55 years it was in production. The initial B747-100 was replaced on the production line by newer models, with a big step being the B747-300, which had an extended upper deck for more seating. There were also a limited number of shortened 747SPs sold: these were the "hot rods" of the 747 family. (3rd photo)

The last 747 variant was the 747-800; by this time (2011), most models were sold in cargo form as newer, more fuel-efficient aircraft took over the passenger market.

Some of the most interesting -- and rare -- 747 versions are the VVIP aircraft, such as the American presidential transport VC-25A (and the uber-expensive future replacement VC-25B). Some of these are pretty exotic, though to the best of my knowledge none has a swimming pool.

There were also several 747s fitted with refueling booms; the U.S Air Force judged the 747 to be too large for that application, though the Iranians use the 747 as a tanker. (pictured)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747

My first time on a 747 was in 1972 when my wife and I went on our honeymoon to Hawaii. We were just married, on the biggest baddest airliner of all, with a Bloody Mary in hand, Lola by Kinks playing on the headset, headed to Hawaii; we thought we had the world by the tail: one of the best memories of my life.

I've flown on the 747 many times since. It's a bit sad that it's production has come to an end. My fond memories of that giant bird will stay with me.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

My first time on a 747 was in 1972 when my wife and I went on our honeymoon to Hawaii. We were just married, on the biggest baddest airliner of all, with a Bloody Mary in hand, Lola by Kinks playing on the headset, headed to Hawaii; we thought we had the world by the tail: one of the best memories of my life.

I've flown on the 747 many times since. It's a bit sad that it's production has come to an end. My fond memories of that giant bird will stay with me.

You were married 3 years before me. I have a 48 year anniversary coming up on the 26th of this month.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Esteban

You were married 3 years before me. I have a 48 year anniversary coming up on the 26th of this month.

Good for you! Congratulations to you and your wife.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Good for you! Congratulations to you and your wife.

And to you and your wife.

[Llarry]

A sampling of speed brakes on aircraft old and new...

The first speed brakes were probably the dive brakes used on dive bombers of the 1940s; these airplanes delivered their bombs in very steep (70 degrees or more) dives and needed to limit their speed for accuracy and so as to not overstress the airframe on pullout after dropping the bomb. A perfect example is the U.S. Navy SBD Dauntless; this was a particularly clever arrangement: The lower portion served as landing flaps and when both portions were open the whole served as dive brakes.

The AD (later A-1) Skyraider had a particularly large set of speed or dive brakes for the same reason; there were brakes on either side and on the underside of the airplane.

When jet aircraft arrived, speed brakes became even more important as speeds were greater and the aircraft were more aerodynamic. I've posted this photo before, but the FJ-4B Fury had four speed brakes to slow it down.

An aircraft with a particularly large speed brake was the Vought A-7 Corsair -- practically as big as a barn door!

The F-15 Eagle, the Su-27 Flanker and the F/A-18 Hornet all use a similar configuration: A single large speed brake on the spine of the aircraft; the former two's brakes rival the A-7 in size while the Hornet's brake is further back and smaller.

The Grumman A-6 Intruder, on the other hand, had speed brakes on the tips of the wings and the F-16 Viper has speed brakes on either side of the jet exhaust (Not pictured.)

The most modern U.S. combat aircraft do not have separate speed brakes but cleverly use other existing control services to reduce airspeed. In the case of the F-22 and F-35, applying "speed brakes" results in the ailerons moving up on both sides, the flaps moving down on both sides, and the rudders toeing-in. The Navy/RAAF F/A-18 Super Hornet uses much the same arrangement with the addition of small brakes/spoilers on the leading edge extensions and the rudders toe-out. (Only the Super Hornet is pictured)

One final example: The Republic A-10 Warthog close air support attack aircraft is often down low and making tight turns in combat and needs a robust braking ability. The A-10 uses speed brakes rather like the old SBD dive brakes or the A-6 wingtip speed brakes, but on steroids.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Llarry

A sampling of speed brakes on aircraft old and new...

I need something like that on the bike.

[Llarry]

The Boeing 777 is the world's largest twin jet and has replaced its stablemate the Boeing 747 as the premier Boeing offering in the large widebody commercial market.

The ever-improving reliability of turbofan engines made such an aircraft feasible. It was Boeing's first airliner with fly-by-wire controls, first flew in 1994 and entered service in 1995.

The original 777-200 version was supplemented by a stretched 777-300 aircraft; the 777-300 is longer than a Boeing 747-400 at 242 feet. Cargo variants were introduced in 2008.

As is typical, there was continuous improvement, largely stressing improved fuel economy. The 777 was originally offered with General Electric, Pratt & Whitney or Rolls-Royce engines. As you would expect from such a large aircraft with only two engines, the engines themselves are monsters. Early 777 engines were rated at 77,000 lbs of thrust and the latest (third-gen) engines are rated at 110-115,000 lbs. Later models use GE engines exclusively.

There are a few VVIP variants that have been produced for heads of state and the like. The last photo is of a 777 used by the Emperor of Japan and operated by the Japanese Air Self-Defense Force; a second similar aircraft is reserved for the use of the Prime Minister. There was some discussion of replacing the U.S. president's Boeing 747s with 777s but the Air Force was conservatively reluctant to choose an aircraft with ony two engines.

1,710 777s have been delivered as of last month and there is an order backlog of several hundred, making the Triple-7 one of the most profitable aircraft ever built by Boeing.

Economy seating is generally 10-wide or 9-wide (pictured) while business and first class seating on some airlines is absolutely opulent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

[Llarry]

The final Boeing airliner I will cover is the 787 Dreamliner. This is the latest offering from Boeing and is intended to replace the 767. A major innovation in this airplane is the one-piece composite barrel fuselage. The 787 had a troubled development and was delayed in introduction to commercial service; battery fires in lithium-ion batteries were one problem. It has, however, turned out to be another commercial success for Boeing, with 1,068 delivered by June of 2023.

The 787 first flew in 2009 and entered service in 2011. It is offered in three lengths: 186 feet, 206 feet and 224 feet and with GE or Rolls-Royce turbofan engines.

Passenger comfort features include a lower cabin altitude and larger windows placed higher to improve visibility.

To the best of my knowledge, no military has purchased the 787, but more than a dozen have been sold for executive or corporate use -- no doubt to extremely well-heeled buyers!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Llarry

A sampling of speed brakes on aircraft old and new...

The first speed brakes were probably the dive brakes used on dive bombers of the 1940s; these airplanes delivered their bombs in very steep (70 degrees or more) dives and needed to limit their speed for accuracy and so as to not overstress the airframe on pullout after dropping the bomb. A perfect example is the U.S. Navy SBD Dauntless; this was a particularly clever arrangement: The lower portion served as landing flaps and when both portions were open the whole served as dive brakes.

The AD (later A-1) Skyraider had a particularly large set of speed or dive brakes for the same reason; there were brakes on either side and on the underside of the airplane.

When jet aircraft arrived, speed brakes became even more important as speeds were greater and the aircraft were more aerodynamic. I've posted this photo before, but the FJ-4B Fury had four speed brakes to slow it down.

An aircraft with a particularly large speed brake was the Vought A-7 Corsair -- practically as big as a barn door!

The F-15 Eagle, the Su-27 Flanker and the F/A-18 Hornet all use a similar configuration: A single large speed brake on the spine of the aircraft; the former two's brakes rival the A-7 in size while the Hornet's brake is further back and smaller.

The Grumman A-6 Intruder, on the other hand, had speed brakes on the tips of the wings and the F-16 Viper has speed brakes on either side of the jet exhaust (Not pictured.)

The most modern U.S. combat aircraft do not have separate speed brakes but cleverly use other existing control services to reduce airspeed. In the case of the F-22 and F-35, applying "speed brakes" results in the ailerons moving up on both sides, the flaps moving down on both sides, and the rudders toeing-in. The Navy/RAAF F/A-18 Super Hornet uses much the same arrangement with the addition of small brakes/spoilers on the leading edge extensions and the rudders toe-out. (Only the Super Hornet is pictured)

One final example: The Republic A-10 Warthog close air support attack aircraft is often down low and making tight turns in combat and needs a robust braking ability. The A-10 uses speed brakes rather like the old SBD dive brakes or the A-6 wingtip speed brakes, but on steroids.

We used to slam in the BAe146 in close behind the a/c they were following, (using nonstandard phraseology) tell them to "split the tail" and would have our standard longitudinal separation before we lost vertical.