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      08-19-2022, 08:39 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS View Post
We went from "just plug it in every night and wake up to a 100% charge in the morning" to only needing charge "1-3 weeks" in a flash. The gaslighting (lying) by the EV crowd never ends.
I can't believe I have to type this... those situations above are not mutually exclusive.

If my spouse and I both have a iPhone 13 Pro Max, and I keep mine on my charger at my desk most of the time so the battery stays near/at 100%, but my spouse doesn't charge theirs for 2 days or until they get the 'low battery warning after 48 hours... am I lying or gaslighting you? Serious question.

You're welcome to the last word. Accusing people of lying is what gives BMW enthusiasts/places like this a bad rep.
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      08-19-2022, 09:59 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine Wait View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS View Post
There's plenty of vehicles that need more time than you predict to charge, but whatever. What gets me is people like yourself seem to overlook the very-real scenario where a household can have 4 drivers or more. How will everyone charge their car every night? What about a multi-family home that has even more drivers? The entire electric supply would have to be rebuilt to accommodate all the draw.
Every EV on the market can charge from 0-100% in <5 hours from a home Level 2 charger.

4 EVs in a household shouldn't be an issue, either. Today, each of those 4 people have a cell phone right. Imagine if your cell phone battery charge lasted 1-3 weeks at a time, but your entire family only had a couple phone chargers in the house. Surely your family could figure out how to make that work?
We went from "just plug it in every night and wake up to a 100% charge in the morning" to only needing charge "1-3 weeks" in a flash. The gaslighting (lying) by the EV crowd never ends.
All car manufacturers suggest charge 80-85 if you charge daily and charge to 100 ONLY when you plan for a long trip to extend battery life
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      08-19-2022, 10:09 AM   #135
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All car manufacturers suggest charge 80-85 if you charge daily and charge to 100 ONLY when you plan for a long trip to extend battery life
While generally true for nickel cobalt aluminum batteries, there are now EVs with LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries that have a full 100% charge recommendation for daily use.

Regardless, you can substitute the phrase "zero to recommended-full-charge level" for the "0-100%" example to catch all battery types.
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      08-19-2022, 12:21 PM   #136
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The volume of EV owners in the US doesn't jump from 2M to 100M in a couple of years. We have decades to get there, which will see the electric infrastructure augment capacity via wind, solar and deferred/repurposed resources from the 100M less fossil fuel vehicles on the road.

Your mindset of filling up your gas tank at 9pm vs. noon/lunch-break is not analogous to how you charge an EV. You plug it in when you're done driving for the day (even if that's 10pm at night). When you wake up every single day with 100% charge, you don't need to 'fill up on your lunch break'.
There are issues when everyone in the UK brews up a spot o' tea at the same time. Sure, it won't happen immediately, I'm just pointing out that we barely handle ourselves now when there's serious demand, and that's ever more evident due to excessive heat requiring longer run times of air conditioners. Vast sections of cities in the US have had power shutoff sporadically to help spread the load so things weren't overloaded. I don't think we should overlook this, but I'll agree we'll have some time before EVs are more common.

What I was really driving at with the 9pm vs noon thing was being able to charge when I want without regard to cost - this will be something new that I would have to monitor or schedule so that I'm charged less due to off-peak. You also assume working first shift - if someone worked the third shift it would mean their car charged during the day during more peak-use hours. There's also the factor of being ready to leave for any emergency/on-call/family or friend use case and not just having your car sit in the garage not charging because the cost of electricity is higher.

A bit off-topic so I'll leave it there, but we have more to figure out as EVs ramp up. Like it or not all, they're coming.
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      08-19-2022, 02:04 PM   #137
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Can they keep it from catching fire or turning off the AC inorder to divert energy to keeping the battery from eating itself.
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      08-19-2022, 11:46 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine Wait View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098 View Post
All car manufacturers suggest charge 80-85 if you charge daily and charge to 100 ONLY when you plan for a long trip to extend battery life
While generally true for nickel cobalt aluminum batteries, there are now EVs with LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries that have a full 100% charge recommendation for daily use.

Regardless, you can substitute the phrase "zero to recommended-full-charge level" for the "0-100%" example to catch all battery types.
I don't see any ev with LFP for you to purchase now. Please enlighten me
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      08-20-2022, 07:49 AM   #139
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I wish EVs did something for me. They just don't. I guess, end of the day, I'm a "motorhead" with motor narrowly defined as ICE. There's just something "missing" in every EV I've been in or driven. There's no denying the acceleration, it's mind melting. No denying the fuel savings, they can be big. Convenience, if you have a garage and can charge at home, also, again, difficult to deny.

But I just have no desire. My brother in law had a Taycan. I didn't even care to drive it. If it was any 911; I would have begged him for the keys and burned 1/2 a tank of fuel (if he was OK with it, of course) before I brought it back. The Taycan? I looked inside. I did a 0-60 pull. I pulled back into the driveway. I'd had enough. Not because it was bad, it was actually very good, but I just had no connection with the car.
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      08-20-2022, 10:16 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
I wish EVs did something for me. They just don't. I guess, end of the day, I'm a "motorhead" with motor narrowly defined as ICE. There's just something "missing" in every EV I've been in or driven. There's no denying the acceleration, it's mind melting. No denying the fuel savings, they can be big. Convenience, if you have a garage and can charge at home, also, again, difficult to deny.

But I just have no desire. My brother in law had a Taycan. I didn't even care to drive it. If it was any 911; I would have begged him for the keys and burned 1/2 a tank of fuel (if he was OK with it, of course) before I brought it back. The Taycan? I looked inside. I did a 0-60 pull. I pulled back into the driveway. I'd had enough. Not because it was bad, it was actually very good, but I just had no connection with the car.
Perhaps you you try out something like a 1000HP GT4e to convince yourself..

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      08-20-2022, 12:52 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098 View Post
I don't see any ev with LFP for you to purchase now. Please enlighten me
Tesla base model 3.
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      08-20-2022, 03:03 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine Wait View Post
While generally true for nickel cobalt aluminum batteries, there are now EVs with LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries that have a full 100% charge recommendation for daily use.
that's not true, charging LFP to 100% degrades it just like other batteries. LFP just degrades less. but if you charge to 80 it will degrade even less. not that it matters in practice as new cars have 8 year battery warranties so it becomes other people's problem.

the recommendation to charge to 100 started when Tesla failed to read battery % from their LFPs between 80-100%. the voltage difference ws so minute between 80-100% that the car wasn't able to give an accurate state of charge giving people inaccurate range.

so they recommended a weekly charge to 100% to calibrate the range meter.

true story.
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      08-20-2022, 03:19 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine Wait View Post
While generally true for nickel cobalt aluminum batteries, there are now EVs with LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries that have a full 100% charge recommendation for daily use.

Regardless, you can substitute the phrase "zero to recommended-full-charge level" for the "0-100%" example to catch all battery types.
the other point to make is battery longevity is more a lucky draw than how you charge.

people have charged Nickel battery to 100% every night, fast charge slow charge, after 160,000 miles their battery has degraded 10%

people have also babied their battery only slow charging to 80% and don't le it drop below 20%, and after 30,000 miles and 3 years battery has lost 16%

so it's pointless caring. do what you need to do and hope for the best.


*my real life example is my new samsung phone i did the 20-80 religiously, used the lowest 5W charger only, charge every 2 days wife had new iphone she keeps it plugged 24 hrs, she seems to be scared of using battery, it is always on charge at 100%.

after 2 years we compared. both phones down to 80% capacity. i was so mad at myself. samsung had a bigger battery too.
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      08-20-2022, 04:07 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098 View Post
I don't see any ev with LFP for you to purchase now. Please enlighten me
Many of the Teslas built in their Shanghai factory use LFP.
https://electrek.co/2022/04/22/tesla...cars-produced/
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      08-20-2022, 04:09 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by G80M4 View Post
that's not true, charging LFP to 100% degrades it just like other batteries. LFP just degrades less. but if you charge to 80 it will degrade even less. not that it matters in practice as new cars have 8 year battery warranties so it becomes other people's problem.

the recommendation to charge to 100 started when Tesla failed to read battery % from their LFPs between 80-100%. the voltage difference ws so minute between 80-100% that the car wasn't able to give an accurate state of charge giving people inaccurate range.

so they recommended a weekly charge to 100% to calibrate the range meter.

true story.
The owners manual for the Tesla Model 3 with LFP literally recommends you charge to 100% for daily use.

Quote:
If your vehicle is equipped with an LFP Battery, Tesla recommends that you keep your charge limit set to 100%, even for daily use...
Source

Last edited by Alpine Wait; 08-20-2022 at 05:05 PM..
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      08-20-2022, 04:10 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by GoldfishTX View Post
Tesla base model 3.
I'm pretty sure the TX-produced Model Y cars with 4680 cells are not LFP at this point.
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      08-20-2022, 04:41 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Alpine Wait View Post
I'm pretty sure the TX-produced Model Y cars with 4680 cells are not LFP at this point.
This is why I said model 3...
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      08-20-2022, 05:03 PM   #148
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This is why I said model 3...
Good point. I saw Model Y next to your username and brain crashed.
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      08-20-2022, 07:06 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine Wait View Post
The owners manual for the Tesla Model 3 with LFP literally recommends you charge to 100% for daily use.



Source
sure but does it say why
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      08-20-2022, 09:42 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Alpine Wait View Post
Good point. I saw Model Y next to your username and brain crashed.
How dare you make a mistake on the internet..
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      08-21-2022, 09:10 AM   #151
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Quote:
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Perhaps you you try out something like a 1000HP GT4e to convince yourself..

Looks like a perfect grocery getter!

I drove a high end Taycan. The power was absurd, the acceleration mind bending, and it handled and was finished well (a different light year compared to Tesla). It just didn't "do anything" for me.

I'm not arguing I'm right, in fact, I know I'm wrong and that in 20-30 years it may be impossible to even get a "performance" ICE vehicle. I just can't understand why I'm not "into it". I like cars that go fast. I love technology. I just can't get there, none of them that I've seen or driven has moved me in the way that many ICE vehicles have. Shoot, one of my vehicles is an F450; not exactly an "exciting" ride, but I love that thing. Crawl around under it regularly making sure it's healthy and well maintained. Looking for ways to make it better and more comfortable (we use it to tow a 5th wheel and gooseneck trailers). It's not the type of car that people "love", but, I'm a car nut, and I made my 450 "special" to me and better than it was when delivered (stock Ford suspension on these trucks leaves MUCH to be desired).

IDK, I'm puzzled by my non-interest. That said, if Ford ever pulls their head out of their behinds and releases a diesel electric F450, I'm buying one that day. There's no denying that electric motors pull like crazy and would make an excellent towing platform. But if it's a pure battery, no thank you; I have no use for that vehicle.
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      08-21-2022, 09:55 AM   #152
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Perhaps you you try out something like a 1000HP GT4e to convince yourself..

After watching that video I'm convinced that car should be crushed and all records of its existence destroyed. Someone arrest the person responsible for creating that absolutely horrific sound pollution.
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      08-22-2022, 01:30 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS View Post
After watching that video I'm convinced that car should be crushed and all records of its existence destroyed. Someone arrest the person responsible for creating that absolutely horrific sound pollution.
This following video clip really shows you where the electric track cars rank compared to some pretty potent ICE cars in a demanding timed course run...

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      08-22-2022, 02:38 PM   #154
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Probably retail well in excess of 100k GBP so out of the realms of most people!
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