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      03-20-2019, 11:46 AM   #23
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This is my first year of claiming no dependents and I was surprised at the amount of my refund. I expected to pay in.
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      03-20-2019, 11:46 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Let us not forget that the ultimate goal or point of taxes is to BREAK EVEN.

That means not owing anything and not getting anything back.
Correct. I am happy when it is either +/- $100

This year I got more back than I ever have. And had more per paycheck
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      03-20-2019, 11:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
doesnt fit the narrative so you must be incorrect
https://www.money-rates.com/research...s-by-state.htm

https://www.moneytips.com/is-your-st...-net-taker/356

As you can see, it's not that clear cut.

But it doesn't fit with your narrative. Those high-income tax states for the most part contribute more to the federal government than take.
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      03-20-2019, 12:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
https://www.money-rates.com/research...s-by-state.htm

https://www.moneytips.com/is-your-st...-net-taker/356

As you can see, it's not that clear cut.

But it doesn't fit with your narrative. Those high-income tax states for the most part contribute more to the federal government than take.
i dont think you understood.

in the past, you could deduct those high state taxes so your federal tax burden was less. Now youre limited on those deductions. It is not the federal governments fault that your state has high taxes, it is your states fault. If your state didnt charge such high taxes, you wouldnt be in this predicament. This is why you need to vote on what matters to you in your local elections. If you prefer to pay less in taxes, vote that way. If you prefer to pay more to provide more state run programs, vote that way.

Edit: as for your high income tax states contributing more, if you look at the wealth and population distribution in the US, it makes sense. Gotta look at all the numbers and come up with a conclusion.
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      03-20-2019, 12:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
in the past, you could deduct those high state taxes so your federal tax burden was less. Now youre limited on those deductions. It is not the federal governments fault that your state has high taxes, it is your states fault. If your state didnt charge such high taxes, you wouldnt be in this predicament. This is why you need to vote on what matters to you in your local elections. If you prefer to pay less in taxes, vote that way. If you prefer to pay more to provide more state run programs, vote that way.
I understand perfectly fine. It's rebuking the earlier comment how those "free loaders" in high income tax states "take" from other states who cover their tax burden because they weren't able to write off as much of their state taxes.

If you look at both of the articles I posted, first tax payers in those states already contribute more in federal taxes than the other states, and second, those states also contribute more in taxes than they get back.
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      03-20-2019, 12:17 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
Ugghhh.....middle class home owners with two kids went from getting about $4-5K in tax return every year to now owing money

Seems like middle class homeowners are getting killed by the new tax laws, especially in high tax states like CA


Love how they say " well you get less taxes taken out per paycheck "

I didn't see much if any increase in my paychecks....definitely not $5K worth


Feel like we got scammed which we did.
Who did your taxes?
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      03-20-2019, 12:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
That's really apples to oranges. The fact of the matter is that when you receive a deduction for SALT on federal tax expense, you effectively shift the overall tax burden from your state to those with little or no state taxes.
And yet they already contribute more in federal taxes and their states contribute more than those "other" states.

The deficit states and their taxpayers contribute more to the federal coffers than the other way around.
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      03-20-2019, 12:22 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
And yet they already contribute more in federal taxes and their states contribute more than those "other" states.

The deficit states and their taxpayers contribute more to the federal coffers than the other way around.
Again, there are reasons for that...

California
State & local government spending per capita: $11,528 (6th highest)

being inefficient at government spending doesnt mean you should get more taxes back. it means you suck at spending
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      03-20-2019, 12:29 PM   #31
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ended up losing over $20K in itemized deductions (i'm in one of those high property tax / expensive real estate states) but the new standard deductions actually helped me essentially break even. my overall federal bill was about $5K less than last year even though income was up slightly.

thanks to my accountant helping me plan ahead, i'm writing a <$500 check to the IRS...which is perfectly OK by me since my overall bill was less!
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      03-20-2019, 12:46 PM   #32
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My taxes on my 9-5 stayed exactly the same, but on my contracts I was taxed 29% this year vs ~24% last year. An extra 5% in taxes on work that I did IN ADDITION to my normal 40 hours sucks. So essentially I'm charging $40/hour for the work and getting less than $30/ hour when Uncle Sam gets me. I make more than that at my desk job at standard tax rate. Where is my incentive to work harder and be an entrepreneur?
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      03-20-2019, 12:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
You're still not getting it, and I don't feel that you are dumb - as a matter of fact I think you are quite intelligent - so either you're just not taking the time to fully understand how taxes work, or you are being deliberately obtuse about it to fit a narrative or prove a point.
Call it a different perspective.

Residents of California with high taxes are subsidizing states like Tennessee who have lower taxes. It's not too unlike our progressive tax system we have now.

I'm not saying that's wrong or needs to change so attempting to counter the narrative that those people who are getting hosed by the lower SALT deductions were the takers in this situation.

That's my opinion.
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      03-20-2019, 12:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Call it a different perspective.

Residents of California with high taxes are subsidizing states like Tennessee who have lower taxes. It's not too unlike our progressive tax system we have now.

I'm not saying that's wrong or needs to change so attempting to counter the narrative that those people who are getting hosed by the lower SALT deductions were the takers in this situation.

That's my opinion.
i dont think people were saying they were the "takers" in that they operate in a federal tax deficit, but the states were using the federal government to subsidize their already high state taxes in an effort to collect more taxes from their people, while attempting to keep their effective tax burden more in line with the rest of the country.

Since states like California or New York have both a higher percentage of the nations population, and a higher percentage of the wealth, and dont rely as much on federal programs, they give more than they take to the federal government overall, even if percentage wise, they pay in the same percentage amount of income.

Its no different than someone like myself, who receives little benefits from federal programs, but still pays X% in taxes, and someone who receives much more federal assistance and still pays their required % in taxes. I dont get my full money back in terms of assitance, and someone else gets more than they put in.

which brings us to how ironic it is when people complain about their state not getting their money back and putting in more than they take, and yet also advocate for higher taxes on the wealthy to fund more programs for the less fortunate.
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      03-20-2019, 01:10 PM   #35
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Find out Friday. As long as I don't have to pay more than $5k to feds, I feel fine. Will compare last year/this year when completed. Generally break even on CA FTB payments.

Youngest son will have to file his own since Trump got him a job, so we will probably lose that credit. Mortgage (primary) is winding down, so that credit will probably make Standard a much better option.

With my losing PT assistant, I have a bit more OT/On-call compensation, might bump things a bit.
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      03-20-2019, 01:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I'm in Canada, so yup.
Got lucky this year as I was able to crystallize losses in December which I will use against income...
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      03-20-2019, 01:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
LOL. Alright, man!
Hey, maybe Tennessee should raise their state taxes so they're not sucking from the federal teat as much.
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      03-20-2019, 01:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Well, first - if you are posting in this forum, it is unlikely that you are lower or middle class - just sayin'. I ended up paying quite a bit less this year than last year. It doesn't really matter how much you owe or get back, nor how much you 'feel' you paid. The only thing that matters is the math.

What was your ETR last year? What was your ETR this year? If it is higher this year, you paid a higher % of your income in tax. If it was lower, you paid less.

Here is my tax breakdown over the past several years. I ended up receiving less in a refund this year, but my overall tax burden was lower by more than 2%. That is a huge win for me.

Ditto. I paid much less this year. Between corporate and personal I paid about $30k less in taxes this year. Q1,2, and 4 saw more income than last year, but I took a few months off which made my total gross about the same. Corporate ETR was lower, but I don't remember by how much.

Living in socal, homeowner, 1 kid btw.
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      03-20-2019, 01:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Run Silent: What was your ETR last year? What was your ETR this year? If it is higher this year, you paid a higher % of your income in tax. If it was lower, you paid less.
Exactly. Refunds have nothing to do with much of anything except a reflection of tax planning or lack thereof.
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      03-20-2019, 01:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ****** View Post
Those who live in states with really high state income taxes, who counted on lowering their federal income tax by deducting those outrageous state taxes, which hoses the rest of us, may not do as well under the Trump tax plan as those living in more fiscally responsible states. Hint: your complaints should be directed to your states and your votes within those states should reflect your complaints.
Don't confuse fiscal aptitude for convenient circumstance. There are way too many factors to assume high taxes and state finances hinge solely on the ineptitude of a few people. Not only is it highly improbably that one of the biggest economies in the world like CA don't have any financially savvy people in it, but term after term of new government attempting to overcome the same hurtles only prove that it's not that simple. It's easy to point fingers from so far away.
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      03-20-2019, 01:50 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Don't confuse fiscal aptitude for convenient circumstance. There are way too many factors to assume high taxes and state finances hinge solely on the ineptitude of a few people. Not only is it highly improbably that one of the biggest economies in the world like CA don't have any financially savvy people in it, but term after term of new government attempting to overcome the same hurtles only prove that it's not that simple. It's easy to point fingers from so far away.
You’re putting quite a few words in my mouth that I didn’t say and making assumptions that twist what I did say. You might want to read a little more carefully.
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      03-20-2019, 01:53 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ****** View Post
Exactly. Refunds have nothing to do with much of anything except a reflection of tax planning or lack thereof.
Agreed, although 2018 was a strange year. My corporate was on point, owed a very small amount at year end. Personal was different though. I kept my personal payroll schedule the same as 2017 because I usually don't even touch that money anyway. Got a sizable return to my surprise. That's fine I guess, like I said, it usually just sits there all year anyway. I'll be sure to adjust this quarter and the rest of the year.
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      03-20-2019, 02:47 PM   #43
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Just found this article that help explains why some are getting hit harder than others.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/tax-...BqZ?li=BBnbfcN
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      03-20-2019, 02:58 PM   #44
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The elimination of the personal exemption really got me. Went from itemizing $17k in deductions (2017) to the standard $12k deduction (2018).

They eliminated the personal exemption, yet still have the W4 calculate how much taxes to take out every paycheck based on personal exemptions which is stupid. So I adjusted my W4 for this year to compensate and hopefully I wont owe $1500 next year.
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