California ??? The banning of all appliances

[Pheonix]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

Newsom has not stopped it but many local cities have stopped it in new construction.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/gas-...200000667.html

Wow, I did not realize up to 50 cities already ban gas appliances for new constructions.
The article also mentioned other cities, state like Boston, Washington State,etc...are looking at implementing same regulations

[M-technik-3]

That's my point so many other regions jump on the oh California is doing it so we should. Soon this will come down to if you remodel a home it will have to meet the new compliance standards. I am glad I renovated when I did but I am considering buying another place and I know I will be doing renovations.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

https://www.latimes.com/business/sto...eaters-by-2030

Ah, so they will ban the sale of new gas HEATERS in 2030, not all appliances like your thread title.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

That's my point so many other regions jump on the oh California is doing it so we should. Soon this will come down to if you remodel a home it will have to meet the new compliance standards. I am glad I renovated when I did but I am considering buying another place and I know I will be doing renovations.

I mean, I guess. But also thanks to those rules my heating/cooling costs are way lower than they would have been with equipment that did not meet modern standards.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by Pheonix

Yes, we are still allowed to have BBQ with Charcoal or propane!
We do have what they called Spare the Air Day and they ban all wood burning such as firepits, fireplaces, etc. Barbecues are permitted on a Spare the Air Day, but are discouraged and the use of lower-pollution gas fuels rather than wood or charcoal is recommended.
It costs $20 to exchange a 20lb propane tank here (maybe slightly cheaper if refill).

The horror! The horror! How do you ever survive?!?!?!

[ryan stewart]

So right now my current house has a gas furnace and gas cooking. My water heater is some sort of heat pump style thing that is electric and insanely efficient. Although since i dont have a family I kind of want to go on-demand when I have to replace this one. I think it would use less but mainly I want the space in my garage for a little work cubby.

I had gas mainly because I had alum/nonstick calphalon pans but I have since converted to all clad and now just waiting for the stove top to have an issue so I have an excuse to convert to induction. Have one of the portable cooktops and its freaking magic.

[Mingwan]

So theyre banning EV's?

[infinitekidM2C]

Everyone should keep in mind that most of these eco friendly laws are not enforced. I mean there's no BBQ police anymore than there's a water lawn task force. Shit in some places they barely have enough officers to arrest the murderers...

[iminhell1]

So I should be investing more in Coal is what I'm hearing.

[KevinC]

Gavin has all the answers, don't worry.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Gavin has all the answers, don't worry.

You know that's not a bad idea
Since a lot of the Tesla drivers in my neighborhood are a bit ......rotund

[F32Fleet]

Peeps should keep in mind that the geography and climate of California are the driver for many of these regulations.

Calif will fix their generation issues.


On the bright side solar has essentially become standard on new homes in Calf and heat pumps are able to reach cost parity with gas furnace.

New construction uses less power today vs older homes but ya it's going to get expensive for those living in 50 yr old homes with little to no insulation in the walls and ceiling.

[zx10guy]

My vacation home was built according to Energy Star guidelines. I was involved in the entire construction phase and saw how the builder was having their workers and subs do their work. All gaps in the sheathing, holes drilled into studs/header plates/etc, outlet/switch boxes were all spray foamed. The house came with low E windows as standard. The HVAC and hot water heater are pretty high efficiency. And the final checkout was the home had to pass a blower door test. If it didn't pass, the builder had to find the source of the leak. The final approval of the test was given to me as part of my closing packet.

Yes, it's amazing how the homes are constructed these days...although the question about if they're built to last is another. The builder for my vacation home is the same as the builder for my primary home. So I can compare the two in terms of the evolution of how the builder has evolved in putting up homes.

On the topic of solar, it's a bit more complicated. Solar panels are still not all the efficient. The current ones are what? Maybe 25% or so efficient from converting the light energy into electricity. And that degrades over time. So as the panels age, the less energy output they'll have. I don't know if the inverters used in solar systems have gotten more reliable or have had their typical service life extended, but when I looked into solar a few years ago, was told to expect to replace the inverter in a few years to the tune of about $3k. Plus you have to work with local building codes. My county had just implemented a code revision requiring a setback from the edge of the roof to where one can install a solar panel. This limited the number panels the solar company I was talking to could implement on my home. And there's the issue of if there is a fire. One of the homes in my development had a roof fire with solar panels on it. Not sure if the fire was caused by something else or originated from the solar panels. But there was some pretty noxious smoke coming from the burning panels.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Peeps should keep in mind that the geography and climate of California are the driver for many of these regulations.

Calif will fix their generation issues.


On the bright side solar has essentially become standard on new homes in Calf and heat pumps are able to reach cost parity with gas furnace.

New construction uses less power today vs older homes but ya it's going to get expensive for those living in 50 yr old homes with little to no insulation in the walls and ceiling.

How?

How? The sun doesn't shine at night and wind usually dies down then also. Eliminate fossil fuels like Newscum and the greenies want and this state (or any other for that matter) will be ushered back into the stone age.

Because of that, electric companies are paying less for power sent back to them and charging more for power used when one's solar isn't being generated.

[ryan stewart]

Lol, idiot.

[KevinC]

https://michaelshellenberger.substac...the-apocalypse

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

On the topic of solar, it's a bit more complicated. Solar panels are still not all the efficient. The current ones are what? Maybe 25% or so efficient from converting the light energy into electricity. And that degrades over time. So as the panels age, the less energy output they'll have. I don't know if the inverters used in solar systems have gotten more reliable or have had their typical service life extended, but when I looked into solar a few years ago, was told to expect to replace the inverter in a few years to the tune of about $3k.

All resi solar inverters come with a 10 year or 25 year warranty(for micros) even a central style pv resi 1ph inverter is 1400 bucks brand new with a 10 year warranty and they all do not fail on year 10 and a day. Many last 15+. Source I sold resi inverters.

It would take an electrician 2 hours to swap a resi inverter tops. Even at 100 an hour 1600 to have another 10+ years under warranty or just get micros with a standard 25 yesr warranty from enphase.

Not to mention the average resi solar system payback is roughly 7 years if your state has decent incentives. Making money daily after that. System costs 20k paid off after 7 years. Free money after that. The modules will last 50+ years. They all have 25 year warranties with guaranteed degradation curves down to 80%. So in 25 years the modules produces 80% of it original power rating.

You install solar when your are 30 and the system will last your life basically. Look at the cost of energy in your town 30 years ago to today or look at the projected cost of energy over the next 20-30 years. The KwH you produce later in the systems life are worth so damn much.


Edit: This California ban is just stupid. Unless Cali starts building nuke plants wtf are they thinking being so eletric energy dependent?!?!

[HappynHealthy]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

My state seems to adopt what ever California does and thinks it's great. This is why it concerns me.

Its due to happen near me in Wash, DC it really is crazy


https://www.ncelenviro.org/articles/washington-d-c-passes-ban-on-most-natural-gas-use-in-new-buildings/

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

How?

How? The sun doesn't shine at night and wind usually dies down then also. Eliminate fossil fuels like Newscum and the greenies want and this state (or any other for that matter) will be ushered back into the stone age.

Because of that, electric companies are paying less for power sent back to them and charging more for power used when one's solar isn't being generated.

How is irrelevant. It will happen. Either storage will get better or they'll have to increase generation vis gas or nuclear or both. California will eventually reach a breaking point which will force the state to act.

Btw. Gas ranges are ridiculously inefficient because most of the energy is wasted heating the surrounding air. Gas furnaces and gas ovens can't function without electricity anyways.
California utilities have a horrible track record when it comes to leaks within the gas distribution system.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Edit: This California ban is just stupid. Unless Cali starts building nuke plants wtf are they thinking being so eletric energy dependent?!?!

The utilities have a poor track record with regards to gas leaks within the distribution system. It's why some cities have banned all gas fixtures.l

Sounds like California is trying to reduce methane leaks.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

The utilities have a poor track record with regards to gas leaks within the distribution system. It's why some cities have banned all gas fixtures.l

Sounds like California is trying to reduce methane leaks.

In the case of PG&E, they have a horrible track record of maintaining their electrical lines. So much so they've been directly blamed for fires resulting in deaths of people. But that hasn't stopped this electrical push.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

In the case of PG&E, they have a horrible track record of maintaining their electrical lines. So much so they've been directly blamed for fires resulting in deaths of people. But that hasn't stopped this electrical push.

You know how to solve that, right?