C5 Z06 or ND2 Miata RF?

[XutvJet]

So I'm at the point of buying a fun car. My budget is up to $35k. I'm torn between a 2003/2004 Z06 or an ND2 Miata RF Club or a GT with the GT-S package. Both are stellar bangs for the buck. The Z06 is more raw and is becoming more of a collectors type car. I see their values increasing as more and more people realize just how damn good the car is. The Z06 would be as fast as my M235 which I'm also keeping. The Miata on the other hand is more balanced and something that you can have a blast with at slower speeds. I've considered getting back into autox and I'd love to get my 17 y/o son involved in it. The Z06 is a good autox car too but much harder to place and something that can overpower the tires if you're not good with the throttle.

With the Z06, I'd replace the seats, steering wheel, head unit, shifter, lower it on the stock bolts, tires, and do some mild exterior comestic mods. The RF would be wheels, tires, springs, sway bars, and some minor mild exterior comestic mods.

I'm certain both cars would be a blast to drive. I know that Miatas are generally the answer as I spend a lot of time helping work on my two buddies FM turbo NB Miatas.

The Z06 and Miata are easy to work on and are reliable. The main issue with the Z06 is that GM has discontinued many parts and it's getting worse. As a guy that grew up in late 1980s and 1990s car culture, the C5 Z06 does capture a bit more of my heart, but sourcing parts does leave a sour taste in my mouth. The Z06 has more classic value and street presence. The Miata is the smarter choice and something that would be easier and cheaper to autox.

Thoughts from those with experience with either car? I have no intentions doing track days or competitive driving with either car so I'm not worried about cooling or brake upgrades.

[RM7]

It's really interesting to me, because these two cars do really well at AutoX. The Corvette you can just leave in 1st gear most of the time and not have a worry in the world. Somehow it still kills it with the longer wheelbase and bigger wheels (18s). The Miata on the other hand always does amazing. Of the cars I compete against at AutoX, these are generally some of the most competitive with a decent driver and don't seem to require crazy skills to make up for other deficits.

IME, with the LT1 powering my car, it's not that you overpower the tires (but my tires are 305s), it's more that you have the power to well exceed your other limiting factors, like cornering Gs, braking ability, line changes, etc. It's not like you are spinning out just trying to go in a straight line, the corvettes tend to have decent rubber to prevent that, but it's a bigger car and the power allows you to easily accelerate to speeds that the other parts can't handle. Still, its fun to get on the throttle.

[kyriian]

One of the things I'd really look closely is the local autox venues. Bigger venue the Z06 will be more advantageous, power is power
Smaller venue will benefit the MX-5, nature of the smaller lighter car.

Between them they are so different, yet so similar, so i'd point out what was issues to me in both may help your decision?

The Z06 is a tricky beast, but the combination of the good diff, big tires, longer wheelbase, makes it less terrifying than it sounds. Driven two of them before I settled on my Z4M. It does lack modern refinement. It may not be a problem for you but I find that early 2000s American interior disgusting and cannot stand being in it despite the fun and enjoyable driving dynamics. Of course, it will be a future classic and if you are already planning resale, you will more than likely make money with the car.

The ND is tiny, it felt smaller than both my old NB and NC on the inside and I am not big. I do fit fine, but I know friends who have had issues fitting in it comfortably and it maybe a problem for you as well, so I'd really try to sit in one to see if both you and your son will fit properly. But there is no better car new today to appreciate proper car control and weight transfer, like RM7 said, it does not require crazy skills to drive fast, its not so much that it is easy, but far less terrifying to push 100% without as much fear of it biting back, while offering all the modern trappings that the C5 Z06 will never have. Let's not also forget, you can open the top and just enjoy a million miles of blue skies.

[Alfisti]

I'd definitely sit in both to get a feel for them, also need to understand if AX is the main priority or if back road hustling is also a consideration. I do suspect the CHevy will lead down an endless path of mods to try and correct the suspension etc.

Any reason a 2015-17 PP2 Mustang is off the table?

[mikado463]

2002 ZO6 owner here so you know where my feelings lie. Even with the craziness today in car pricing I know of no other car at the price point of a C5 ZO6 today that would compete with it. Your budget of 35k would not only buy you a fine example but would cover the cost of the upgrades you wish to do as well.

[mikado463]

couple more things to be aware of ........

C5 ZO6's (like all C5's) have had steering column lock issues, be sure to check that the fix/recall has been done.

You mentioned 03/04 model years, there was a known valve spring issue in later 02 and early 03 builds. If the replacement work hasn't been done, govern yourself accordingly.

[OkieSnuffBox]

I'd go Miata for easy trouble-free use, warranty, etc. Still plenty of stuff if you'd like to go more aggressive with the suspension/wheel/tire setup, or do an exhaust.

Tune options are a bit slim for some reason.

If you wanted to save up front and go with the ND1 RF, there is Edelbrock S/C kit and BBR turbo kit as well.

[chassis]

C5 Z06 was the first use of an aluminum space frame on the Vette, introduced in 2005 or 2006.

That’s either a good thing (exclusive, light weight) or a bad thing (aluminum fatigue life).

[LuvMyE92]

I had a C5 Z06 and it was a stupendous car. I'm surprised to read about the parts supply issues. I guess I've been spoiled by BMW.

A couple of friends of mine who track their Z06s have had the steering racks rebuilt, and apparently it's very expensive and only a few places can do it.

The MeeOtter is a fabulous little car, not for me (too low, too uncomfortable, too low powered) but they've kicked my butt many times on the track. Just a supremely tossable little car with excellent balance, steering and decent brakes. If I was still into AutoX and wanted to get a car, especially one to share with a teenager, that would be it.

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by chassis

C5 Z06 was the first use of an aluminum space frame on the Vette, introduced in 2005 or 2006.

That’s either a good thing (exclusive, light weight) or a bad thing (aluminum fatigue life).

uh......no that would have been a C6, the C5 ZO6 ended in '04

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I had a C5 Z06 and it was a stupendous car. I'm surprised to read about the parts supply issues. I guess I've been spoiled by BMW.

For the most part it's not that big of an issue, except for the ECBM on the early model years ('97-99).

[Equilibrandt]

When comparing the two, be careful falling into the power difference. If you want more power out of your Miata, it HAS to be an ND1.

ND1: > 2018, 2.0L making 155 hp, can be BBR Turbo (and a few others) or Edelbrock SC up to ~225 hp.
ND2: < 2019, 2.0L making 181 hp, currently has NO forced induction options as the ECU was just recently cracked and there are some big fueling issues preventing FI that haven't been resolved yet.

Over on the Miata forums, Fab9 has started recently making progress toward FI ND2. BBR has said the same.

I've never driven a C5 but I own a 2020 ND2. Incredibly fun in the twisties and at AutoX. Would love to have it at around 240 hp with FI when it releases.

If you just can't wait for ND2 FI solutions, the C5 is going to feel a lot better. But keep in mind that most people argue that more power in cars allows less skilled driving because you can simply use the power to smooth your mistakes. Sit in a Club and a GT Miata. I'm 6'3 and I don't pass the broomstick test. I'd bet the ND1/2 would do fine in AutoX. There are some great cooling upgrades that most recommend asap (from Flyin' Miata or Good-Win Racing) that you might consider adding to your ND Miata upgrade list along with the wheels and suspension.

[Bc2005]

I drove a Miata on the Lime Rock skid pad as part of a training session and was amazed how much fun it was to drive and how much control I had. My last two BMWs have been 3 series with automatic transmission, and the Miata with manual was a blast to drive. It’s moderate power is part of what makes it a little more challenging to get the most out of the car, and for a 17 year old coming up it seems like it would be a great choice. The extra power of the Z06 could make him lazy about learning new skills because the power overcomes (or complicated) skill issues.

[5.M0NSTER]

Did you say the Z would be just as fast as your 235? I would expect the Z to be much quicker, particularly in the higher rev/speed range.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by mikado463

uh......no that would have been a C6, the C5 ZO6 ended in '04

Oops, Ok. I was wrong in the nomenclature, but I stood in the factory and was interviewed in industry magazines for the space frame launch.

XutvJet is considering a steel framed vehicle. No concern about aluminum fatigue life, but heavier than the C6 Z06 with aluminum space frame.

[swanson]

Z06 for me. I've wanted a C5 Z06 since it first came out. The first vette I ever drove was a 2003 Z06 in black. I was shocked how easy it was to drive around town. Awesome car. I will definitely be adding one in the near future.

[nick3753]

If you're serious about your son doing it with you and he's showing significant interest, then I'd say go for the Miata. Probably a much easier car to learn on, cheaper consumables and I assume, safer as well.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by mikado463

uh......no that would have been a C6, the C5 ZO6 ended in '04

Uh, no, I believe that @chassis is correct, kinda. The C5 Z06 was the first production Corvette to use an aluminum frame. Beginning with the C6, all Corvettes got an aluminum frame. I think perhaps the phrasing was confusing, as the C5 Z06 came out in 2001 I believe, and the C6 came out as a 2005 model year. Or maybe in 2005 as a 2006.

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Uh, no, I believe that @chassis is correct, kinda. The C5 Z06 was the first production Corvette to use an aluminum frame. Beginning with the C6, all Corvettes got an aluminum frame. I think perhaps the phrasing was confusing, as the C5 Z06 came out in 2001 I believe, and the C6 came out as a 2005 model year. Or maybe in 2005 as a 2006.

Again.........NO !

the C5 ZO6 IS NOT an aluminum framed car and again NO not all C6 went with an aluminum frame, ZO6 yes as was the ZR1. Now as far as lightweight components only on the ZO6 during the C5 run that would have been the Titanium exhaust

FWIW I own a 2002 ZO6 and previously owned a C6 GS.

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by chassis

Oops, Ok. I was wrong in the nomenclature, but I stood in the factory and was interviewed in industry magazines for the space frame launch.

XutvJet is considering a steel framed vehicle. No concern about aluminum fatigue life, but heavier than the C6 Z06 with aluminum space frame.

No problem, but to add and as further clarification, starting in 2006 with the ZO6, while the frame was aluminum the supports for the fixed roof panels as well as the engine cradle assembly were actually a magnesium alloy.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by mikado463

Again.........NO !

the C5 ZO6 IS NOT an aluminum framed car and again NO not all C6 went with an aluminum frame, ZO6 yes as was the ZR1. Now as far as lightweight components only on the ZO6 during the C5 run that would have been the Titanium exhaust

FWIW I own a 2002 ZO6 and previously owned a C6 GS.

OK then, I will grant you that point (I really did think the Z06 was aluminum) however I feel compelled to mention that there were a lot of additional weight savings done on that car beyond the exhaust.

You know, just so that I can salvage a little bit of self-respect out of this thread.

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

OK then, I will grant you that point (I really did think the Z06 was aluminum) however I feel compelled to mention that there were a lot of additional weight savings done on that car beyond the exhaust.

You know, just so that I can salvage a little bit of self-respect out of this thread.

LOL, no harm , no foul !!

for sure on the light weight beyond the exhaust as I can attest to. For starters, the glass was specific to ZO6's (thinner/lighter), rear interiors were void of insulation and doors/covers for the rear cubbies, sway bars were hollow(changed to aluminum in '02) and list goes on ......