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      07-12-2019, 01:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Given how quick the Supra already is with the B58 it would be a giant killer with another 100 hp from the S58. I would love to see it as I love great cars not brands.
This is true , but its not the best thing to buy an M4 for 120K euro full spec and then somebody comes with same power and engine on a toyota , with half the price . Its maybe toyota , but it delivers same power and sound ..
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      07-12-2019, 01:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
Yes , when you think of the E30 M3 usually tou think about that red E30 M3 as well... the only think that turns me down is that is not a proper M engine but a hybrid , which is not bad , i think e30 M3 , E36 M3 , E46 M3 used as well blocks from BMW , and M modified the whole engine , but they got S code in front , in the M2 and 1M they couldnt do S code since there was already S54 and S55 ..
lol people will say the same thing when the next M engine becomes a real hybrid with a 48volt electric assist to meet the next set of euro emission standards.

anyways...i would just buy the car you like and drive it...and not look at it as a investment. investment wise you'd probably make more money investing $60k-80k into index funds over 20yrs then a car.
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      07-12-2019, 02:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Given how quick the Supra already is with the B58 it would be a giant killer with another 100 hp from the S58. I would love to see it as I'm a fan of great cars not brands.
yeah i saw the carwow vids...looks like toyota sneaked in a tune while BMW wasnt looking lol.
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      07-12-2019, 02:05 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
Yes , when you think of the E30 M3 usually tou think about that red E30 M3 as well... the only think that turns me down is that is not a proper M engine but a hybrid , which is not bad , i think e30 M3 , E36 M3 , E46 M3 used as well blocks from BMW , and M modified the whole engine , but they got S code in front , in the M2 and 1M they couldnt do S code since there was already S54 and S55 ..
lol people will say the same thing when the next M engine becomes a real hybrid with a 48volt electric assist to meet the next set of euro emission standards.

anyways...i would just buy the car you like and drive it...and not look at it as a investment. investment wise you'd probably make more money investing $60k-80k into index funds over 20yrs then a car.
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
Yes , when you think of the E30 M3 usually tou think about that red E30 M3 as well... the only think that turns me down is that is not a proper M engine but a hybrid , which is not bad , i think e30 M3 , E36 M3 , E46 M3 used as well blocks from BMW , and M modified the whole engine , but they got S code in front , in the M2 and 1M they couldnt do S code since there was already S54 and S55 ..
lol people will say the same thing when the next M engine becomes a real hybrid with a 48volt electric assist to meet the next set of euro emission standards.

anyways...i would just buy the car you like and drive it...and not look at it as a investment. investment wise you'd probably make more money investing $60k-80k into index funds over 20yrs then a car.

Of course not considering the car as investment , just have to decide before the M2CS comes . Hybrid will come until 2025 for sure , and as they told , by 2030 all M cars will be full electric ! Maybe M will be call iM as well since X series are called iX3 for example , since then i think all current M cars will appreciate since real sound will be rare . I think im sticking to my OG M2 , i like simplicity , raw and old school . Had the opportunity to buy an M4 as well but prefer all the way the M2 . Anyways , Thanks M for their production range , nowadays cars like M2/3/4 are rare , especially M2 , doesnt even have a real rival .
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      07-12-2019, 02:12 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
How does "possible, but unlikely"...turn into Supra is getting the S58?

Hypothetically if it does get the S58, it will be years away. It won't get it until the G80 M3 has arrived and then the G82 M4. BMW would never allow it until those two vehicles have a foot hold in the market. 3-4 years minimum. I'd wager the S58 G87 M2 will be for sale before a S58 powered Supra. As far as a Z4M model goes, good luck with that when the Z4 M40i starts at $65k. They priced themselves out of that market.
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How does "possible, but unlikely"...turn into Supra is getting the S58?

Hypothetically if it does get the S58, it will be years away. It won't get it until the G80 M3 has arrived and then the G82 M4. BMW would never allow it until those two vehicles have a foot hold in the market. 3-4 years minimum. I'd wager the S58 G87 M2 will be for sale before a S58 powered Supra. As far as a Z4M model goes, good luck with that when the Z4 M40i starts at $65k. They priced themselves out of that market.
We dont talking about the when , it doesnt matter if its before G87 , G80 or G84 , ofc it will not get it before them , even if it gets a detuned version , again its a S58 , ofc this if it happens it won't happen before 2023 , dont forget this is the first year of Supra , after 4-5 years ? Do you think it will remain with the same engine ? Or do you think they will discontinue it?
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      07-12-2019, 02:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
Of course not considering the car as investment , just have to decide before the M2CS comes . Hybrid will come until 2025 for sure , and as they told , by 2030 all M cars will be full electric ! Maybe M will be call iM as well since X series are called iX3 for example , since then i think all current M cars will appreciate since real sound will be rare . I think im sticking to my OG M2 , i like simplicity , raw and old school . Had the opportunity to buy an M4 as well but prefer all the way the M2 . Anyways , Thanks M for their production range , nowadays cars like M2/3/4 are rare , especially M2 , doesnt even have a real rival .
i agree...i believe this generation M2 will be BMWs last analogish M car. The newer one will be probably less raw in my opinion and full of more tech.
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      07-12-2019, 02:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
We dont talking about the when , it doesnt matter if its before G87 , G80 or G84 , ofc it will not get it before them , even if it gets a detuned version , again its a S58 , ofc this if it happens it won't happen before 2023 , dont forget this is the first year of Supra , after 4-5 years ? Do you think it will remain with the same engine ? Or do you think they will discontinue it?
The last production year for the last gen Supra was 2002, so closer to 20 years. Hence the big anticipation for the current Supra.

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Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
i agree...i believe this generation M2 will be BMWs last analogish M car. The newer one will be probably less raw in my opinion and full of more tech.
In my opinion the last analog BMW was the 1M. The M2 is only here because of the 1M.
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      07-12-2019, 02:27 PM   #30
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Is that fact or just speculation?
I believe BMW is going through with it considering they already did this to the M5

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-amp-M4-Thread
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      07-12-2019, 02:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
We dont talking about the when , it doesnt matter if its before G87 , G80 or G84 , ofc it will not get it before them , even if it gets a detuned version , again its a S58 , ofc this if it happens it won't happen before 2023 , dont forget this is the first year of Supra , after 4-5 years ? Do you think it will remain with the same engine ? Or do you think they will discontinue it?
The last production year for the last gen Supra was 2002, so closer to 20 years. Hence the big anticipation for the current Supra.

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Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
i agree...i believe this generation M2 will be BMWs last analogish M car. The newer one will be probably less raw in my opinion and full of more tech.
In my opinion the last analog BMW was the 1M. The M2 is only here because of the 1M.
lol , this M2 is not here for the 1M , if it was like this , the 1M was there because of the E46 M3 or E30 M3 or 2002 turbo .. the M2 continues the same compact sport coupe since the 2002 . Its a must in a production line , since the m3/4 is getting bigger and more like a gt car . As well i dont believe the next supra will be here in 20 years . First of all its not a supra but anyway .. we re in 2020 and the real thing is marketing . Thats why the OG M2 is one of the last analoque and raw cars . M2C and CS etc of course is better but not that simple and raw . And not that analoque , i prefer for example the suspension not to be like the M2C or M3/4 . More raw , simple , as it used to be .
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      07-12-2019, 02:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Picoschu View Post
The last production year for the last gen Supra was 2002, so closer to 20 years. Hence the big anticipation for the current Supra.



In my opinion the last analog BMW was the 1M. The M2 is only here because of the 1M.
i think the 1m is a great car...i just think its ugly..thats its only problem to me. The M2 has much better proportions..hence why i drive one over a 1m.
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      07-12-2019, 02:47 PM   #33
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lol , this M2 is not here for the 1M , if it was like this , the 1M was there because of the E46 M3 or E30 M3 or 2002 turbo .. the M2 continues the same compact sport coupe since the 2002 . Its a must in a production line , since the m3/4 is getting bigger and more like a gt car . As well i dont believe the next supra will be here in 20 years . First of all its not a supra but anyway .. we re in 2020 and the real thing is marketing . Thats why the OG M2 is one of the last analoque and raw cars . M2C and CS etc of course is better but not that simple and raw . And not that analoque , i prefer for example the suspension not to be like the M2C or M3/4 . More raw , simple , as it used to be .
Maybe you misunderstood me. The current Supra (ToyoBMW) is the first Supra since 2002, it's been almost 20 years since Toyota made another Supra. That's a fact.

As for the M2, I believe BMW was encouraged to create an M2 because of the great appeal for the 1M. In a sense, the M2 is the little brother of the 1M, except the M2 is less raw because it has electric steering and artificial engine noises coming through the speakers lol

I wouldn't even classify the 1M with the E30/E46 or 2002 because it was a very limited production vehicle and only produced for 1 year. Also, it shared many suspension and brake parts from the E90 M3 and the motor was from the Z4. The E30/E46 M3 was never produced in that same manner. Sure there was a CSL version that was limited production, but from my understanding it didn't share parts off of other M models.
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      07-12-2019, 02:53 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
lol , this M2 is not here for the 1M , if it was like this , the 1M was there because of the E46 M3 or E30 M3 or 2002 turbo .. the M2 continues the same compact sport coupe since the 2002 . Its a must in a production line , since the m3/4 is getting bigger and more like a gt car . As well i dont believe the next supra will be here in 20 years . First of all its not a supra but anyway .. we re in 2020 and the real thing is marketing . Thats why the OG M2 is one of the last analoque and raw cars . M2C and CS etc of course is better but not that simple and raw . And not that analoque , i prefer for example the suspension not to be like the M2C or M3/4 . More raw , simple , as it used to be .
Maybe you misunderstood me. The current Supra (ToyoBMW) is the first Supra since 2002, it's been almost 20 years since Toyota made another Supra. That's a fact.

As for the M2, I believe BMW was encouraged to create an M2 because of the great appeal for the 1M. In a sense, the M2 is the little brother of the 1M, except the M2 is less raw because it has electric steering and artificial engine noises coming through the speakers lol

I wouldn't even classify the 1M with the E30/E46 or 2002 because it was a very limited production vehicle and only produced for 1 year. Also, it shared many suspension and brake parts from the E90 M3 and the motor was from the Z4. The E30/E46 M3 was never produced in that same manner. Sure there was a CSL version that was limited production, but from my understanding it didn't share parts off of other M models.
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Originally Posted by Picoschu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
lol , this M2 is not here for the 1M , if it was like this , the 1M was there because of the E46 M3 or E30 M3 or 2002 turbo .. the M2 continues the same compact sport coupe since the 2002 . Its a must in a production line , since the m3/4 is getting bigger and more like a gt car . As well i dont believe the next supra will be here in 20 years . First of all its not a supra but anyway .. we re in 2020 and the real thing is marketing . Thats why the OG M2 is one of the last analoque and raw cars . M2C and CS etc of course is better but not that simple and raw . And not that analoque , i prefer for example the suspension not to be like the M2C or M3/4 . More raw , simple , as it used to be .
Maybe you misunderstood me. The current Supra (ToyoBMW) is the first Supra since 2002, it's been almost 20 years since Toyota made another Supra. That's a fact.

As for the M2, I believe BMW was encouraged to create an M2 because of the great appeal for the 1M. In a sense, the M2 is the little brother of the 1M, except the M2 is less raw because it has electric steering and artificial engine noises coming through the speakers lol

I wouldn't even classify the 1M with the E30/E46 or 2002 because it was a very limited production vehicle and only produced for 1 year. Also, it shared many suspension and brake parts from the E90 M3 and the motor was from the Z4. The E30/E46 M3 was never produced in that same manner. Sure there was a CSL version that was limited production, but from my understanding it didn't share parts off of other M models.
I dont think toyota will make another 20 years now where they found bmw to help them , as for the m2 sure less raw for the steering but everything else is there , this is just some progress about the steering . As for fake sounds , sure you can remove them , and the n55 sound especially with MPE sounds absolutely awesome ! The e30/36/46 M3's they also used BMW blocks and not M blocks, M heavy modified them , not just engine but as well everything else , chassis etc.. i looked up about e30 m3 , e36 and e46 m3s and found the blocks were from bmw again... same happened to the 1M and M2 ..
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      07-12-2019, 02:53 PM   #35
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i think the 1m is a great car...i just think its ugly..thats its only problem to me. The M2 has much better proportions..hence why i drive one over a 1m.
I agree 100% with you, the M2 looks way better than the 1M.

I've driven my best friend's 1M plenty of times and I love it. If I could afford it I would own both vehicles.
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      07-12-2019, 02:56 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
This is true , but its not the best thing to buy an M4 for 120K euro full spec and then somebody comes with same power and engine on a toyota , with half the price . Its maybe toyota , but it delivers same power and sound ..
I don't think a Supra with an S58 is going to be half price as the engine upgrade will likely be accompanied by other additions such as larger brakes, suspension changes, etc which will bump the price of the car accordingly. Would be similar to the current M2C and M4 price gap. The M4 will still offer higher tech, nicer interior, AWD, rear seats, etc. I'm skeptical that an S58 powered Supra is coming any time soon so I don't think there's a lot to worry about. People have to remember BMW isn't making these cars for Toyota out of kindness as they get a piece of the pie as well so it's in their best interests to see that this venture is fruitful for both parties.
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      07-12-2019, 02:59 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
This is true , but its not the best thing to buy an M4 for 120K euro full spec and then somebody comes with same power and engine on a toyota , with half the price . Its maybe toyota , but it delivers same power and sound ..
I don't think a Supra with an S58 is going to be half price as the engine upgrade will likely be accompanied by other additions such as larger brakes, suspension changes, etc which will bump the price of the car accordingly. Would be similar to the current M2C and M4 price gap. The M4 will still offer higher tech, nicer interior, AWD, rear seats, etc. I'm skeptical that an S58 powered Supra is coming any time soon so I don't think there's a lot to worry about.
Sure it wont happen anytime soon . As the M boss told , never say never . Maybe not now , but the case is open in near future .
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      07-12-2019, 03:05 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
lol , this M2 is not here for the 1M , if it was like this , the 1M was there because of the E46 M3 or E30 M3 or 2002 turbo .. the M2 continues the same compact sport coupe since the 2002 . Its a must in a production line , since the m3/4 is getting bigger and more like a gt car . As well i dont believe the next supra will be here in 20 years . First of all its not a supra but anyway .. we re in 2020 and the real thing is marketing . Thats why the OG M2 is one of the last analoque and raw cars . M2C and CS etc of course is better but not that simple and raw . And not that analoque , i prefer for example the suspension not to be like the M2C or M3/4 . More raw , simple , as it used to be .
Maybe you misunderstood me. The current Supra (ToyoBMW) is the first Supra since 2002, it's been almost 20 years since Toyota made another Supra. That's a fact.

As for the M2, I believe BMW was encouraged to create an M2 because of the great appeal for the 1M. In a sense, the M2 is the little brother of the 1M, except the M2 is less raw because it has electric steering and artificial engine noises coming through the speakers lol

I wouldn't even classify the 1M with the E30/E46 or 2002 because it was a very limited production vehicle and only produced for 1 year. Also, it shared many suspension and brake parts from the E90 M3 and the motor was from the Z4. The E30/E46 M3 was never produced in that same manner. Sure there was a CSL version that was limited production, but from my understanding it didn't share parts off of other M models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picoschu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
lol , this M2 is not here for the 1M , if it was like this , the 1M was there because of the E46 M3 or E30 M3 or 2002 turbo .. the M2 continues the same compact sport coupe since the 2002 . Its a must in a production line , since the m3/4 is getting bigger and more like a gt car . As well i dont believe the next supra will be here in 20 years . First of all its not a supra but anyway .. we re in 2020 and the real thing is marketing . Thats why the OG M2 is one of the last analoque and raw cars . M2C and CS etc of course is better but not that simple and raw . And not that analoque , i prefer for example the suspension not to be like the M2C or M3/4 . More raw , simple , as it used to be .
Maybe you misunderstood me. The current Supra (ToyoBMW) is the first Supra since 2002, it's been almost 20 years since Toyota made another Supra. That's a fact.

As for the M2, I believe BMW was encouraged to create an M2 because of the great appeal for the 1M. In a sense, the M2 is the little brother of the 1M, except the M2 is less raw because it has electric steering and artificial engine noises coming through the speakers lol

I wouldn't even classify the 1M with the E30/E46 or 2002 because it was a very limited production vehicle and only produced for 1 year. Also, it shared many suspension and brake parts from the E90 M3 and the motor was from the Z4. The E30/E46 M3 was never produced in that same manner. Sure there was a CSL version that was limited production, but from my understanding it didn't share parts off of other M models.
Same thing happened to e36 m3 and e46 m3 and most probably on other models . The different with M2 , the S code was already in use by the S55 of the M3/4 .
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      07-12-2019, 03:09 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
I dont think toyota will make another 20 years now where they found bmw to help them , as for the m2 sure less raw for the steering but everything else is there , this is just some progress about the steering . As for fake sounds , sure you can remove them , and the n55 sound especially with MPE sounds absolutely awesome ! The e30/36/46 M3's they also used BMW blocks and not M blocks, M heavy modified them , not just engine but as well everything else , chassis etc.. i looked up about e30 m3 , e36 and e46 m3s and found the blocks were from bmw again... same happened to the 1M and M2 ..
If Toyota decides to not produce another Supra, then maybe this latest Supra will become a collector, or hold its value better, compared to an OG M2 or M2 Comp?

I don't think the OG M2 nor M2C will become collectors because they're not a very limited production vehicle. There's a whole thread discussing this at the moment. But so far everyone loves their OG/LCI M2s because of the sound of the N55 vs S55, which I agree with you on that part. N55 sounds a whole lot better than the S55.
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      07-12-2019, 03:48 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
I dont think toyota will make another 20 years now where they found bmw to help them , as for the m2 sure less raw for the steering but everything else is there , this is just some progress about the steering . As for fake sounds , sure you can remove them , and the n55 sound especially with MPE sounds absolutely awesome ! The e30/36/46 M3's they also used BMW blocks and not M blocks, M heavy modified them , not just engine but as well everything else , chassis etc.. i looked up about e30 m3 , e36 and e46 m3s and found the blocks were from bmw again... same happened to the 1M and M2 ..
If Toyota decides to not produce another Supra, then maybe this latest Supra will become a collector, or hold its value better, compared to an OG M2 or M2 Comp?

I don't think the OG M2 nor M2C will become collectors because they're not a very limited production vehicle. There's a whole thread discussing this at the moment. But so far everyone loves their OG/LCI M2s because of the sound of the N55 vs S55, which I agree with you on that part. N55 sounds a whole lot better than the S55.
Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
I dont think toyota will make another 20 years now where they found bmw to help them , as for the m2 sure less raw for the steering but everything else is there , this is just some progress about the steering . As for fake sounds , sure you can remove them , and the n55 sound especially with MPE sounds absolutely awesome ! The e30/36/46 M3's they also used BMW blocks and not M blocks, M heavy modified them , not just engine but as well everything else , chassis etc.. i looked up about e30 m3 , e36 and e46 m3s and found the blocks were from bmw again... same happened to the 1M and M2 ..
If Toyota decides to not produce another Supra, then maybe this latest Supra will become a collector, or hold its value better, compared to an OG M2 or M2 Comp?

I don't think the OG M2 nor M2C will become collectors because they're not a very limited production vehicle. There's a whole thread discussing this at the moment. But so far everyone loves their OG/LCI M2s because of the sound of the N55 vs S55, which I agree with you on that part. N55 sounds a whole lot better than the S55.
If the current line up was 20 years before lets say and the f87 m2 and f80 m3 where that old , i would believe that . 2025 all M cars will be hybrid & from 2030 all M cars will be full electric . So , my personal opinion on collectors vehicles , is that all M cars will be special , since electricity is coming . Then who knows , M might be called iM , just like the X , its already been called as iX3 ...I just find the M2's N55 , a special engine since 235 is just a normal N55 , and the M2 N55 is a bit of a hybrid , some call it the single version of the S55 . As for everything else except engine are from the bigger brothers (M DCT , Suspension etc ) . For me the part that M took N55 , and installed many parts from M3/4 is enought . The S55 is a high performance version of who? The 235 N55 , not the M2's N55 ! Since M2 Engine has all the upgraded coolings as well and more other high performance parts used in other M cars so that guarantee the driver that it can manage the hard use . Of course S55 is more refined , more grown engine , can be modified more as well , sound for me sure the N55 sounds better but i dont have any problem with S55 engine (sounds like e92 335i twin turbo btw)
But bmw just did it the "easy" way , and just added a detuned version of M3/4 engine . Thats why maybe the OG M2 engine in my opinion is more special engine on this specific model . Dont forget , either they had to stop the F87 or just put another engine . I dont say this because i own one , i just want to decide if i keep my M2 , or upgrade it with the CS model . Just find the OG more special in some ways . If i had the chance back then i would pick more raw and old school cars .
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      07-12-2019, 07:01 PM   #41
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yeah i saw the carwow vids...looks like toyota sneaked in a tune while BMW wasnt looking lol.
That was a Euro-spec Z4, which is hobbled a bit. The US-spec Z4 has about 50 more HP (whereas the US-spec Supra is the same tune/HP as the Euro-spec Supra). I would expect the US-spec Z4 to have an edge over the US-spec Supra. At least until the US-Supra eventually gets that same engine (rumored for next year).
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      07-12-2019, 10:34 PM   #42
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The last production year for the last gen Supra was 2002, so closer to 20 years. Hence the big anticipation for the current Supra.



In my opinion the last analog BMW was the 1M. The M2 is only here because of the 1M.
i think the 1m is a great car...i just think its ugly..thats its only problem to me. The M2 has much better proportions..hence why i drive one over a 1m.
The 1M's only flaw was the headlights (...which grew on me over time). It has a better looking rear end than the ///M2 and arguably a better front bumper. The ///M2 has better headlights and side profile. The M2C takes it a step further with the S55, better brakes, F8X seats, etc.
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      07-13-2019, 09:43 AM   #43
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We dont talking about the when , it doesnt matter if its before G87 , G80 or G84 , ofc it will not get it before them , even if it gets a detuned version , again its a S58 , ofc this if it happens it won't happen before 2023 , dont forget this is the first year of Supra , after 4-5 years ? Do you think it will remain with the same engine ? Or do you think they will discontinue it?
The last production year for the last gen Supra was 2002, so closer to 20 years. Hence the big anticipation for the current Supra.

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i agree...i believe this generation M2 will be BMWs last analogish M car. The newer one will be probably less raw in my opinion and full of more tech.
In my opinion the last analog BMW was the 1M. The M2 is only here because of the 1M.
lol , this M2 is not here for the 1M , if it was like this , the 1M was there because of the E46 M3 or E30 M3 or 2002 turbo .. the M2 continues the same compact sport coupe since the 2002 . Its a must in a production line , since the m3/4 is getting bigger and more like a gt car . As well i dont believe the next supra will be here in 20 years . First of all its not a supra but anyway .. we re in 2020 and the real thing is marketing . Thats why the OG M2 is one of the last analoque and raw cars . M2C and CS etc of course is better but not that simple and raw . And not that analoque , i prefer for example the suspension not to be like the M2C or M3/4 . More raw , simple , as it used to be .
The m2c is the same car as the m2 but with a different engine that has a second turbo and adequate cooling. It's not any more or less analogue or raw.

The m2cs I guess has the adaptive suspension, if you can fault it for that?
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      07-13-2019, 12:05 PM   #44
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The S58 in a Toyota Supra is all at the rumor stage right now. Not happening anytime soon.
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