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      10-21-2021, 11:05 PM   #1
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What exactly is a "prop firearm"?

I have read a few different stories about someone having been killed and one critically injured when a "prop" firearm was discharged on a movie set today. I can't find a definition of what a prop firearm actually is. I think I've heard stories in the past about people dying of the same reason.

Apparently Alec Baldwin was the one that discharged this firearm but there are few details available.
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      10-21-2021, 11:18 PM   #2
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Anything used in a movie - is a prop. A prop firearm is a firearm on a movie set that is used in a scene. Firearms on sets are to be checked by at least two people prior to issuing them to an actor or extra. There have been a few accidents where live firearms were introduced onto the set and discharged. One of the most known, and the reason for stricter rules on sets, was when Brandon Lee was killed on set in 1993. Now very few "blanks" are used and almost all gun reports and flashes are added in post-production.
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      10-22-2021, 12:06 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
Anything used in a movie - is a prop. A prop firearm is a firearm on a movie set that is used in a scene. Firearms on sets are to be checked by at least two people prior to issuing them to an actor or extra. There have been a few accidents where live firearms were introduced onto the set and discharged. One of the most known, and the reason for stricter rules on sets, was when Brandon Lee was killed on set in 1993. Now very few "blanks" are used and almost all gun reports and flashes are added in post-production.
Yep, I remember that about Brandon Lee. It happened not long after The Crow came out IIRC.

As for the prop firearm, somehow I was under the impression they didn't use live rounds.
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      10-22-2021, 12:19 AM   #4
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There isn’t supposed to be any on set. The prop-master/ firearm wrangler is supposed to make sure. People are injured or worse from discharge from blanks as well.
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      10-22-2021, 02:34 AM   #5
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With todays CGI and CO2/air systems theres absolutely no reason to use any primer fired round, whether its a blank or live.

I also have a hard time understanding how blanks get mistaken for live rounds. There is a clear physical difference between them. So it's either pure negligence or it's intentional.
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      10-22-2021, 05:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///d View Post
I also have a hard time understanding how blanks get mistaken for live rounds.
Don't know the details of the Baldwin accident. But it brings back memories of Lee's tragic death, and blanks weren't mistaken for live rounds in that accident.
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Hollowed-out cartridges are often used to film close-ups of a gun being loaded; the “dummy” cartridges are then supposed to be removed and replaced with blanks before being fired. The police investigation into Lee’s death concluded that a tip of one of the cartridge’s bullets broke off from the cartridge and lodged in the gun, then fired at Lee along with the blank.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...don-lees-death

and LA Times compiled article snips about Lee's death

https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...th-brandon-lee
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      10-22-2021, 06:41 AM   #7
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I've been on set and used real firearms before - we did not shoot them - but used them to aim at the perpetrator - also used real cop cars and real cops. The gun handler showed us the guns were not loaded of course before giving them to us.
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
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      10-22-2021, 06:41 AM   #8
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These incidents go back farther than Brandon Lee, in 1984 Jon Erik Huxum shot himself in the head with a prop gun a .44 magnum loaded with blanks. He was joking around and put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. Blanks still have a danger factor to them.

https://ew.com/article/1994/10/14/jo...ms-fatal-joke/

I believe real firearms are still used on sets with blank ammunition. I also think before too much speculation goes on we wait for the investigation to be completed by the police. There is no doubt that given the high profile nature that details will be released.

Last edited by Murf993; 10-22-2021 at 06:58 AM..
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      10-22-2021, 06:53 AM   #9
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Apparently its the same as a real firearm
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      10-22-2021, 07:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-G View Post
Apparently its the same as a real firearm
Exactly. Its not a fake firearm, but what makes it a "prop" is using cartridges (ammunition) with out a projectile. The blank still uses a brass casing but it crimped at top instead of having a lead/copper jacketed projectile. It still produces the "bang" and does expel gasses.

Picture for reference between a Blank round and Live round. The 2nd and 4th are the blanks.
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      10-22-2021, 07:36 AM   #11
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We recently came into possession of an ancient athletic event starter pistol. I did not have a chance to examine it to see if the barrel's bore was actually serviceable by design before it went to an FFL . There was a handful of .22 short blanks in the box with it.....
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      10-22-2021, 07:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintsopoulos View Post
Picture for reference between a Blank round and Live round. The 2nd and 4th are the blanks.
I could see the seam failing on #2 right where the projectile mates with the cartridge, launching the crimped part as if it was a projectile...if the bore was serviceable.....
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      10-22-2021, 07:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vreihen16 View Post
I could see the seam failing on #2 right where the projectile mates with the cartridge, launching the crimped part as if it was a projectile...if the bore was serviceable.....
The blank rounds are a single piece of stamped brass, so the crimping opens up to expel the gas/pressure. But if there is anything in the chamber like debris it would certainly send it flying.
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      10-22-2021, 06:54 PM   #14
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The local talking heads on TV here reported that there was some sort of labor union job action taking place, and they were using non-union labor in the props department.

I'm still left wondering if this ammunition loading was intentional by one of the union members to make the "scabs" look bad, or if it was because the non-union labor didn't know how to do their jobs?????
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      10-22-2021, 07:15 PM   #15
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I’m not a fan of Alex Baldwin but WTF? I can’t imagine. How sad and traumatizing for all involved.
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      10-22-2021, 08:19 PM   #16
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I'm struggling to understand how live rounds can be on set for any movie, not just this one.
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      10-22-2021, 08:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vreihen16 View Post
The local talking heads on TV here reported that there was some sort of labor union job action taking place, and they were using non-union labor in the props department.

I'm still left wondering if this ammunition loading was intentional by one of the union members to make the "scabs" look bad, or if it was because the non-union labor didn't know how to do their jobs?????
That's what I'm thinking too. I read that several people quit right before that scene and literally walked off the set. That's suspicious AF.
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      10-22-2021, 08:34 PM   #18
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I know guys that do western re-enactments, gunfights. They aim low or away from others in the show.

My guess someone in the crew screwed up and left a real round in the gun.
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      10-22-2021, 09:05 PM   #19
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Dunno why they would have ANY live rounds on a set at all and I also don't know why they even need blanks with the digital effects we have. They always end up adding crazy muzzle flashes to everything in post anyways.
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      10-22-2021, 11:01 PM   #20
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crazy that it still happens when you can just CGI and add sound effects. someone is getting sued big time.
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      10-23-2021, 12:39 AM   #21
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Having no real information on what happened it's hard to say, however I'm am curious to know how this not only killed somebody but wounded another. It's possible shrapnel from a blank could wound or kill somebody but the chances of it killing one person and wounding another seem very low in my mind, regardless of the type of blank. If this was an actual round then I would place the blame on everyone involved, if you cannot tell the difference between a blank and a legitimate round with a projectile then you have no business handling firearms, much less pointing one at another person. These are the same people who preach about "common sense gun control" or outright banning firearms all together. If someone was filming a low budget film or a YouTube video this conversation would be very different because regardless of the circumstances, someone was killed by a firearm and they would responsible.
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      10-23-2021, 12:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselOG View Post
Having no real information on what happened it's hard to say, however I'm am curious to know how this not only killed somebody but wounded another. It's possible shrapnel from a blank could wound or kill somebody but the chances of it killing one person and wounding another seem very low in my mind, regardless of the type of blank. If this was an actual round then I would place the blame on everyone involved, if you cannot tell the difference between a blank and a legitimate round with a projectile then you have no business handling firearms, much less pointing one at another person. These are the same people who preach about "common sense gun control" or outright banning firearms all together. If someone was filming a low budget film or a YouTube video this conversation would be very different because regardless of the circumstances, someone was killed by a firearm and they would responsible.
Agreed, one blank injuring someone is a fluke, but two or more blanks injuring multiple people is suspicious.

With the reports of tension with the crews I feel like this is going to become a revenge thing and someone intentionally swapped out rounds. I doubt actors do a check before hand, they likely just pick it up from a table where everything is supposed to be ready to go.

Also, I see you and your name, your avatar subtitle, your back the blue flag, your vehicle description, AND your location...
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