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      01-14-2023, 07:55 PM   #7371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinaz View Post
Crime is rising because police are fearful of doing their job. Case in point the arrest above where force was used. Funny how often people who don't resist have zero force employed against them. Also sad how often people who die after arrest have narcotics in their blood streams.

Crime is also rising because people aren't allowed to defend their property for fear of lawsuit. Such as stores can not use force to prevent pilfering or decide to refuse access to people based on visual cues such as high on drugs or homelessness and lack of money.

Until we recognize that sometimes police work IS a bit violent as a response to physical resistance and that just because someone has a video of it doesn't mean it was wrong we will descend into more chaos.

Please do not misinterpret. If police clearly use force against someone that is not resisting or use excessive force they need to be stopped and that is a problem as well. But the public who have never wrestled with a methed up criminal needs to back it up a bit on what is excessive force.
Don't forget DA's who refuse to prosecute.
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      01-15-2023, 03:12 PM   #7372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinaz View Post
Crime is rising because police are fearful of doing their job. Case in point the arrest above where force was used. Funny how often people who don't resist have zero force employed against them. Also sad how often people who die after arrest have narcotics in their blood streams.

Crime is also rising because people aren't allowed to defend their property for fear of lawsuit. Such as stores can not use force to prevent pilfering or decide to refuse access to people based on visual cues such as high on drugs or homelessness and lack of money.

Until we recognize that sometimes police work IS a bit violent as a response to physical resistance and that just because someone has a video of it doesn't mean it was wrong we will descend into more chaos.

Please do not misinterpret. If police clearly use force against someone that is not resisting or use excessive force they need to be stopped and that is a problem as well. But the public who have never wrestled with a methed up criminal needs to back it up a bit on what is excessive force.
This!
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      01-16-2023, 01:00 AM   #7373
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Rain like weve had last week or so reduces efficacy of radar/LiDAR?

Asking for a friend who drove home from Temecula way too fast
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      01-16-2023, 03:01 AM   #7374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Rain like we've had last week or so reduces efficacy of radar/LiDAR?

Asking for a friend who drove home from Temecula way too fast
LIDAR yes! The beam can reflect off of the falling water just like the beam from headlights/fog lights. The falling water acts as a prism. No self-respecting law enforcement official is going to shoot LIDAR in the rain (…apologies to the self-respecting law enforcement officials that shoot LIDAR in the rain ).
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      01-16-2023, 08:08 AM   #7375
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Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
English teacher and cousin of BLM co-founder dies after being Tased by LAPD


Initial thoughts:

- tasered 6 times when you have multiple officers on scene that are already hands on? Seems excessive. One time, ok sure maybe. 6? I don't think I've even seen any incidents in the news before with more than 2-3. I could be wrong here. I'll wait for our resident LEOs to chime in.

I don't know how many dynamic arrests you've been involved in but I have been in literally hundreds. Taser is considered less than lethal and is often used for pain compliance. You cannot believe how difficult it can be to subdue someone who is actively resisting and high, without using techniques like baton strikes, and nobody wants to be on video doing that even when it's justified. Let's try to remember that if the subject is compliant then force doesn't get used.

- tasered for a car crash made no sense till the highlighted parts. Why run? This could have been avoided by staying on scene when it was just the one officer. This shifts the entire scenario from "help" to "hunt" so to speak. Maybe a poor choice of verbiage, maybe particularly apt.

Why run exactly, you don't seem to know so why do you expect the police to know? But given policing experience folks who run are most likely running for reasons that aren't apparent and that will heighten the officers response.

- Regardless of DUI, maybe just didn't want to be found at fault if he was driving like an idiot and knew it. On the other hand, maybe just got a concussion and wasn't in the right mind with his brains scrambled from the accident. I didn't see any video of the accident that started it all so I don't know how minor or major it might have been.

Again, who knows. The police don't have a crystal ball and have to respond to the situation before them. Use of Force is a response to a set of circumstances, don't resist and you won't be subjected to force.

- Not having ever taken either cannabis or cocaine, I don't know the effects of them mixing. I do know a couple black guys who have told me it's not uncommon to have diagnosed or undiagnosed heart murmurs and such where a taser could prove fatal. I can't imagine cocaine would make that scenario (undiagnosed heart condition + taser) any better though.

Drug use often has effects on physical, emotional and cardiac aspects of a subject. I don't believe there is a single case where the deployment of a Taser has been signalled out as the sole cause of a death, there is often underlaying factors such as drug use or health problems. Again, how would the police know about those factors, when the reality is the Use of Force is again a response to the actions of the subject.

- Anyone have the data over time showing an increase / decrease in use of force - even less-lethal force - following the introduction of tasers? I could have sworn a while back there was an article showing an increase in use of force overall following the introduction and standardization of tasers.

Use of Force reporting has changed over the years, as has the implementation of less than lethal options. I think someone else attached a line to the FBI crime stats. As I said a few times already, Use of Force is a response to the subject, sure there are instances when excessive force has been used but I suspect those numbers are outliers for the most part.

- I don't know if it was a bit of a catch-22 here as well, damned if you do, damned if you don't. By the time he's resisting and pleading, the drugs or overall situation may have had him genuinely believe he was in fear for his life leading him to struggle more, leading him to get tasered more as the fight/flight response went into overdrive.
Yes
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      01-16-2023, 11:56 AM   #7376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
English teacher and cousin of BLM co-founder dies after being Tased by LAPD


Initial thoughts:

- tasered 6 times when you have multiple officers on scene that are already hands on? Seems excessive. One time, ok sure maybe. 6? I don't think I've even seen any incidents in the news before with more than 2-3. I could be wrong here. I'll wait for our resident LEOs to chime in.

I don't know how many dynamic arrests you've been involved in but I have been in literally hundreds. Taser is considered less than lethal and is often used for pain compliance. You cannot believe how difficult it can be to subdue someone who is actively resisting and high, without using techniques like baton strikes, and nobody wants to be on video doing that even when it's justified. Let's try to remember that if the subject is compliant then force doesn't get used.

- tasered for a car crash made no sense till the highlighted parts. Why run? This could have been avoided by staying on scene when it was just the one officer. This shifts the entire scenario from "help" to "hunt" so to speak. Maybe a poor choice of verbiage, maybe particularly apt.

Why run exactly, you don't seem to know so why do you expect the police to know? But given policing experience folks who run are most likely running for reasons that aren't apparent and that will heighten the officers response.

- Regardless of DUI, maybe just didn't want to be found at fault if he was driving like an idiot and knew it. On the other hand, maybe just got a concussion and wasn't in the right mind with his brains scrambled from the accident. I didn't see any video of the accident that started it all so I don't know how minor or major it might have been.

Again, who knows. The police don't have a crystal ball and have to respond to the situation before them. Use of Force is a response to a set of circumstances, don't resist and you won't be subjected to force.

- Not having ever taken either cannabis or cocaine, I don't know the effects of them mixing. I do know a couple black guys who have told me it's not uncommon to have diagnosed or undiagnosed heart murmurs and such where a taser could prove fatal. I can't imagine cocaine would make that scenario (undiagnosed heart condition + taser) any better though.

Drug use often has effects on physical, emotional and cardiac aspects of a subject. I don't believe there is a single case where the deployment of a Taser has been signalled out as the sole cause of a death, there is often underlaying factors such as drug use or health problems. Again, how would the police know about those factors, when the reality is the Use of Force is again a response to the actions of the subject.

- Anyone have the data over time showing an increase / decrease in use of force - even less-lethal force - following the introduction of tasers? I could have sworn a while back there was an article showing an increase in use of force overall following the introduction and standardization of tasers.

Use of Force reporting has changed over the years, as has the implementation of less than lethal options. I think someone else attached a line to the FBI crime stats. As I said a few times already, Use of Force is a response to the subject, sure there are instances when excessive force has been used but I suspect those numbers are outliers for the most part.

- I don't know if it was a bit of a catch-22 here as well, damned if you do, damned if you don't. By the time he's resisting and pleading, the drugs or overall situation may have had him genuinely believe he was in fear for his life leading him to struggle more, leading him to get tasered more as the fight/flight response went into overdrive.
Yes
Great responses.

Let's also not forget the DOJ's recent report that the vast majority of police contacts [into the millions] never result in force. Force was used in a minutely small percentage of cases overall.

The issue is the public's perception of force. The majority seem to believe force is supposed to look pretty and physical arrests are easy like in the movies. A great analogy is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Anybody who has ever rolled realized the first day that pulling off that pretty choke they saw in a video or learned in class is not easy to do when somebody doesn't want you to do it and is giving you resistance. Let that person be strong and athletic on top of their natural resistance, and you're going to have a difficult time pulling off anything in that dynamic roll. The only thing saving you from getting smashed is the expiration of the 2, 5 or 6 minute buzzer. There are no buzzers on the streets.
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      01-16-2023, 03:10 PM   #7377
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Thanks for the responses guys.
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      01-16-2023, 09:04 PM   #7378
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Sedan,

Did you know the fallen Riverside officer? We were caught in the aftermath driving down to see family in Murrieta

4 Sherrif were south on 15, I figured at first they were escorting someone. Then we got off at Clinton Keith and got stuck in serious traffic at the perps house
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      01-16-2023, 11:20 PM   #7379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Sedan,

Did you know the fallen Riverside officer? We were caught in the aftermath driving down to see family in Murrieta

4 Sherrif were south on 15, I figured at first they were escorting someone. Then we got off at Clinton Keith and got stuck in serious traffic at the perps house
I didn't know either RSO Deputy that tragically lost their life the last two weeks. A buddy of mine who lateraled from LASD to RSO is currently on patrol training at the Lake Elsinore Station, so this most recent shooting hit close to home in a real way.
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      01-22-2023, 08:59 PM   #7380
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If there is a grass median between all 4 lanes (2 north and 2 south) and the driver in the turn lane decides to not wait for the light to turn green and they drive through the median to make a u-turn. What might the citations be?
Had this discussion with a co-worker who drives a truck and says he would only get a "running red" ticket but I thought it would also be destruction of public property due to tearing up the grass or something.
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      01-24-2023, 09:43 AM   #7381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaRC51 View Post
If there is a grass median between all 4 lanes (2 north and 2 south) and the driver in the turn lane decides to not wait for the light to turn green and they drive through the median to make a u-turn. What might the citations be?
Had this discussion with a co-worker who drives a truck and says he would only get a "running red" ticket but I thought it would also be destruction of public property due to tearing up the grass or something.
That median is it be viewed as a wall or other obstruction, so driving through it would be a citation for driving across a divided highway or some similar section. It is not a lane.
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      01-24-2023, 04:04 PM   #7382
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No parking within ___ feet of fire hydrant. California
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      01-24-2023, 04:32 PM   #7383
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No parking within ___ feet of fire hydrant. California
15 ft
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      01-27-2023, 05:35 PM   #7384
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I don't know how people have the guts to park near a hydrant. They will tear your car in half if they need to. No matter what, they are gonna run that hose.
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      01-27-2023, 07:22 PM   #7385
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I don't know how people have the guts to park near a hydrant. They will tear your car in half if they need to. No matter what, they are gonna run that hose.
This is true.
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      01-28-2023, 12:31 AM   #7386
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Quote:
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I don't know how people have the guts to park near a hydrant. They will tear your car in half if they need to. No matter what, they are gonna run that hose.
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      01-29-2023, 12:51 AM   #7387
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Thoughts re Nichols' videos? I'm surprised that 2+ officers had such a hard time restraining him to get the handcuffs on at both encounters. Is that bad training or where the officers deliberately being aggressive/violent?
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      01-29-2023, 01:42 AM   #7388
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*
Who cares it’s just a Subaru. Deserves it anyways fk em’ lol
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      01-29-2023, 02:47 AM   #7389
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How do I down vote a shitty point of view?

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Who cares its just a Subaru. Deserves it anyways fk em lol
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      01-29-2023, 04:22 AM   #7390
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Quote:
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Thoughts re Nichols' videos? I'm surprised that 2+ officers had such a hard time restraining him to get the handcuffs on at both encounters. Is that bad training or where the officers deliberately being aggressive/violent?
Their actions were deliberate. I am not sure whether or not Nichols had history with those officers or what the underlying motivation for the beating was, but I am hoping we find out. With such a coordinated effort on behalf of those officers, I would bet money that wasn’t the first time they’ve engaged in something like that.

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 01-29-2023 at 01:34 PM..
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      01-29-2023, 07:17 AM   #7391
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*
I saw this happen in Toronto years ago.
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      01-29-2023, 07:20 AM   #7392
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Quote:
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Thoughts re Nichols' videos? I'm surprised that 2+ officers had such a hard time restraining him to get the handcuffs on at both encounters. Is that bad training or were the officers deliberately being aggressive/violent?
I haven't seen the video and won't comment on that directly but what I will say and have before, until you've been in a dynamic arrest you can't appreciate how difficult it can be to control someone and handcuff them. The reality is the movies and TV are not realist, arrests can be ugly difficult interactions. I have been involved when it took 4 or 5 officers to ground and cuff a suspect who was small and very high.
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