Michelin Pilot AS4's, doable for winter if you can pick your battles??

[baege]

Hey all

looking for opinions experiences on whether the AS4's can cut it for the winter if you don't have to commute.

would be going on a mid engine Rwd car

don't have a commute and don't really have to drive if conditions aren't favourable.

but at the same time would want to feel free enough that if they are calling for anything less than 2 inches of snow I would feel comfortable going out.

I know a proper dedicated set of winter tires and rims would be better but in my experience even those don't get you full confidence in a RWD powerful car in the winter and I still avoided going out in anything above 2 inches of snow.

so I am debating, can I get by on the AS4's?

[freakystyly]

Doable, yes. Skip the crappy weather until plows come around.

It's those random times you're stuck on a steep hill at a red light and the snow has been coming down wet and heavy, you'll wish otherwise tho.

[BlkGS]

There's a big difference between "2 inches of snow" and "snowed but plowed clean"

Snowed but plowed clean, you're probably fine. 2 inches of snow on the ground, you're probably stuck inside.

[pbonsalb]

AS4 are not snow rated all seasons. Some all seasons have the snowflake designation. On an AWD car, you would be fine — the last 2 winters in NH, I have run AS4 on my F90 M5. I have winters, summers and all seasons all on rims for the car and have not bothered to put the snows on the last 2 years.

On all the RWD cars I have run in the winter in NH, I have used snow tires. Usually I put snows on the stock wheels and buy lighter and wider aftermarket wheels for summer use or I buy a used set of stock wheels for winter use, sometimes going down 1” in diameter if smaller will clear the brakes.

[baege]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

AS4 are not snow rated all seasons. Some all seasons have the snowflake designation. On an AWD car, you would be fine — the last 2 winters in NH, I have run AS4 on my F90 M5. I have winters, summers and all seasons all on rims for the car and have not bothered to put the snows on the last 2 years.

On all the RWD cars I have run in the winter in NH, I have used snow tires. Usually I put snows on the stock wheels and buy lighter and wider aftermarket wheels for summer use or I buy a used set of stock wheels for winter use, sometimes going down 1” in diameter if smaller will clear the brakes.

doesn't seem to be anything better than the AS4 in the snow in the applicable sizes which include a 305/30R20 rear

based on this review:

the michelins seem to be the best...

[Alfisti]

Have you considered an all weather tyre rather than all season? Specifically the Michelin Cross Climate or Conti multimegaweather thingy?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by baege

doesn't seem to be anything better than the AS4 in the snow in the applicable sizes which include a 305/30R20 rear

based on this review:

the michelins seem to be the best...

305/30/20 is wide and stiff, which are not a great combination for snow. Try them out and if you are not happy buy snow wheels or don’t drive in the snow. I find that roads are clear many days in winter. I don’t like snow tires because dry road handling suffers, but they can be necessary if you must drive in snow.

[Alfisti]

Honestly Toronto roads are ploughed and we may get serious snow once every 5 years.

[RM7]

Yeah, Toronto isn't all that far north, sun will come out and melt stuff, surface of the road, etc. You will get a lot of nasty weather from the plains above, ice storms, snow storms, etc., but waiting it out it should get better pretty fast and I doubt there's be a huge issue here. Driving on packed snow should be a rarity. If you do foresee driving on a lot of packed snow and fallen snow, you'll need a pretty aggressive snow tire. You might experience some of those slushy conditions where basically everything but an AT and hardcore snow tire hydroplanes in the slush. Not much you can do there.

If going with a 2nd wheelset though, an aggressive winter tire could be a good idea, doesn't need to be as wide as stock (which will be cheaper) and can run like Nov-March or something.

[pbonsalb]

The OP did not provide his location or required tire size in his original post. I can only speak to my experiences in PA and NH in the New England region of the US, which are southeast of Toronto, but I maybe Toronto winters are milder.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by baege

Hey all

looking for opinions experiences on whether the AS4's can cut it for the winter if you don't have to commute.

would be going on a mid engine Rwd car

don't have a commute and don't really have to drive if conditions aren't favourable.

but at the same time would want to feel free enough that if they are calling for anything less than 2 inches of snow I would feel comfortable going out.

I know a proper dedicated set of winter tires and rims would be better but in my experience even those don't get you full confidence in a RWD powerful car in the winter and I still avoided going out in anything above 2 inches of snow.

so I am debating, can I get by on the AS4's?

Owned a Boxster when I lived east of KC MO. That's mid engine rear wheel drive car of course. Drove it in the snow with it fitted with Pirelli high performance tires and a time or two with Michelin high performance tires. Didn't make it a habit but got caught out a couple of times.

I managed but a time or two it was white knuckle time.

AS4's are all season tires. I'm not a fan of all season tires though they are popular. Years ago all season were referred to as *no* season tires.

I note you live in Toronto. My advice would be to if you are going to drive your Cayman S (I had a 2008 Cayman S, too) in bad weather -- snow -- I'd advise you to get a set of wheels and fit proper snow tires on them.

I had Michelin all season tires on my 2002 VW Golf TDi. Which I bought just 2 months after buying my Boxster in January 2002. I bought the VW because I got caught in the snow with only my Boxster. The tires on the VW were ok and I got complacent only to darn near lose the car on a turn on a frontage road along side I40 in William AZ one snowy day.

Before I could get a set of wheels/snow tires I ended up in CA with no snow in the winter and darn little rain.

Two pics of the Boxster in two different snow storms. That 2nd pic is it parked on the hotel parking lot in Willams the same hotel parking I had driven out of in my Golf (on another trip through there) and almost lost the VW.

No pic of the Cayman S in the snow. I owned it when I lived in northern CA.

Turbo pic take at Boreal Mountain parking lot very near to Donner Ridge.

My M2 with its Michelin high performance tires will sit out the snow.

[lens]

Originally Posted by baege

Hey all

looking for opinions experiences on whether the AS4's can cut it for the winter if you don't have to commute.

would be going on a mid engine Rwd car

don't have a commute and don't really have to drive if conditions aren't favourable.

but at the same time would want to feel free enough that if they are calling for anything less than 2 inches of snow I would feel comfortable going out.

I know a proper dedicated set of winter tires and rims would be better but in my experience even those don't get you full confidence in a RWD powerful car in the winter and I still avoided going out in anything above 2 inches of snow.

so I am debating, can I get by on the AS4's?

As a fellow Canadian, buy winter tires.

All seasons are meant as a last resort of "oh I'm driving and it suddenly snowed and I can make it back home"

I've driven in every condition possible and it's really not that bad as long as you have a good set of winter tires, don't cheap out. Give yourself some distance before braking and modulate your throttle.

I know plenty of people in Toronto that drive M3/M4s with dedicated winter tires, the Nokia s and blizzaks seem to be the popular tires for them.

[Efthreeoh]

I have AS4's on my 3 BMWs. They work pretty good in light snow. I've driven them in 5 inches of snow on an unplowed country road in the mountains of Virginia and nearly made it home 🤣🤣🤣. But I left the traction control on, which cut engine power on the last steep hill I had to climb and I lost momentum. But for the plowed roads up until that part they did a decent job of keeping my E90 moving.

Your question was an occasional and optional drive if necessary on 2 or less inches of snow. I think they will work for you.

[XutvJet]

I live in Kansas City which gets around 15-20 inches of snow a year. Snow removal is pretty good and most snow cleared within 2 to 6 hours of snow fall. I own a 2011 Cayman 6MT and installed AS4s on it and I run them all year round. I installed them in January of this year and drove in 20 degree weather and on wet and slightly snow and slush covered roads. The Cayman is shockingly good in the snow. I wouldn't intentionally go out in the snow because I love the car too much and 987.2 Cayman Base 6MTs are pretty hard to find.

I outfitted the car with these tires for three reasons:

1) To be able to drive in all weather conditions, especially cold temps. I simply love the car too much to keep it tucked away in the winter.

2) I wanted to learn the handling characteristics and limits of the car and running these AS4s allows for a bit more slip and a little less grip than something like PS4s.

3) My days of swapping wheels for winter are over.


My other car is a 2016 M235 6MT and the OEM wheels have had AS4s for 3 years now. Those tires are mounted on the OEM wheels and used for winter purposes and I've gone through 2-3" snow with them. They aren't winter tires, but I did fine. I've got 15K miles on those tires. The summer setup on the M235 are PS4s. There is not a massive handling and braking difference between the PS4 and AS4. I'd say 10-15% when it comes to grip in ideal handling conditions. Below 65 degrees, the AS4s are by far the better tire.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by baege

doesn't seem to be anything better than the AS4 in the snow in the applicable sizes which include a 305/30R20 rear

based on this review:

the michelins seem to be the best...

I think this answers your question. It definitely confirmed my experience with the AS4. I've had my E90 18 years and tons of miles. I've had 13 sets of tires on it, from the original RFT 'Stones, to Yokohamas, Pirellli, Goodyear, Firestones, to Michie AS3 and AS4. The Michelins are the best all-season UHP tire. IMO.

[mjj]

Originally Posted by baege

Hey all

looking for opinions experiences on whether the AS4's can cut it for the winter if you don't have to commute.

would be going on a mid engine Rwd car

don't have a commute and don't really have to drive if conditions aren't favourable.

but at the same time would want to feel free enough that if they are calling for anything less than 2 inches of snow I would feel comfortable going out.

I know a proper dedicated set of winter tires and rims would be better but in my experience even those don't get you full confidence in a RWD powerful car in the winter and I still avoided going out in anything above 2 inches of snow.

so I am debating, can I get by on the AS4's?

I am in the same boat. It would help if someone made winter tires in the stock sizes that would fit the OEM wheels.

I am going to get A/S tires and then drive my Jeep on bad days.

[Snave01]

What kind of mileage do the AS4’s get? They make a pilot for motorcycles too that I used to run which were great tires but did wear fairly quickly.

[nick3753]

I had a set on my wife’s Audi S6 a few years ago for a southeast Michigan winter after moving from California. She did not like them, and ultimately moved to a dedicated winter tire (Vredestein Wintrac Pro) which is what I currently use on my daily driven e92m3. She complained of traction issues, though her car is big, heavy and torquey. I think you’d be fine on them for occasional use. If it was your only car, that would be a different story. With winters on my M3, traction is never the issue, it’s ground clearance (lack of) that gets me in trouble.

[bucketfoot]

Get real winter tires.

I cannot understand people that spend the money for this level of a vehicle and then question paying a couple of thousand more to make the car safely drivable in the winter.

I got caught out in a freak storm once without the correct tires. That was enough for me

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

Get real winter tires.

I cannot understand people that spend the money for this level of a vehicle and then question paying a couple of thousand more to make the car safely drivable in the winter.

I got caught out in a freak storm once without the correct tires. That was enough for me

I had Michelin Alpin PA4 winter tires for 3 years on my M235. I hated every moment of it. They handled and braked like utter garbage in temps above 40 degrees. This is a problem because during the Kansas City winter season (December to March) has a ton of 40+ degree days in addition to 0 to 30 degree days and 15-20" snow per season (usually 1" to 2" events). The snow traction wasn't overly impressive either for the compromises in warmer winter weather. The wear was also terrible as winter tires have very soft rubber thus wear extremely fast. I got 15K out of the tires before they were toast. What bothered me the most was the ill handling and braking though. The car is FAR better at accident avoidance with the AS4s in nearly all winter conditions except of driving in snow which accounts for maybe 2% of the winter conditions I drive in. Why prepare for the absolute worst case rather than the norm?

I've driven in 35 Kansas City winters with all sorts of cars and the M235 is the ONLY car that I ever outfitted with winter tires because I bought into the Kool-Aid on these forums that because I lived in an area with true winter, I needed winter tires. I got suckered. The ONLY time I got stuck in the snow was in my wife's 2007 Outback driving in a blizzard and freak snow storm and got it high centered in about 12" on unplowed snow in our hilly neighborhood.

[Humdizzle]

i had the AS3 all seasons on my 335i
stock prius tires on my 86
stock tires on my new civic sport

never had trouble in winter (midwest). I dont get the stellar winter tire type traction. but i can get from A to B pretty easy. i dont drive fast, i start braking early, and take it easy around corners.

if you are at the point of NEEDING winter tires. you probably also need an awd SUV with ground clearance.

[pbonsalb]

If you guys are getting around fine on 305/30/20 AS4 all seasons on RWD cars in the same winter climate and conditions as the OP (Toronto, apparently), then he should be fine as well.

I have an AWD car with 305/40/20 (cushier sidewall) AS3 all seasons and it was so bad in snow that I bought a set of 19'' snow wheels and narrower snows with bigger sidewalls after the first couple of snows. But this is in NH and the winters may be worse.