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Driving with DTC no DSC
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06-20-2008, 12:20 AM | #1 |
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Driving with DTC no DSC
So I was reading a post on DTC vs DSC. Basically DTC polices power a little less than DSC, and allows slightly more slip. I decided drive to work with DTC off today. It almost feels like a different car! I was not driving aggressively at all, but it actually enhances the sensation of power. During short bursts of acceleration around NYC, I could actually feel the FWD kick in as the RWD began to slip.
I also notice around bends the car seems a bit more composed. I believe with DSC on, the ECU applies brakes to single wheels, and decreases engine output when accelerating through turns. This leads to minor changes in weight distribution and unexpected loss of power. I always wondered why the car felt strange through some on/off ramp sweepers. With DSC off, my brain was receiving what was expected of the car. I actually felt a bit more confident accelerating through turns. I am going to continue driving with DSC off for the meantime. Again this may be all in my head, but driving with DTC just feels better overall. I was wondering if anybody else has had experience with this in their XI. |
06-20-2008, 08:44 PM | #2 |
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me!! I always drive with it off
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06-20-2008, 11:56 PM | #3 |
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Yeah I need more seat time with just DTC. Do you turn of DTC too?
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06-25-2008, 09:00 AM | #4 |
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You have to hold the button for 3 seconds.
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06-25-2008, 09:08 AM | #5 | |
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06-25-2008, 09:33 AM | #6 |
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I don't like driving with DTC AT ALL....with DSC if you are understeering it stops you by slowing down. With DTC it shifts power WHICH if you try to correct spins you around in all sorts of weird directions as it did at my last autocross. I don't really know the reasoning but the one run I did with DTC and no DSC sent me pushing around every corner and then when I tried to correct, if by backing off I would oversteer and if by throttle steering I would push further. It made no sense.
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06-25-2008, 10:21 AM | #7 | |
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06-25-2008, 10:24 AM | #8 |
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What on earth are you talking about? The interventions that DSC and DTC perform are the same because they are simply different software maps for the same system. DTC doesn't pay as much attention to under/oversteering as DSC does, but they both respond by braking one or more wheels and/or reducing engine power.
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06-25-2008, 02:23 PM | #9 |
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Where can I find a cheat sheet on DTC and DSC? I've expirimented a little bit, but not a whole lot. I do feel the car correcting and braking for me sometimes when I'm driving like an ass. It's not offensive, but I do miss the unbridled feel of my AWD suby.
I know it defaults to "on", and that pushign the button (lighting the lamp on the dash) turns it off. But that's about it. Where can I find more info on this? |
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06-25-2008, 02:58 PM | #10 | |
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?? DTC responds without braking, it shifts torque, thus changing the logical method of human interaction to the situation..... Where am I wrong exactly?
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06-25-2008, 04:07 PM | #11 | |
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06-25-2008, 05:17 PM | #12 | |
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And I believe the "D" = "Dynamic" (as opposed to driving, not that it matters). |
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06-25-2008, 06:14 PM | #13 | |
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And, as an avid Subie fan myself, I know exactly what you mean about the raw AWD feeling. I actually really like xDrive because of how similar it is to Subie's VTD system.
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06-25-2008, 07:09 PM | #14 | |
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06-25-2008, 09:25 PM | #15 | |
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This is not about im being BMW technican. My respond on this thread is base on mine and my friend experience. If you dont believe me, you can press the dtc for 3 sec. you will see a triangle and circle around it.. You can drift the car around the corner or turning left. You will feel the control still have control of it.. Eventhought you want to let it lose and drift it, It will not let you do it at 100 %. it will allow you to do at least 80 percent of it. i stand correct .. D is for dymanic... traction control and Dymanic Stability control. Sorry about that everyone. |
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06-26-2008, 05:40 AM | #16 |
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I can't explain why you are having trouble drifting, assuming that you have fully disengaged DSC by pushing the dash button for at least 3 seconds. But I can assure you that if you have disengaged it, the stability control will not keep you from losing control of your car.
Check out these two Yutube videos from the PDC skidpad. The first video is how the car behaves with DSC on: [u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dzRdyoardck&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dzRdyoardck&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b] The second video is how the car behaves with DSC off. You'll notice that in this video, the car can spin around completely, which is something that DSC would never allow: [u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RiCMbgcObL4&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RiCMbgcObL4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b] It is definitely possible to fully disengage DSC/DTC by pushing and holding the dash button for at least 3 seconds. Both the the BMW Chassis Dynamics training manual and the Owner's manual fully explain this. They're attached below, but I can't get the attachments to work properly. The top image is from Chassis Dynamics manual for the E85, but it applies equally to the E9X. The bottom image is from the Owner's Manual
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Last edited by Lassaxi; 06-26-2008 at 05:43 AM.. Reason: Fixing attachments |
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06-26-2008, 09:23 AM | #17 |
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I always (if i remember) push the button for 3 seconds before I drive off. Its a lot of fun specially with xDrive.
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06-29-2008, 05:10 AM | #18 |
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i was driving up a parking entrance pretty awkward slope, halfway through, the the car seemed could not catch the gear creaping forward with the triangle sign came on...then, i put to Neutral 'N' and let the car roll back a little and try with DTC '3 sec OFF'...it seemed the same and i can hear & feel of engine couldn't catch the gear...have i damaged the gearing system or anything?
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07-01-2008, 12:08 PM | #19 |
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http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...n_control.html
Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) allows for sports-style driving dynamics even when DSC is controlling stability and when wheel traction is higher. Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) is a sub-function of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system that can be turned on and off. DTC has two major uses: to regulate traction and to enable sports-style driving while providing active stability control. If the front wheels are stuck in snow and cannot spin properly, this leads to slip on the rear wheels (when they spin faster than the front wheels, generally a sign that performance has been exceeded) and DSC acts to change engine output: the power needed for forward movement is reduced. Switching to DTC has a positive effect on this situation, as traction is improved without a loss of power. When DTC is on, it helps the driver alleviate the situation enough for DSC's measures to become effective. The driver retains complete control over the vehicle. |
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07-02-2008, 03:04 PM | #20 |
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I was told that when you disable DSC by holding it down for 3secs at a certain speed it comes back on.
There is also another mode, if you hold down the button for at least 10secs (I think it beeps and the lights flash and the DSC DTC lights are off) everything is turned off completely including ABS... You can confirm that it is off by press the DSC button and nothing happens. The only way to get it back on is to restart the car. |
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07-02-2008, 03:10 PM | #21 | |
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07-02-2008, 03:17 PM | #22 |
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hahah ok so...... i pressed and held it for about 10 seconds. The light turned off, and as you said pressing it again would not turn the stuff back on. So I backed out of my driveway and before i could get to the bottom a bunch of errors came on the screen followed by service engine image (car up on the lift icon) and a message saying basically saying "DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR!!!!!!!"
can someone please confirm with me that this = fully off stability and traction? and is it ok to drive with all these ridiculous errors and service warnings? |
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