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      09-25-2020, 12:55 AM   #45
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That's hilarious, even now they can't supply enough electricity, but hey we have solution for shortages, switch all cars to electric. That governor Newsom lost the touch with reality.
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      09-25-2020, 01:18 AM   #46
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[...] In 15 years, I probably will have no interest left in new ICE cars. I think 6 cylinders will be about the biggest cylinder count you can get within a decade and I personally have no interest in a high strung 4 pot turbo engine.
I think that's where I'd disagree...or at least provide a thorough addendum. As electric (and autonomous self-driving, rideshared, etc) cars become the norm it will create a niche for enthusiast oriented ICE cars that are unbound by the regs for street legality. That will push ICE cars the same way horses went with the proliferation of cars - free to become specialized for showing, racing, and work. Instead of purchasing an M2 or M4 weighed down by safety features and creature comforts, we can get something more like an m240iR or M4 GT4. They could bring back classics like the e30 M3 Evo as a production car. They could sell you a turnkey Formula BMW car. Keep it in your garage, hail yourself an autonomous Tesla Cybertruck, hitch your trailered racecar to it, and sleep in luxury on your way to the track.
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      09-25-2020, 06:48 AM   #47
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I think that's where I'd disagree...or at least provide a thorough addendum. As electric (and autonomous self-driving, rideshared, etc) cars become the norm it will create a niche for enthusiast oriented ICE cars that are unbound by the regs for street legality. That will push ICE cars the same way horses went with the proliferation of cars - free to become specialized for showing, racing, and work. Instead of purchasing an M2 or M4 weighed down by safety features and creature comforts, we can get something more like an m240iR or M4 GT4. They could bring back classics like the e30 M3 Evo as a production car. They could sell you a turnkey Formula BMW car. Keep it in your garage, hail yourself an autonomous Tesla Cybertruck, hitch your trailered racecar to it, and sleep in luxury on your way to the track.
I'm all for that future, but the fun cars won't be coming from the OEM's. The only thing I think we'll see more as the norm are these factory workshops that restore these old classics.

That's why the big statement to me is that NEW cars will be banned, but not old. The way I see it happening is cars slowly downsizing engine capacity (ie rumored C63 will be a high strung 4 cylinder with hybrid system), and eventually full blown BEV or hydrogen fuel cells.

I absolutely do think there will be car fanatics like us holding on to dear life to our "antiques". Personally, I wouldn't have much interest in old cars that are for "off-road" use only like a Ferrari FXX
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      09-25-2020, 07:09 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 230iZTR View Post
I think that's where I'd disagree...or at least provide a thorough addendum. As electric (and autonomous self-driving, rideshared, etc) cars become the norm it will create a niche for enthusiast oriented ICE cars that are unbound by the regs for street legality. That will push ICE cars the same way horses went with the proliferation of cars - free to become specialized for showing, racing, and work. Instead of purchasing an M2 or M4 weighed down by safety features and creature comforts, we can get something more like an m240iR or M4 GT4. They could bring back classics like the e30 M3 Evo as a production car. They could sell you a turnkey Formula BMW car. Keep it in your garage, hail yourself an autonomous Tesla Cybertruck, hitch your trailered racecar to it, and sleep in luxury on your way to the track.
But the question remains, will the Amish still drive their horse-drawn buggies on the fast streets of Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, and Indiana in the midst of the EV pandemic?

Race tracks be dammed. I'm driving my ICE on the street. There will be no need for police since autonomous cars won't break any driving laws.
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      09-25-2020, 07:09 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 230iZTR View Post
I think that's where I'd disagree...or at least provide a thorough addendum. As electric (and autonomous self-driving, rideshared, etc) cars become the norm it will create a niche for enthusiast oriented ICE cars that are unbound by the regs for street legality. That will push ICE cars the same way horses went with the proliferation of cars - free to become specialized for showing, racing, and work. Instead of purchasing an M2 or M4 weighed down by safety features and creature comforts, we can get something more like an m240iR or M4 GT4. They could bring back classics like the e30 M3 Evo as a production car. They could sell you a turnkey Formula BMW car. Keep it in your garage, hail yourself an autonomous Tesla Cybertruck, hitch your trailered racecar to it, and sleep in luxury on your way to the track.
For the "unbound by regs for street legality", I guess they are track only cars? If so, like the horses, if you will have a small group of rich people that can afford to trailer their cars to the track. Would be interesting to see if track days could afford to go on with only dedicated track cars. Large manufacturers will never go after this market with new products so only way old classics are coming back is you buy one and fix it up. I would like to have a track only car but the costs of the vehicle/truck/trailer/support parts, then the cost of the track day is more than I am willing to spend today or in the future especially as I would use the car a couple of times per year.

I don't see ICE's getting banned or becoming obsolete in my lifetime so I am not worried about it. My weekend manual ICE is now 14 years old, would be easy to have a 25 year old weekend car today so cars built today will be around as long as I am driving.

I have no issue with daily driving a EV. If they were to cut the battery cost in half we would switch one of our cars to an EV today as the biggest issue is the initial sales price and this is because of the battery. EV to ICE, if initial sales price for equal specs EV has a lot of benefits, especially as 1 in a 2 car daily driver household. Recharge the EV at less than 1/2 the price of the ICE, far less maintenance and repair, refill overnight (nothing I enjoy about the gas station).
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      09-25-2020, 09:04 AM   #50
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OK so if they actually do enforce this for the climate - what is generating all the electricity? Right now they are strained as it is and the grid is in need of improvement. Add every car in the state? Wow. And if no nukes will it actually improve or worsen the net emissions?
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      09-25-2020, 09:33 AM   #51
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OK so if they actually do enforce this for the climate - what is generating all the electricity? Right now they are strained as it is and the grid is in need of improvement. Add every car in the state? Wow. And if no nukes will it actually improve or worsen the net emissions?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...on-since-1975/

Looking at electricity consumption, most 10 year periods usage goes up almost 50% (1975-85, 85-95, 95-2005) but from 2010-2020 growth is close to zero. Where I live when someone wants to build a large factory or subdivision electricity supply is never part of the discussion. It's new cars built after 2035 and CO2 does drop with a gas powered electricity plant powering a car vs. ICE.

Electric car growth is slow, most are recharged at night when overall usage drops, and over time if electricity usage goes up we do have to build new plants.
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      09-25-2020, 09:35 AM   #52
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Not enough time to get the power grid ready (well plenty of time, but it won't happen in that amount of time in this state).

There is not even enough power to run air conditioners during a heat wave.

Its just an executive order anyway.
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      09-25-2020, 10:04 AM   #53
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Good news for Las Vegas housing prices.
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      09-25-2020, 10:21 AM   #54
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The executive order to ban ICE equipped vehicle starting in 2035 - is just an executive order (not a law). It's a worthy goal overshadowed by political ambitions.

First - a few facts.

Between 1982 and 1998, California’s agency land managers burned, on average, about 30,000 acres a year. Between 1999 and 2017, that number dropped to an annual 13,000 acres. The state passed a few new laws in 2018 designed to facilitate more intentional burning.

However, no one's wants intentional burns to prevent larger ones.

To help the electric grid, intentional burns need to continue.

Arbitrary deadlines tend to change over time. There will be lawsuits and modifications, including bringing your own car from another state. The first likely law suit will be filed by an organization which will challenge the order because it discriminates low income residents who can only afford a less expensive, used ICE equipped vehicle.

California will need more charging stations, incentives for home owners to install chargers. One way to accomplish it: partner with US Postal Service and install chargers in USPS owned parking lots, creating a revenue stream. This also means partnering with the Federal Government.

This executive order isn't what it should be: a thoughtful, integrated policy statement.
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      09-25-2020, 10:42 AM   #55
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Interesting that many of the posts says there is a mass evacuation of the state as people move somewhere else and many posts say they don't have enough power to support the people that are there. Seems difficult to have both issues at the same time.
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      09-25-2020, 11:08 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Interesting that many of the posts says there is a mass evacuation of the state as people move somewhere else and many posts say they don't have enough power to support the people that are there. Seems difficult to have both issues at the same time.
I know it seems at odds but it does seem to be true,

https://www.capradio.org/articles/20...new-wildfires/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-politics.html
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      09-25-2020, 12:32 PM   #57
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Quote:
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Interesting that many of the posts says there is a mass evacuation of the state as people move somewhere else and many posts say they don't have enough power to support the people that are there. Seems difficult to have both issues at the same time.
Both are true. Californians are fleeing while at the same time non-Americans are coming in.
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      09-25-2020, 01:12 PM   #58
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Houses in California are being bought up left and right right still driving the prices high, and not enough homes are available (for a competitive market). People aren't leaving FAST enough for me to buy a house right now in CA. It is a sellers market, and people are buying them up at high prices.

https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/h...ring-pandemic/
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      09-25-2020, 09:44 PM   #59
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CA Gov banning gasoline cars...really?

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/23/91620...e-cars-by-2035

California Governor Signs Order Banning Sales Of New Gasoline Cars By 2035

Not sure why this got deleted but I'm posting it here again. Did I offend some California mod?
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      09-25-2020, 09:50 PM   #60
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I suspect this is expected to go into a general discussion forum and not a particular model of BMW subforum.
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      09-25-2020, 10:07 PM   #61
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Quote:
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I suspect this is expected to go into a general discussion forum and not a particular model of BMW subforum.
Ya I thought that maybe but they didn't merge it. Just deleted lol. I mean it's whatever just annoying. Not trying to go threw 50 different forums on here. It's a lot to just keep it to the 10 different F90 threads. Don't do that on the F15/85 side of the house. Just one for the platform and one for the classifieds lol. Simple.

Makes searching a bit simpler that way. Weird how each platform is set up different than the next.
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      09-25-2020, 11:18 PM   #62
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If I live that long, I will go to Nevada or Oregon to buy new non electric car. Then drive few months with other state license plate before change to CA plate.
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      09-26-2020, 08:53 AM   #63
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Same here in EU land. In fact I think they are trying to bring that forward to 2030
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      09-26-2020, 09:09 AM   #64
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Same here in EU land. In fact I think they are trying to bring that forward to 2030
Yes, I recently heared that as from 2026 no lease cars with ICE allowed in Belgium!

So we're probably looking at the very last generation of ICEs before they're banned entirely.
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      09-26-2020, 09:18 AM   #65
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Interesting that many of the posts says there is a mass evacuation of the state as people move somewhere else and many posts say they don't have enough power to support the people that are there. Seems difficult to have both issues at the same time.
Calif is still ICE centric yet they experience rolling blackouts. How many people do you think they need to loose to other states in order to be able to support an EV centric transportation system.
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      09-26-2020, 10:16 AM   #66
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I wouldn't look too much into it. He won't even be governor by then. Lot can change from now till then
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