Should I move to California?

[Nickco43]

The amount of life experiences I have had in the past month or so have been absolutely insane. In late May I finally received a job offer in Denver and that night I flew out to start looking for apartments. I was amazed how Denver was actually nice and everyone was friendly. I lived in Pennsylvania my entire life where everyone was pretty grumpy and Philadelphia is a complete dump. Denver was clean, safe and everyone is happy. I never imagined in a million years a city could be so nice. Once I signed a lease for an apartment in the middle of Denver I flew home, pack up all my stuff in my tiny F30 and made the 24 hour drive across the county to move in. I was in culture shock. Everyone is fit, everyone has a large dog the size on my couch, everyone drives a 4runner or outback, there is good beer everywhere, the streets are clean and I don't hear noise in my apartment. I actually enjoyed living in a city. I statement I thought I would never say.

Once moved in and everyone who helped me move in flew back to Philadelphia I had my first real day truly alone in this new city. Work started in a week and I had nothing to do. I thought to myself you know what this is the last true week of freedom I will have until I retire and I should do something with it. I had always wanted to see some of my friends in California who I have known for a very long time so I checked how much a plane ticket and a rental car was. Turns out pretty cheap and before I knew it I was flying out to Sacramento early Monday morning.

From what I heard back home, California is full of communists, is way too expensive, has homeless everywhere, stand still traffic, is always in drought and has a bunch of earthquakes. I land in Sacramento to a complete shock. It is warm outside, everything is nice, everyone is friendly, there were more homeless in Denver and I didn't see any communists. The area did seem in drought though so that part was true. I met my friends I have never met before and they were some of the nicest people I have ever met in my entire life. Almost like we have been lifelong childhood friends. I drove home that night and I felt "at home", Something I have yet to feel in Denver.

The next day I planned a solo day trip to San Fransisco that I was supposed to be there for only a few hours. When I got back to the hotel the rental car told me I ended up driving nine hours that day because the further I went the more amazing things I saw. I ended up driving though Muir's Woods, Muir's Beach, over the Golden Gate Bridge, down Lombard Street, thought Little Italy, to the Wharf, though China Town, up the steepest street I have ever seen in my life, down the steepest street I have ever seen in my life and down highway one until I ran out of fuel in Santa Cruz which then I realized I am almost three hours away from the hotel. Sitting in the Bay Area traffic which was actually not that bad back to the hotel I was shocked. I have never experienced such amazing places before in my life. Normally I would be angry sitting in traffic at home but here I am somehow calm. I eventually made it back to the hotel and I did something I didn't think I would ever doin my life; Look at how much it would cost for me to live California.

Denver is filled with California tags, my apartment is filled with people from California, it seems like everyone is leaving California for other states. Everyone around me says California is bad but after spending a few days here I have never been this happy in my entire life. I will put my 3 weeks of paid time off to use and I will drive to California for a grand tour of the state sometime in the next year but should I move here? After two years in Denver I will be booted out by my company for field sales to anywhere in the US. I have a unique opportunity to start my life in a new place with the full backing of a very large company with a very good job. Is California a new beginning or a pipe dream? I know that LA is a mess and SF is too expensive for me to live in but it seems like there is a place for me somewhere in this state. Any CA natives have any ideas?

Also there was an earthquake today so that bit is also true.

[POBEP]

Originally Posted by Nickco43

The amount of life experiences I have had in the past month or so have been absolutely insane. In late May I finally received a job offer in Denver and that night I flew out to start looking for apartments. I was amazed how Denver was actually nice and everyone was friendly. I lived in Pennsylvania my entire life where everyone was pretty grumpy and Philadelphia is a complete dump. Denver was clean, safe and everyone is happy. I never imagined in a million years a city could be so nice. Once I signed a lease for an apartment in the middle of Denver I flew home, pack up all my stuff in my tiny F30 and made the 24 hour drive across the county to move in. I was in culture shock. Everyone is fit, everyone has a large dog the size on my couch, everyone drives a 4runner or outback, there is good beer everywhere, the streets are clean and I don't hear noise in my apartment. I actually enjoyed living in a city. I statement I thought I would never say.

Once moved in and everyone who helped me move in flew back to Philadelphia I had my first real day truly alone in this new city. Work started in a week and I had nothing to do. I thought to myself you know what this is the last true week of freedom I will have until I retire and I should do something with it. I had always wanted to see some of my friends in California who I have known for a very long time so I checked how much a plane ticket and a rental car was. Turns out pretty cheap and before I knew it I was flying out to Sacramento early Monday morning.

From what I heard back home, California is full of communists, is way too expensive, has homeless everywhere, stand still traffic, is always in drought and has a bunch of earthquakes. I land in Sacramento to a complete shock. It is warm outside, everything is nice, everyone is friendly, there were more homeless in Denver and I didn't see any communists. The area did seem in drought though so that part was true. I met my friends I have never met before and they were some of the nicest people I have ever met in my entire life. Almost like we have been lifelong childhood friends. I drove home that night and I felt "at home", Something I have yet to feel in Denver.

The next day I planned a solo day trip to San Fransisco that I was supposed to be there for only a few hours. When I got back to the hotel the rental car told me I ended up driving nine hours that day because the further I went the more amazing things I saw. I ended up driving though Muir's Woods, Muir's Beach, over the Golden Gate Bridge, down Lombard Street, thought Little Italy, to the Wharf, though China Town, up the steepest street I have ever seen in my life, down the steepest street I have ever seen in my life and down highway one until I ran out of fuel in Santa Cruz which then I realized I am almost three hours away from the hotel. Sitting in the Bay Area traffic which was actually not that bad back to the hotel I was shocked. I have never experienced such amazing places before in my life. Normally I would be angry sitting in traffic at home but here I am somehow calm. I eventually made it back to the hotel and I did something I didn't think I would ever doin my life; Look at how much it would cost for me to live California.

Denver is filled with California tags, my apartment is filled with people from California, it seems like everyone is leaving California for other states. Everyone around me says California is bad but after spending a few days here I have never been this happy in my entire life. I will put my 3 weeks of paid time off to use and I will drive to California for a grand tour of the state sometime in the next year but should I move here? After two years in Denver I will be booted out by my company for field sales to anywhere in the US. I have a unique opportunity to start my life in a new place with the full backing of a very large company with a very good job. Is California a new beginning or a pipe dream? I know that LA is a mess and SF is too expensive for me to live in but it seems like there is a place for me somewhere in this state. Any CA natives have any ideas?

Also there was an earthquake today so that bit is also true.

Nickco43 - nice write up, thank you!

I am sure you'll get tons of replies.

I moved to San Francisco 21 years ago (from another part of the world).
I lived 2 years in Santa Barbara too.

If you can afford it - California is very nice place to be.

One can find ups and downs in a big city like SF or LA, another in smaller places like Santa Barbara or South Lake Tahoe ...

If you have kids, I would recommend researching public school ratings in the area you plan to move.

IMO, everything else is a matter of personal preference, and, for the most part tolerable.

[The J-Man]

If you think Denver and San Francisco are nice, then PA must be a real dump (I’ve never been)! People leave California for all the reasons that matter as an adult. There is a lot to do in California, there’s history, ocean, mountains, good weather, and big cities - all things of appeal to a young person. At the same time it is a heavily heavily heavily taxed state. Housing is outrageously expensive in the big cities. Infrastructure is in rapid decline. Traffic is beyond nightmarish. As you age and the glamorous aspects of the state have worn off, you’re left with a pretty miserable place to live. That is why so many people leave and never look back. The weather in SoCal is fantastic though!

[evil-G-nius]

My 2 cents. I was born and raised in the East Bay and I had such a great childhood. It is such a pretty state, tons of outdoor activities no matter what part you live in. I moved when I was 12 and all I could think about was gettin back. I finally got a chance to move back but this time I mived to LA area in the San Fernando Valley. Such a different world down there and I loved every bit of it. Its mostly warm & sunny all the time, celebrity sitings all the time (if you are into that) and a car culture that is off the hook. So many differnt foods, so much culture, tons of entertainment....its very hard to get bored honestly.

But that is all the good stuff. Lately, I can't wait to leave this state. Homelessness is insane, home prices are stupid to say the least, most expensive gas in the country, high taxes, crappy roads, increasing crime rates, more & more run ins with really rude & inconsiderate people, exceptional drought conditions every summmer and a constant threat of fires which is nerve racking to say the least. I honestly do not enjoy being here anymore. The luster of my childhood memories has no doubt faded away and the sheer ugliness of today's California reality is imprinted in my mind. I struggle to find a good reason to stay here.

You are going to hear this a lot with these replies I'm sure, if you can afford to live here and the opportunity you have is worth it, then give it a shot. But factor in everything else, most people only think of housing costs. Remember gas, as I stated, is the highest in the country, taxes are high, food costs, insurance costs and so on. PERSONALLY, at this point knowing how it is here, I would not suggest moving here.

[Nickco43]

Originally Posted by The J-Man

If you think Denver and San Francisco are nice, then PA must be a real dump (I’ve never been)! People leave California for all the reasons that matter as an adult. There is a lot to do in California, there’s history, ocean, mountains, good weather, and big cities - all things of appeal to a young person. At the same time it is a heavily heavily heavily taxed state. Housing is outrageously expensive in the big cities. Infrastructure is in rapid decline. Traffic is beyond nightmarish. As you age and the glamorous aspects of the state have worn off, you’re left with a pretty miserable place to live. That is why so many people leave and never look back. The weather in SoCal is fantastic though!

I think in two years I will need to conduct a huge cost benefit analyses but at least now California seems mildly reasonable. I think the biggest factor will be if I can save enough to buy a house in California. Even though houses are very expensive it seems that in most places in California houses will continue to increase in value. Back home my parents house didn’t appreciate at all in almost 20 years. If I can pay for a mortgage, hoa, insurance and taxes for less than it would be to rent a 1 bedroom apartment the equity boost will make living out there “not that bad”.

Once again look at me planning the next stage of my life when I haven’t even started my first day of my “big boy job”.

[evil-G-nius]

Originally Posted by Nickco43

I think in two years I will need to conduct a huge cost benefit analyses but at least now California seems mildly reasonable. I think the biggest factor will be if I can save enough to buy a house in California. Even though houses are very expensive it seems that in most places in California houses will continue to increase in value. Back home my parents house didn’t appreciate at all in almost 20 years. If I can pay for a mortgage, hoa, insurance and taxes for less than it would be to rent a 1 bedroom apartment the equity boost will make living out there “not that bad”.

Once again look at me planning the next stage of my life when I haven’t even started my first day of my “big boy job”.

Out here your mortgage alone, for a good place...not a shithole, is gonna run you at least 3 grand a month depending on your down of course. Factor in HOA if you end up with one, property tax and all the other garbage and it gets steep fast. You will need earthquake & fire insurance...IIRC they are mandatory

[KevinC]

No.

From a 3rd generation California native who bailed.

[fiveohwblow]

California: geographically superior, demographically challenged.

Would not bang.

[2000cs]

Grew up in Newport Beach (CdM), still have family there. Try to visit once a year. Day one it is nice to be back and see familiar sites, etc. Day two I’m getting hints why I left. Day three locals are getting on my nerves. Are they really that shallow and selfish while being so self-assured and smug? Day four ready to go, how long until my flight. Day five, I stayed too long. Time to go.

It has been the same pattern for years. I lived in Orange and Manhattan Beach while working in downtown LA and Century City in the 1980s. So I’ve had the adult experience as well as the kid experience. I’ve driven all over the state (end to end on 1 and I-5, much of the rest of the state as well). There are great people to be found, but for me overall CA is negative. Excessive taxes, regulation and attitude. Once my mom passes I will likely never return.

Some people like it, obviously experience it differently than I do.

[CTinline-six]

No way. Plenty of other great places to live.

[dreamingat30fps]

I dunno but it sounds to me like you need to get out more. I mean you went to Denver and OMG best place I've ever seen, then you go to California for a couple days OMFG fuck Denver what a shithole I'm all about commie life now!

Next month you'll go to Arizona and want to move into an adobe house. I mean if you want to move to CA go for it. However I'm not sure how you can possibly have any real idea of what living in a place is like having spent a few days there on vacation. You haven't had to deal with buying property, paying taxes, been there for all the seasons like today where the high is Sacramento is 111F or the rolling blackouts or your overpriced house about to burn down because of a wild fire.

I don't know what you do or what kind of flexibility you have to travel etc, but if I were you I would travel as much as possible to as many places as possible in the next 2 years before deciding where I want to move.

[M5Rick]

Looks like working class are being priced out by high taxes in Cal on everything and property, high prices there with people leaving so I've read, last I saw there were a large encampment of homeless folks in LA and people want out. Just like in London people want to get out to the outlying areas as getting stitched by the same things as over there by government and money grabbing tyrant Mayor.

[RickFLM4]

California, particularly northern CA, is a great place to visit. Why ruin it by moving there?

[Alfisti]

Where does your family live? My advice, stay close.

[DETRoadster]

Yes, 100%. Because why not? You have a job that will allow you to live anywhere. So why not take them up on that. Go to CA and experience it for all that's good and all that's bad. You may fall in love and stay a lifetime. You may find in X years your life goals have changed and you want to go someplace else. That's life. Go live it, because you can! Ignore all these people that say it's terrible. It was terrible for THEM. But they are not YOU.

I've never understood why so many people approach the question of where to live like they would approach who to marry. Like you have to get it right on the first try as you're stuck forever once you commit. You should think of where to live like you think of who to date. Go have fun, experience, evolve, try something that feels right but doesn't make sense on paper. If you dont like it after X years then move on and try something else. Dont look back on CA in 30 years as "the one that got away." You clearly are intrigued. So keep exploring it as you plan to do and formulate a plan for where to move once you are ready to leave Denver, then pull the trigger, buy a convertible, move to Cali, and never look back. If you dont I guarantee you you will look back in years to come when you no longer have the ability to move because of kids, the job, the wife, and life in general and you will regret it.

[unluky]

Nope.

[sspade]

Just moved to south Florida after living east of Sacramento for the past four years. Great experience and really a wonderful place from a scenery and environmental stand point if you're into the outdoors. The variability of terrain within a few hour drive is second to none. I spent the majority of my time in the Sierra Nevada... hiking, skiing, and everything and anything else outside.

With all that being said... tough place to live as an outsider unless you are pretty loaded. The area that I lived in, Folsom / El Dorado Hills was very nice but average starter homes were in the $500-600k range. These aren't feel good, look at my big beautiful home type of places either... those are more in the $700k + range. If you are thinking... what does $300k-$400k get me, you'll end up in Citrus Heights or Rancho Cordova on a ghetto street. Not exaggerating one bit either.

I ended up getting laid off during COVID which was the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak. Landed a job in Deerfield Beach, Florida and here I am.

Not going to go into Florida in this post (Great state, no qualms other than the humidity and truly "cleaner" overall than the cities in California) but... I feel that I have un finished business out west and plan to move back in the next couple years. Reno is the likely location, close to Tahoe and easy to jump down into California and be in the Bay in a little over 3 hours if you want. No state taxes... enjoy all the benefits of NorCal without having to deal with the negatives. Reno aint cheap these days by any stretch as Californians have been exploiting its proximity to home for a while now but theres still hope.

[Tommy-G]

Great write up....very interesting, I felt like I was touring with you as a passenger!

Remember its always great when on vacation which essentially is what your 3 days was. One of my best friends had the privilege of getting a promotion with BMW NA to live near Santa Barbara and relocated from NJ. He Loved Cali. Very outdoorsy social butterfly type of dude.
He then got another promotion with BMW which had to be done back in NJ. He said its a mixed bag bc he made great friends and got to leave the armpit (Philly is right there with us) but he loved being near NYC/Philly/AC etc....

Its easy to fall in love with a city/state/girl/car for a short time but will you still love them after the honeymoon is over?????

[dscabra]

I was born and raised in California. In fact, until I went into the Army at age 18, I'd only seen California, Oregon, Washington, and Nevada. The Army let me see more of the U.S. as well as many other parts of the world. My last assignment in the Army brought me to Colorado and I absolutely fell in love and have been here for 26 years now. I don't mind visiting California for all the spectacular scenery, but I could never live there again. The politics and cost of living would be my personal reasons for not wanting to live there. My family have gradually fled the state over the past few years as they reached retirement age and now live in Nevada where their income goes a lot farther. Colorado has seen a steady stream of people coming in from California over the years as well. I think this has started to influence Colorado in the areas of politics and cost of living, which has me looking at relocating for retirement myself.

[Nickco43]

Well this thread blew up.

I guess the TLDR is if you are loaded move to California but I should continue traveling around the US.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by Nickco43

Well this thread blew up.

I guess the TLDR is if you are loaded move to California but I should continue traveling around the US.

Sort of. If you have a decent amount of money or income you will like it and get to enjoy the good parts and not have to live in the ghetto. If you're more mid class you can find a better quality of life elsewhere. And you can always visit.

[RugbyBro]

Yes and no - I love CA, it's my home (even though I just moved away for work) but it depends on your priorities. If you are in Tech or Venture there is no better place to be from a career and pay perspective than the Bay - don't be fooled by what anyone else or any headline grabbing publication says... Silicon Valley has always been, is still, and will always be the center of the universe for those industries, and no where else even comes particularly close. If you want to live in the Bay or LA, unless your income is >= $300k, prepare to adjust your expectations of what you can get in terms of space, amenities, and lifestyle *relative* to what you could get in other areas of the country. Also, you will need to adjust your expectations of what an efficient government is...

Pros:
- Beautiful (Central coast and up through NorCal)
- Amazing weather year round
- Awesome lifestyle
- Best food options in the country bar none
- Produce is abundant
- People are pretty chill
- Ground zero when it comes to new tech innovations (honestly pretty cool to see new companies launch their products and services in and around the Bay way before everywhere else)

Cons:
- Awfully run state (lots of ideas, no money to pay for them)... I consider myself a pretty progressive person ideologically, but even I am at a loss when it comes to CA
- Expensive, like really expensive
- Many cities are not very well maintained - related to con #1
- Droughts - not really that big of a deal tbh, just regulate your water usage for gardening and stuff
- Wildfires... yup this is a very real one as of recent years
- Expensive... wait did I mention that already?

TLDR: CA is awesome but expensive and inefficiently run. Horror stories have some truth to them but are way overblown for political reasons, and it is still a prime place to be no matter what people say. Unless you are very wealthy, you will give up a lot to live there (relatively speaking) but you will love it anyway. That seems to be a hard concept for many to understand, but there's a reason why CA is so heavily populated and one of the largest economies in the world.