Why I cancelled my order

[BIGWILL]

I have the same dilemma. My lease is up on my 06 330i in Feb 07 so I started some early comparisons. First, I test drove the Cayman and was truly impressed. Then I test drove the Z-4, it had a rough ride and the only thing I could see out of the rear-view mirror was the front grille of cars and front bumpers of trucks, kinda un-nerving. I have yet to drive the Cayman S or the 335ic. The new Cayman S is seriously out of my budget, so I would have to go with a CPO Cayman S. The 335ic is nice, and there are a host of great things that people on this forum are doing with them, but I guess I'm not as excited as I used to be about BMW's. The M3 was a little disappointing, but I guess like a so-so CD, it has to grow on ya. So now that I've digressed a bit it seems that you have a hard decision on your hands, but one things for sure, if you're going to buy a Cayman, please buy the S, CPO'd or go with the 335 new with all the bells and whistles. Just my 2cents!!!

[010101]

I don't like the fact that they have held back a little in order to not surpass the 911, but it makes good business sense. Hell, BMW held back on the e92 335i just as much as Porsche is holding back on the Cayman. If you buy a car in this price range from a manufacturer who makes more expensive cars in the same class that's what happens.

If you buy a car in this price range from a manufacturer who only makes cheaper cars they will go all out with it. Go and sit in one of these cars and you will soon realize it's better to have a quality manufacturer hold back than have a cheap one go all out. A good example would be a Chevy Corvette. GM didn't hold back with it at all, but you feel like you could be sitting in a $15,000 economy car. With the Porsche you could be sitting in a $130,000 car. They make quality cars that are the best handling in the world. The driving experience of a Porsche will never be matched by GM.

Another example would be a Mitsubishi Evo(although it is only $30k). It's a great car, and they didn't hold back on it.... but essentially it's a rattley economy car with a massively good drive train. Another one is the new Mustang Cobra. They didn't hold back.. it's very fast, but it's still just a heavy weight, poor handling clunker. Everything about the Cayman is superior to these cars other than all out acceleration numbers. The more performance cars you drive the less HP and quarter mile times mean to you. When I'm driving through a mountain road in an Exige I couldn't care less it runs a slower 1/4 mile than a Cobra. I'm sure this would be the same way I felt in a Cayman.

I would rather buy a quality car that handles right and has the right build quality that lacks an limited slip diff. I can always add one later. If you go with a car that is the top of manufacturer's line at $45k it will have sub par build quality that you can never fix.

[Neil]

You seem set on the Cayman so get the Cayman. Why not just lease the normal Cayman for a couple years while saving cash to jump into the S if you so desire.

[010101]

Originally Posted by Neil

You seem set on the Cayman so get the Cayman. Why not just lease the normal Cayman for a couple years while saving cash to jump into the S if you so desire.

Yeah the Cayman is definitely a lot of cash for what you get, but at the same time no lesser manufactures can offer anything close to the feel of a mid engine Porsche. My plan was actually to put down a large down payment, so I don't think I'd save much on my monthly payment by leasing. Plus I'd have to keep the car for a set amount of time and be stuck with nothing when it was over. I guess it's always an option, but I'd like to avoid it if I can. There are 3.8 liter conversions available for the Cayman, so if I run into some money and really want to go crazy that's always an option. Most people agree that a Cayman with a better drive train would be superior to a 911 and everything else on the road handling wise. The only car I've driven that rivals its handling is a Lotus.

[obLu]

With the Porsche you could be sitting in a $130,000 car.

All the modern Porsche interiors feel really cheap to me ... not as cheap as a Corvette ... but def not 130k worth. Crawl under a modern Porsche and it's pretty easy to see why they're so profitable. They're nowhere near as over-engineered as they once were ... strangely their short-term reliability has gone up. Maybe it's because they're not as complex?

I haven't been all that impressed with the build quality on the 996+ Porsches, but I'd still (and will eventually) buy one.

[NFS13]

Originally Posted by obLu

All the modern Porsche interiors feel really cheap to me ... not as cheap as a Corvette ... but def not 130k worth. Crawl under a modern Porsche and it's pretty easy to see why they're so profitable. They're nowhere near as over-engineered as they once were ... strangely their short-term reliability has gone up. Maybe it's because they're not as complex?

I haven't been all that impressed with the build quality on the 996+ Porsches, but I'd still (and will eventually) buy one.

They don't have the best profit margins in the industry by accident.

[010101]

Originally Posted by obLu

All the modern Porsche interiors feel really cheap to me ... not as cheap as a Corvette ... but def not 130k worth. Crawl under a modern Porsche and it's pretty easy to see why they're so profitable. They're nowhere near as over-engineered as they once were ... strangely their short-term reliability has gone up. Maybe it's because they're not as complex?

I haven't been all that impressed with the build quality on the 996+ Porsches, but I'd still (and will eventually) buy one.

Ehh.. I mean I guess it's subjective, but I haven't sat in anything else that impressed me more at that price. Its interior is very similar to the $130k 997 turbo. Parts of the Porsche interior that would be plastic on a Bimmer or any other car in this range are metal. If you pay a little extra and get full leather the interior will be as nice as an Aston's or Lambo's. For a little over $50k I don't think you could get a better sports car interior.

[Dante]

Go for the Cayman, but order it in white. It looks awesome in white!

Edit: My favorit techart GT www.techart.de

[010101]

Originally Posted by Dante

Go for the Cayman, but order it in white. It looks awesome in white!

Haha It's funny you suggest that out of all of the colors it comes in that's the one I was thinking of getting. I also like the metallic blues, but I'm thinking the white will be a lot easier to take care of. Plus it's a flat color, so I don't have to pay extra for metallic paint. Now I just have to figure out the interior. I'm thinking stone gray is nice looking. Do you see many Caymans in Germany?

[Dante]

Originally Posted by 010101

Haha It's funny you suggest that out of all of the colors it comes in that's the one I was thinking of getting. I also like the metallic blues, but I'm thinking the white will be a lot easier to take care of. Plus it's a flat color, so I don't have to pay extra for metallic paint. Now I just have to figure out the interior. I'm thinking stone gray is nice looking. Do you see many Caymans in Germany?

See my edit of above post!

[010101]

I'm not so sure about the black wheels, but other than that

[Dante]

Originally Posted by 010101

I'm not so sure about the black wheels, but other than that

Hehe, you should visit their website, those wheels are also available in silver (see pic)
There's also a widebody-kit, but thats not on my list.

There are 3 dealers in California, according to their website www.techart.de

No, I don't see many Caymans over here, but I've seen that white techart GT in person, stunning!

[obLu]

Its interior is very similar to the $130k 997 turbo

That's because they use the same interior components in EVERY model. I'm not harping on it, I'm just saying I didn't feel it was as quality as the money asked. But I prefer the older Porsche interiors, all business and no styling, no excuses, no apologies for crappy materials. Just a plank and some guages is all I need in a sports car anyway.

If you pay a little extra and get full leather the interior

Isn't the full leather packaged close to 6k?

[010101]

Originally Posted by obLu

That's because they use the same interior components in EVERY model. I'm not harping on it, I'm just saying I didn't feel it was as quality as the money asked. But I prefer the older Porsche interiors, all business and no styling, no excuses, no apologies for crappy materials. Just a plank and some guages is all I need in a sports car anyway.



Isn't the full leather packaged close to 6k?

Full leather MSRPs for $2095.. which brings the grand total MSRP to $51,495, but there's a lot of room to save money. I personally can't think of a car with an interior that's as good as a full leather Camyan interior for the same money. Anyway, even if the Cayman's interior is not at the top of its class I don't really care. I would gladly ride around in cloth seats if I could save a few bucks. I want a Cayman for the overall feel of it more than anything else. To me nothing else that's as practical as the Cayman offers as good of a driving experience.

[DrewKo]

Cayman is so over-priced for what you get. A 335i blows it away in all aspects of performance, drivability, price and gutsy feel. The only thing the standard Cayman has going for it is nice looks. But its performance does not come close to the looks. The Cayman S is much better and you can feel that when you drive it. However, its 70k. So, again, no match for a 335i, which stock will walk it. Add a Procede, and there's not even a close contest. Poor choice in cancelling your order in my opinion.

[fobunited]

Well ultimately, it's your choice. Before I ordered my 335, I also considered getting a Cayman. I drove it and loved how it drove, however I realized that it only FEELS fast, it isn't really fast.

Also, as mentioned above, I wasn't too impressed with the interior. The base model doesn't even have power seats! You'd think that would come standard at that price. The car drove and felt great, but it almost felt like I was driving a classy go-kart. It's fun for sure, but not practical.

Another gripe of mine is knowing that Porsche makes about 30k off of every car it sells, meaning a 60k optioned Cayman only costs Porsche about half of that. I love their cars and they're unique, but knowing you're paying 30 extra thousand for that unique driving experience makes me think twice.

[010101]

Originally Posted by fobunited

Well ultimately, it's your choice. Before I ordered my 335, I also considered getting a Cayman. I drove it and loved how it drove, however I realized that it only FEELS fast, it isn't really fast.

Also, as mentioned above, I wasn't too impressed with the interior. The base model doesn't even have power seats! You'd think that would come standard at that price. The car drove and felt great, but it almost felt like I was driving a classy go-kart. It's fun for sure, but not practical.

Another gripe of mine is knowing that Porsche makes about 30k off of every car it sells, meaning a 60k optioned Cayman only costs Porsche about half of that. I love their cars and they're unique, but knowing you're paying 30 extra thousand for that unique driving experience makes me think twice.

Fast in a straight line? The base Cayman is not only slow... for a $50k sports car it's pathetic in this department. If you factor in its handling characteristics, weight and brakes it actually is probably pretty quick around a track.

My favorite driving is on twisty mountain roads. I find that brute force acceleration is not the limiting factor of going fast on a twisty road. It's the handing and braking limitations that will slow you down. I would bet that a base Cayman will easily pull away from a 335i on a mountain road.

Most true sports cars don't come standard with electric seat controls because they add a lot of unnecessary weight. The e46 M3 didn't come standard with them either. I think they add about 50lbs which is a lot considering I pretty much never change my driving position. On a 3600 lb e92 it's probably not as big of an issue, but the Porsche is over 700 lbs lighter. BTW on an Elise or Exige they don't even adjust to save weight! They only slide forwards and backwards.

I'm not sure where that $30k off every car number came from, but I would bet it was an average profit per car. You have to remember that for a Porsche the base Cayman is cheap. Up until 2006 Porsche sold half million dollar cars which probably got factored into your profit number.

[obLu]

A 335i blows it away in all aspects of performance

Err .... no. Fanboy much?

(all stats from company websites)
Top Speed:
Porsche Cayman: 171mph
BMW 335i: 130/150mph depending on tires electronically limited (and don't give me crap about how it will do better if ... )

0-60:
Cayman: 5.1sec
335i: 5.3sec

I've already found you two areas where the 335 doesn't blow it away. It's got it on price ... and probably reliability. But that's like saying a Camry's got the 335 on price and reliability.

When are people going to get it that the 3 series, in none of it's iterations is a sports car? It's a GT. A Cayman is a sports car. A sports car isn't all about raw #'s .... even though the base Cayman's numbers are better than a 335's.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by fobunited

Well ultimately, it's your choice. Before I ordered my 335, I also considered getting a Cayman. I drove it and loved how it drove, however I realized that it only FEELS fast, it isn't really fast.

If you're complaining about lack of power seats then you really shouldn't be looking at a sports car. The Cayman and 335 are two different monsters, if you want luxury then stick with BMW. If you want something that feels fast light to light on your commute to work every day then a Porsche isn't for you.

[ALPINE6SPD]

Why not get a pre owned S? They drop likes BRICKS in resale. You can get a new one around here for 1500 over invoice.

[DrewKo]

Originally Posted by obLu

Err .... no. Fanboy much?

(all stats from company websites)
Top Speed:
Porsche Cayman: 171mph
BMW 335i: 130/150mph depending on tires electronically limited (and don't give me crap about how it will do better if ... )

0-60:
Cayman: 5.1sec
335i: 5.3sec

I've already found you two areas where the 335 doesn't blow it away. It's got it on price ... and probably reliability. But that's like saying a Camry's got the 335 on price and reliability.

When are people going to get it that the 3 series, in none of it's iterations is a sports car? It's a GT. A Cayman is a sports car. A sports car isn't all about raw #'s .... even though the base Cayman's numbers are better than a 335's.

Nah, that's total b.s. The only place where Cayman may performance better is handling, and it won't be a perceivable difference. There may be less body roll, but that's taking turns on a track, not driving it, even pushing it, off a track on other roads. I have no idea what a 335i does for top speed in reality because it is electronically limited in reality. In the case of the sport model, its limited to 153-155. There are numerous articles reporting a 0-60 of 4.8 for the 335i, and I won't waste the time of those who are familiar with them to list here, because you can find them by simply searching this site. I personally did a 0-60 of 4.9 in run flat tires before installing Procede. Now the 0-60 is about 4.5-4.6. I'm still about $20k under the price of any Cayman S and will walk that biyatch in a heart beat. So, you are sadly mistaken my friend. No problem though. :rocks:

[010101]

Originally Posted by DrewKo

Nah, that's total b.s. The only place where Cayman may performance better is handling, and it won't be a perceivable difference. There may be less body roll, but that's taking turns on a track, not driving it, even pushing it, off a track on other roads. I have no idea what a 335i does for top speed in reality because it is electronically limited in reality. In the case of the sport model, its limited to 153-155. There are numerous articles reporting a 0-60 of 4.8 for the 335i, and I won't waste the time of those who are familiar with them to list here, because you can find them by simply searching this site. I personally did a 0-60 of 4.9 in run flat tires before installing Procede. Now the 0-60 is about 4.5-4.6. I'm still about $20k under the price of any Cayman S and will walk that biyatch in a heart beat. So, you are sadly mistaken my friend. No problem though. :rocks:

Actually what you're saying is total BS. First of all if you think the handling differences "won't be perceivable” then you obviously haven't driven both cars. A mid engine, stiff suspension, 2800LB car with performance tires is in an entirely different league than the 3600lb, run flat equipped, luxury suspension e92. I don't mean any disrespect to the Bimmer, but that is just a fact. I don't care if Shiv gives your 335i 700 RWHP it will not out handle (or out brake) a Cayman on a track. Anyone who had driven both cars would know that.

As far as real performance numbers go the Cayman S easily beats the 335i at every single one of them (slalom, braking, acceleration, top speed, road holding, lap times). This is according to an unbiased source (Road & Track) using two new cars in equal conditions. The 2.7 liter standard Cayman also easily beats the 335i in every single area of performance except straight line acceleration, and even there it is only a couple tenths behind to 60 and through the 1/4 (also according to Road & Track). The 335i is a great car, but it will never be the light weight, mid engine, perfectly balanced track day car the Cayman is. But then again it was never meant to be...


Edit: One other thing I forgot to mention. If you want to start talking about mods and what cars are cheaper for the performance you get think about what would happen if you bought an Evo RS and spent $1k on an ecu mod. You would have a car for well under $30k that would annihilate the 335i with or without Procede.