Fully optioned non luxury vs luxury brand

ThinkRevolutionx · 03-15-2016, 10:39 AM

I've been giving this some thought with what I view as kind of a revolution in the quality of vehicles. Ten years ago, almost every non luxury brand was a sort of econobox no frills transport vehicle.

Nowadays, the "boring" brands have really come out swinging and are only getting better. Fantastic vehicles can be had for killer prices, the new maxima, mazda 6, redesigned civic, etc etc.

I recall when pricing out my 435, how far I had to go in order to match up with the options available on a $23,000 toyota. This brought me to a fundamental thought..

Are we emotionally invested in branding, or are we really getting more vehicle for our money?

To make it more simple (I know specific examples can be cited that may not prove this true, i'm speaking broadly) you can take almost any "size" vehicle - compact, midsize, large, suv, truck from the non luxury brands, and get an optioned to the teeth version for around where the luxury brand would start with no options at all.

Is the experience really that different in the Lexus and Infiniti?
Why get the Range Rover over the Ford explorer platinum with every option known to man? The 335i over the Maxima with quadruple the options at the same price point, etc.

Genuinely curious about peoples opinions and experiences.

Edited for grammar.

lens · 03-15-2016, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThinkRevolutionx

I've been giving this some thought with what I view as kind of a revolution in the quality of vehicles. Ten years ago, almost every non luxury brand was a sort of econobox no frills transport vehicle.

Nowadays, the "boring" brands have really come out swinging and are only getting better. Fantastic vehicles can be had for killer prices, the new maxima, mazda 6, redesigned civic, etc etc.

I recall when pricing out my 435, how far I had to go in order to match up with the options available on a $23,000 toyota. This brought me to a fundamental thought..

Are we emotionally invested in branding, or are we really getting more vehicle for our money?

To make it more simple (can I know specific examples can be cited that may not prove this true, i'm speaking broadly) you can take almost any "size" vehicle - compact, midsize, large, suv, truck from the non luxury brands, and get an optioned to the teeth version for around where the luxury brand would start with no options at all.

Is the experience really that different in the Lexus and Infiniti?
Why get the Range Rover over the Ford explorer platinum with every option known to man? The 335i over the Maxima with quadruple the options at the same price point, etc.

Genuinely curious about peoples opinions and experiences.

Drive the car and it'll answer the question for you.

I cannot go back to any non luxury brand anymore, driving hondas or Toyota is boring as hell, and it feels strange.

There is something about mercedes, audi, bmw, lexus etc.. that keeps you hooked, it's hard to explain.

Remember, those vehicles are for people who go A to B and want some type of luxury, while our vehicles have us enjoy getting there.

kunzjob · 03-15-2016, 10:49 AM

My advice: Go to Germany, drive on the Autobahn, witness the vehicles around you, then ask yourself the same question. My answer is HELL YES I want a German automobile that can routinely handle that abuse year after year while I putt around here in the states (NYC) and spend most of my time below 75mph and some 98% of my time below 100mph.

MightyMouseTech · 03-15-2016, 10:52 AM

When you work on cars, you see why the German cars are more expensive. They are just built better.

This is also why I work at Acura, and drive two BMWs. And why about half the techs here do as well. Only one tech actually drive's an Acura, and that is because he has been here since the brand started.

I just wanted a better built small car. Prices for options did not really enter my mind, any car company can slap a bunch of crap onto a car. I don't really give a shit about perceived "luxury". In Germany, it is not a luxury car, it is just a car.

lowbudgethero · 03-15-2016, 11:03 AM

depends on the car, some of the fun non luxury cars are well built and grab my attention FRS, WRX, Camaro, Mustang.

All I really care about is being comfortable enough to take long drives in it and how fun it is to drive.

I personally don't care for the options on most cars though so the japanese upping their game is lost on me. They have been making better seats and increasing their ergonomics which has made me consider them.

With BMW when you see people putting 2x the power through the stock drive train you realize where the money went. Also some of these economy cars are still less enjoyable than my 200 dollar 1994 audio 90 was

, which makes shelling out 24K for a "top of the line" civic seem like highway robbery.

gtron · 03-15-2016, 11:04 AM

IMO, they're not there yet but they are very much catching up in technology and comfort but not quite in performance.

I've noticed this too. I had to take an Uber recently and drove in a Toyota Camry. I was very surprised how loaded it was. I even took a picture or video from the back seat so I could share. It's not quite to luxury standards and certainly wouldn't drive as well as even it's big sister Lexus but still very surprised.

From what I've heard recently on this forum and other places, the Ford Explorer would give the X5 a run for it's money.

After driving several rentals, it's always a pleasure to get back into one of my cars. They just drive better. Just taking an on ramp at a high rate of speed will start to show the blemishes beneath the makeup. Another example of stripping the spanx from her waist is to toss it in manual mode. The rentals made me work to get a comfortable amount of power to switch lanes at speed.

They're catching up but not quite there. It's good though because it forces the luxury brands to push harder and they will need to start to give us more of what we're looking for if they want to keep us as customers.

C5driver · 03-15-2016, 11:07 AM

That's why there're a gazillion choices...because of needs, wants, and limitations.

When I move, I'll be keeping one nice car and getting a couple beater cars...an SUV and a reliable utility sedan, regardless of make.

mremg · 03-15-2016, 11:07 AM

I think it comes down to intangible things. There is definitely some sorta brand loyalty involved but overall there is still lot of value in luxury brands with their adaptive suspensions, driver adjustable dynamics, sporty exhausts and importantly infotainment systems. I think the advent of Carplay might take away that advantage, but Audi/BMW/MB infotainment systems are leaps and bounds better than any non-luxury brands.

David70 · 03-15-2016, 11:11 AM

I ended up with an ATS as a daily driver and an Z4M as a weekend car because I wanted the driving dynamics of a RWD car that has a relatively low weight and handles well. If a non luxury brand car can match this I am willing to look.

I would be interested in a 4 door Mustang or Camaro (Chevrolet SS has horrible gas mileage and not crazy about the look).

Never_Enough · 03-15-2016, 11:37 AM

A lot of it is badge whore bs. Same materials for the most part. Most people don't care about cars & only want it for A to B. The enthusiast is a very small portion of the market.

There are crap cars from every brand

Never_Enough · 03-15-2016, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mremg

but overall there is still lot of value in luxury brands with their adaptive suspensions, driver adjustable dynamics, sporty exhausts and importantly infotainment systems. I think the advent of Carplay might take away that advantage, but Audi/BMW/MB infotainment systems are leaps and bounds better than any non-luxury brands.

Small portion of it maybe. For example, GM has had mag ride suspension for a long time & it's very good.

Em135eye · 03-15-2016, 11:42 AM

Don't give two hoots about brand.
Just happens that BMW makes the best hot hatch (and the only RWD one), Subaru makes the best proper 4x4 estate and VW makes the only factory built, fully warrantied camper van.

Brand slavery is for vacuous idiots.

mremg · 03-15-2016, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoostedRide

Small portion of it maybe. For example, GM has had mag ride suspension for a long time & it's very good.

Yes, that's true. From what I gather both GM & Audi source the Magride from the same supplier. But does GM use Magride in any non-Cadillac models? (barring Chevy SS)

Mike00 · 03-15-2016, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mremg

Yes, that's true. From what I gather both GM & Audi source the Magride from the same supplier. But does GM use Magride in any non-Cadillac models? (barring Chevy SS)

Camaro and Corvette...

MightyMouseTech · 03-15-2016, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mremg

Yes, that's true. From what I gather both GM & Audi source the Magride from the same supplier. But does GM use Magride in any non-Cadillac models? (barring Chevy SS)

And Acura on the MDX. What a f*ing nightmare that crap was. Thank god they don't put it on the new ones.

Recalls after recalls, terrible build quality, they fail......A LOT. A set of shocks struts is $7000 to replace. Some customers have gone through several sets. They ride like crap, too soft in the soft setting, and the firm setting will rattle your teeth. The standard $100 shocks are 100X better in every way.

My sister was quoted $22,000 to replace the mag shocks on her R8 because all four are blown at only 35,000 miles.

/rant.

Never_Enough · 03-15-2016, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mremg

Yes, that's true. From what I gather both GM & Audi source the Magride from the same supplier. But does GM use Magride in any non-Cadillac models? (barring Chevy SS)

Yes, several...

Chez · 03-15-2016, 02:09 PM

I went with option 3: A fully optioned luxury car instead of a supercar

aloksatoor · 03-15-2016, 02:10 PM

Barring the Toyota Land Cruiser I would always go for abase luxury

David70 · 03-15-2016, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

And Acura on the MDX. What a f*ing nightmare that crap was. Thank god they don't put it on the new ones.

Recalls after recalls, terrible build quality, they fail......A LOT. A set of shocks struts is $7000 to replace. Some customers have gone through several sets. They ride like crap, too soft in the soft setting, and the firm setting will rattle your teeth. The standard $100 shocks are 100X better in every way.

My sister was quoted $22,000 to replace the mag shocks on her R8 because all four are blown at only 35,000 miles.

/rant.

Interesting. I have the Magnetic Ride shocks on my ATS and researched this before I bought mine. Set of 4 magnetic ride struts/shocks - $1400. I really like them and reviews on GM products don't look like they wear out really quickly. Even though purchased from Delphi, maybe Acura/Audi can make them super expensive and really suck?

W/O AWD and With FE3 Sport Suspension
http://www.gmpartsdirect.co/auto-par...omponents-scat

PoorLurker · 03-15-2016, 08:49 PM

Drive this in base model form - with no options... If you know anything about Porsche you know they are like a nice steakhouse where you order steak... and only get steak.. no vegetables, french fries... just steak.. the rest are sides.

Now drive this fully optioned clicking til your heart desires.

Then come back and ask the question.

PoorLurker · 03-15-2016, 08:50 PM

I put a lot of emphasis on what looks good.

The car can be near the holy grail in terms of being an affordable driver's car (see Lotus Exige) but I wouldn't own one because it's not pretty to me.

Also, there are cars that I would feel weird driving as they don't "fit me".

Just like I admire many different types of clothing styles, however, I wouldn't wear them because they don't "fit me".

Em135eye · 03-16-2016, 02:16 AM

Options are such a rip off though.
There's a well known case where a standard engine A6 was optioned up to nearly £80k (base car was half that); the options retained about 10% of their value in three years.

We view a few things as fairly important but the only vital thing is a good engine and chassis.

03-15-2016, 10:39 AM	#1
ThinkRevolutionx Private 26 Rep 94 Posts Drives: Raptor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	Fully optioned non luxury vs luxury brand I've been giving this some thought with what I view as kind of a revolution in the quality of vehicles. Ten years ago, almost every non luxury brand was a sort of econobox no frills transport vehicle. Nowadays, the "boring" brands have really come out swinging and are only getting better. Fantastic vehicles can be had for killer prices, the new maxima, mazda 6, redesigned civic, etc etc. I recall when pricing out my 435, how far I had to go in order to match up with the options available on a $23,000 toyota. This brought me to a fundamental thought.. Are we emotionally invested in branding, or are we really getting more vehicle for our money? To make it more simple (I know specific examples can be cited that may not prove this true, i'm speaking broadly) you can take almost any "size" vehicle - compact, midsize, large, suv, truck from the non luxury brands, and get an optioned to the teeth version for around where the luxury brand would start with no options at all. Is the experience really that different in the Lexus and Infiniti? Why get the Range Rover over the Ford explorer platinum with every option known to man? The 335i over the Maxima with quadruple the options at the same price point, etc. Genuinely curious about peoples opinions and experiences. Edited for grammar. Last edited by ThinkRevolutionx; 03-15-2016 at 10:45 AM..
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03-15-2016, 10:49 AM	#3
kunzjob Private First Class 40 Rep 111 Posts Drives: Harley Davidson Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Cali iTrader: (0)	My advice: Go to Germany, drive on the Autobahn, witness the vehicles around you, then ask yourself the same question. My answer is HELL YES I want a German automobile that can routinely handle that abuse year after year while I putt around here in the states (NYC) and spend most of my time below 75mph and some 98% of my time below 100mph.
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03-15-2016, 10:52 AM	#4
MightyMouseTech Major General 4338 Rep 6,196 Posts Drives: 13 135i 6MT LeMans Blue MSport Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada iTrader: (0)	When you work on cars, you see why the German cars are more expensive. They are just built better. This is also why I work at Acura, and drive two BMWs. And why about half the techs here do as well. Only one tech actually drive's an Acura, and that is because he has been here since the brand started. I just wanted a better built small car. Prices for options did not really enter my mind, any car company can slap a bunch of crap onto a car. I don't really give a shit about perceived "luxury". In Germany, it is not a luxury car, it is just a car. Last edited by MightyMouseTech; 03-15-2016 at 11:01 AM..
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03-15-2016, 11:03 AM	#5
lowbudgethero Captain 125 Rep 750 Posts Drives: '98 Z3M (gone), '09 135i Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: 908 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 BMW 135i [8.50]	depends on the car, some of the fun non luxury cars are well built and grab my attention FRS, WRX, Camaro, Mustang. All I really care about is being comfortable enough to take long drives in it and how fun it is to drive. I personally don't care for the options on most cars though so the japanese upping their game is lost on me. They have been making better seats and increasing their ergonomics which has made me consider them. With BMW when you see people putting 2x the power through the stock drive train you realize where the money went. Also some of these economy cars are still less enjoyable than my 200 dollar 1994 audio 90 was , which makes shelling out 24K for a "top of the line" civic seem like highway robbery.
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03-15-2016, 11:04 AM	#6
gtron powerhouse 708 Rep 1,628 Posts Drives: 2014 Porsche 981 CS Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2016 Mercedes C450 AMG [10.00] 2016 Lexus RC 200t [0.00] 2014 Porsche [9.50] 2012 550i M-Sport [7.86]	IMO, they're not there yet but they are very much catching up in technology and comfort but not quite in performance. I've noticed this too. I had to take an Uber recently and drove in a Toyota Camry. I was very surprised how loaded it was. I even took a picture or video from the back seat so I could share. It's not quite to luxury standards and certainly wouldn't drive as well as even it's big sister Lexus but still very surprised. From what I've heard recently on this forum and other places, the Ford Explorer would give the X5 a run for it's money. After driving several rentals, it's always a pleasure to get back into one of my cars. They just drive better. Just taking an on ramp at a high rate of speed will start to show the blemishes beneath the makeup. Another example of stripping the spanx from her waist is to toss it in manual mode. The rentals made me work to get a comfortable amount of power to switch lanes at speed. They're catching up but not quite there. It's good though because it forces the luxury brands to push harder and they will need to start to give us more of what we're looking for if they want to keep us as customers. __________________ no signature. except for this one.
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03-15-2016, 11:07 AM	#7
C5driver Major 3471 Rep 1,125 Posts Drives: 55...just kidding. Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: 33.6167° N, 117.8975° W iTrader: (0)	That's why there're a gazillion choices...because of needs, wants, and limitations. When I move, I'll be keeping one nice car and getting a couple beater cars...an SUV and a reliable utility sedan, regardless of make.
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03-15-2016, 11:07 AM	#8
mremg Private First Class 55 Rep 129 Posts Drives: TT RS, NC MX5 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	I think it comes down to intangible things. There is definitely some sorta brand loyalty involved but overall there is still lot of value in luxury brands with their adaptive suspensions, driver adjustable dynamics, sporty exhausts and importantly infotainment systems. I think the advent of Carplay might take away that advantage, but Audi/BMW/MB infotainment systems are leaps and bounds better than any non-luxury brands.
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03-15-2016, 11:11 AM	#9
David70 Colonel 1567 Rep 2,665 Posts Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Cincinnati, OH iTrader: (1)	I ended up with an ATS as a daily driver and an Z4M as a weekend car because I wanted the driving dynamics of a RWD car that has a relatively low weight and handles well. If a non luxury brand car can match this I am willing to look. I would be interested in a 4 door Mustang or Camaro (Chevrolet SS has horrible gas mileage and not crazy about the look). __________________ 2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete
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03-15-2016, 11:37 AM	#10
Never_Enough Banned 2203 Rep 2,476 Posts Drives: Satan's Chariot 2.0 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: PA iTrader: (6) Garage List 2018 Charger Hellcat [0.00]	A lot of it is badge whore bs. Same materials for the most part. Most people don't care about cars & only want it for A to B. The enthusiast is a very small portion of the market. There are crap cars from every brand
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03-15-2016, 11:42 AM	#12
Em135eye Banned 175 Rep 4,302 Posts Drives: M135i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South West iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW M135i 5 door [0.00]	Don't give two hoots about brand. Just happens that BMW makes the best hot hatch (and the only RWD one), Subaru makes the best proper 4x4 estate and VW makes the only factory built, fully warrantied camper van. Brand slavery is for vacuous idiots.
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03-15-2016, 02:09 PM	#17
Chez Brit Abroad 392 Rep 707 Posts Drives: 2016 Frozen Black M4 Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 BMW M4 [9.50]	I went with option 3: A fully optioned luxury car instead of a supercar __________________ 2016 ///M4 / Frozen Black Metallic / Full Sakhir Orange Leather Instagram @M4TTE_BMW More info and photos here.
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03-15-2016, 02:10 PM	#18
aloksatoor Second Lieutenant 21 Rep 232 Posts Drives: Carrera S PDK Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Walnut Creek, CA iTrader: (0)	Barring the Toyota Land Cruiser I would always go for abase luxury
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03-15-2016, 08:49 PM	#20
PoorLurker Custom User Title 1137 Rep 675 Posts Drives: a bicycle Join Date: May 2015 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	Drive this in base model form - with no options... If you know anything about Porsche you know they are like a nice steakhouse where you order steak... and only get steak.. no vegetables, french fries... just steak.. the rest are sides. Now drive this fully optioned clicking til your heart desires. Then come back and ask the question.
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03-15-2016, 08:50 PM	#21
PoorLurker Custom User Title 1137 Rep 675 Posts Drives: a bicycle Join Date: May 2015 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	I put a lot of emphasis on what looks good. The car can be near the holy grail in terms of being an affordable driver's car (see Lotus Exige) but I wouldn't own one because it's not pretty to me. Also, there are cars that I would feel weird driving as they don't "fit me". Just like I admire many different types of clothing styles, however, I wouldn't wear them because they don't "fit me".
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03-16-2016, 02:16 AM	#22
Em135eye Banned 175 Rep 4,302 Posts Drives: M135i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South West iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW M135i 5 door [0.00]	Options are such a rip off though. There's a well known case where a standard engine A6 was optioned up to nearly £80k (base car was half that); the options retained about 10% of their value in three years. We view a few things as fairly important but the only vital thing is a good engine and chassis.
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