The N54 is nothing

san~man · 08-22-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmf75

I'll be the guy to go against the grain. It's an over priced Ford, regardless of how much power it has.

I'll take my slow N54 anyday over that POS. Not a huge domestic car fan here, sorry guys.

My .02

You, sir, are ignorant. How can you call a car with an engine/engine bay/engineering/etc etc designed like this a "POS?"

To say it has "heritage" (4x Le Mans winner) is an understatement. If you can't get past the blue oval to see what's behind it, you're blind.

ENINTY · 08-22-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

No, there's a lot more to it than YOU seem to know.

The control arm issue was caused by using a new forming process in an effort to make the components lighter. The parts being sold were the EXACT same parts on the cars tested, and it was actually first discovered on one of the pre-production cars.

Let's review the recent BMW suspension issues:

E30's - early models could develop cracked front subframes
E36's - could develop cracked rear frames if subjected to track use
E46's - early models could develop cracked rear frames
E46's - early models could have cracked rear springs
Z8's - early models could develop cracked front strut tower frames

But a hand built low production Ford is a POS becuase early models developed cracked rear control arms (all of which were replaced under warranty). When it came out the price was in the $140K range. Like no Italian supercars ever had any problems.

jeremyc74 · 08-22-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENINTY

Let's review the recent BMW suspension issues:

E30's - early models could develop cracked front subframes
E36's - could develop cracked rear frames if subjected to track use
E46's - early models could develop cracked rear frames
E46's - early models could have cracked rear springs
Z8's - early models could develop cracked front strut tower frames

But a hand built low production Ford is a POS becuase early models developed cracked rear control arms (all of which were replaced under warranty). When it came out the price was in the $140K range. Like no Italian supercars ever had any problems.

No shit!

NewSong · 08-22-2009, 11:09 AM

Calling this car a piece of crap is ignoring the racing heritage behind it. No BMW has a racing heritage as decorated as this car, it's that simple.

Guibo · 08-22-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

btw, you do know that there's very little ford involvment in regards to the vehicle's engineering. for instance, lotus designed the chassis.

Do you have anymore information on this? From what I recall, Ford had done the basic chassis design using proprietary automotive CAD software. They had on their development team a New Zealander who had worked on the Lotus Elise to help test the suspension, but that there was no real involvement from Lotus.

Great car, for sure. And a beautiful sight to behold in real life. Evo picked it as their COTY, and they don't pick losers. I would say the racing heritage is a bit tenuous though.

san~man · 08-22-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guibo

Do you have anymore information on this? From what I recall, Ford had done the basic chassis design using proprietary automotive CAD software. They had on their development team a New Zealander who had worked on the Lotus Elise to help test the suspension, but that there was no real involvement from Lotus.

Great car, for sure. And a beautiful sight to behold in real life. Evo picked it as their COTY, and they don't pick losers. I would say the racing heritage is a bit tenuous though.

Elaborate on that please.

ZJP · 08-22-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmf75

I'll take my slow N54 anyday over that POS. Not a huge domestic car fan here, sorry guys.

Neither am I, but to call this car a POS because it's made by Ford is quite ignorant.

It just shows you're a badge whore and not a true enthusiast.

Guibo · 08-22-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by san~man

Elaborate on that please.

The modern Ford GT is not a direct descendent of the racing car (and the road-going GT40's of the time). It's very different in terms of technical specification and purpose of being (street GT40's were built for homologation purposes, the GT was built as a centennial celebration of Ford Motor Company, as well as the 40th anniversary of the original Le Mans win). It has no more racing provenance than James Glickenhaus's P4/5; were Ferrari to build such a car, they would be on very shaky ground to claim a racing heritage for it on the basis of the 330 P4. They would rightfully claim it comes from a company with considerable racing heritage, but then so does a Ferrari 456 GT. Likewise if Porsche claimed a racing heritage for the Carrera GT on the basis of Le Mans cars from the very distant past.
The Ford GT is raced in various guises (usually quite modified and without supercharger) throughout the world, and on the basis of that we can form some opinion about its racing heritage. The same holds true for BMW: I would be very cynical if they touted the E92 M3's "racing heritage" on the success of the E30 M3.

imported_mega · 08-23-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZJP

It just shows you're a badge whore and not a true enthusiast.

+1 say no to badge whores

san~man · 08-23-2009, 01:46 AM

Point taken Guibo.

NewSong · 08-23-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by san~man

Point taken Guibo.

The Ford GT took the cup in the European FIA GT3 in 2008. Guibo failed to mention that. This car has proven racing heritage, and comparing it to the E92 M3 is a pointless comparison considering that car has no major cup wins in any class.

pmeloche · 08-23-2009, 08:42 PM

The N54 is NOT nothing. It's just that you are comparing it to a super car.

Guibo · 08-23-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

The Ford GT took the cup in the European FIA GT3 in 2008. Guibo failed to mention that. This car has proven racing heritage, and comparing it to the E92 M3 is a pointless comparison considering that car has no major cup wins in any class.

NewSong, for someone who claims to ignore my posts, you have a penchant for mis-reading them. Take a look again:
"The Ford GT is raced in various guises (usually quite modified and without supercharger) throughout the world, and on the basis of that we can form some opinion about its racing heritage."

Where did I compare the Ford GT to the E92 M3?? I compared the E92 M3 to the E30 M3, and said BMW should be doubted if they touted the E92 based on the racing success of the E30. Hmmm...E30 M3 vs Ford GT. Which do you think has more racing heritage?

You fail twice. Not quit reading my posts like you said you would.

NewSong · 08-23-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guibo

I would say the racing heritage is a bit tenuous though.

Quote:

The Ford GT took the cup in the European FIA GT3 in 2008. Guibo failed to mention that. This car has proven racing heritage

Guibo =

Guibo · 08-23-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

No BMW has a racing heritage as decorated as this car, it's that simple.

"The Ford GT took the cup in the European FIA GT3 in 2008."

vs

E30 M3:
World Touring Car Championship; 1 title (1987)
European Touring Car Championship; 2 titles (1987 and 1988)
Belgian Rally Championship; 1988
British Touring Car Championship; 2 titles (1988 and 1991)
Italia Superturismo Championship; 4 titles (1987, 1989, 1990 and 1991)
Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft; 2 titles (1987 and 1989)
Australian Touring Car Championship; 1 title (1987)
Guia Race; 5 wins (1987, 1988, 1991, 1992 and 1993)
24 Hours Nürburgring; 4 wins (1989 – 1992)
Spa 24 Hours; 4 wins (1987, 1988, 1990 and 1992)
Tour de Corsa Rally; 2 wins (1987, 1988)
Manx Rally winner (1988)

SongMan =

NewSong · 08-23-2009, 10:37 PM

The E30 and Ford GT don't compete in the same cups:

Guibo =

Guibo · 08-23-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

The E30 and Ford GT don't compete in the same cups:

Guibo =

Who said they have to?

European Touring Car Championship
1975 Siegfried Müller (Ger)-Alain Peltier (Bel) BMW 3.0 Csl
1976 Pierre Dieudonné (Bel)-Jean Xhenceval (Bel) BMW 3.0 Csl
1977 Dieter Quester (Aut) BMW 3.0 Csl
1978 Umberto Grano (Ita) BMW 3.0 Csl
1979 Carlo Facetti (Ita)-Martino Finotto (Ita) BMW 3.0 Csl
Winner @ 24 Hours of Spa: 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976
Winner @ 24 Hours Nurburgring: 1972 (2800CS), 1973
Winner @ 24 Hours of Daytona: 1976

08-22-2009, 11:09 AM	#70
NewSong Just another jerk in a hat... 117 Rep 1,462 Posts Drives: 2005 Ford Focus Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Irvine iTrader: (0)	Calling this car a piece of crap is ignoring the racing heritage behind it. No BMW has a racing heritage as decorated as this car, it's that simple. __________________ He brought me up also out of a horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth.
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08-23-2009, 01:46 AM	#76
san~man Tired 131 Rep 2,673 Posts Drives: BMW-less Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (7)	Point taken Guibo. __________________ BMW-less
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08-23-2009, 08:42 PM	#78
pmeloche Lieutenant Colonel 24 Rep 1,604 Posts Drives: 2013 F25 X3 xDrive35i Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Montréal, Canada iTrader: (0)	The N54 is NOT nothing. It's just that you are comparing it to a super car. __________________ Patrice 2013 F25 X3 xDrive35i Vermillion Red
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08-23-2009, 10:37 PM	#82
NewSong Just another jerk in a hat... 117 Rep 1,462 Posts Drives: 2005 Ford Focus Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Irvine iTrader: (0)	The E30 and Ford GT don't compete in the same cups: Guibo = __________________ He brought me up also out of a horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth.
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