Manager/Recruiter/Resume ??'s

[rebekahb]

I know there are a wide variety of people here who are on many different levels career wise. I'm looking for some feedback/advice. I've been with the same company for 12 years. There have been some recent changes which are leading to instability. I don't have to get out now but think I have 6 more months unless something changes. My last resume update was 2020 & I don't love it. I have been out of the job search for quite some time and know a lot has changed. I have tried to use a few AI resume writers and not very impressed. It's probably me. Are people using AI over professional resume writers these days? Did you use LinkedIn and make recruiter connections through your industry or Indeed? Do you feel like one was a better tool than the other? Is there anything you did specifically or someone suggested that you felt made a difference in your job search?

Last question: for those who have hired for a more senior position. Let's say someone doesn't check all of the boxes experience wise as someone you would hire right off the bat. Have you ever hired someone like this and if so, why? What stood out or what did they do differently in regards to either their resume or interview process that made you want to give them a chance? If you did hire this person, were they able to catch up quick and was it a good hire or a regret?

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes time to share/respond!

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

Are people using AI over professional resume writers these days?

The corporate world is using AI to filter thousands of applications for a single position before a human even gets to read your resume. I used to work with a person who did professional resume writing before AI, and she had a bag of tricks to get past pre-AI electronic screeners and at least get someone's resume read by a person. Don't know how effective those tricks would be against the current AI screening, though.....

[rebekahb]

Appreciate the response. That’s what I’m trying to figure out if a person still writing resumes is worth the spend. I know having your resume ATS optimized is supposed to be helpful. Just a lot of facets that are much different these days.

[2000cs]

I don’t know how widespread AI resume screening is; I suspect at smaller companies it is not as prevalent, and at lower levels also used a lot because of the response volume.

I know a very good senior level resume writer who is also a recruiter. PM me if you want his contact info.

I have hired often for senior level positions and it is rare for a candidate to have all of the desired experience and qualifications. Always tried to get the critical ones (which are attitude, ethics (including work ethic), cultural fit, stuff like that) then skills and other stuff we can teach.

Networking is still important, go to industry events and mingle, even better if you target people to meet or can get seated with them at dinners, etc.

[2000cs]

Also, there are recruiters that specialize in each industry (sometimes multiple) and in each discipline. So find the ones in the industry, level and job categories you’re most interested in, and get to know them. Be prepared to share candidate references with them, back scratching still helps!

[TallGibbs]

Recruiter in your industry and hire a professional resume writer. I did this 24 months ago when switching careers/industries that I worked in. Best $350 I ever spent was paying a professional to go over my resume and completely re-frame it for the new industry I wanted to apply my problem-solving skills in.

[2000cs]

Resume writer: a good one doesn’t just take your resume and jazz it up. Instead, they extensively interview you and build a resume essentially from scratch. In the process, you learn a lot about yourself and start preparing for job interviews.

[rebekahb]

Thank you for the responses. I have connected with a bunch of recruiters in my field on LinkedIn, messaged with a few and spoke with one. I am about a week in but learning so much has changed.

As far as resume writers, does anyone know what an average is? A lady I spoke with last week overhauls your resume, spends 1 hour with you on the phone prior to ask a lot of probing questions and will also customize your LinkedIn as well. It was almost $2k. I just don't know what the current rate is for this profession.

I do need to do some in person events locally just to engage with other professionals so I will look to join some of those soon.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

I know there are a wide variety of people here who are on many different levels career wise. I'm looking for some feedback/advice. I've been with the same company for 12 years. There have been some recent changes which are leading to instability. I don't have to get out now but think I have 6 more months unless something changes. My last resume update was 2020 & I don't love it. I have been out of the job search for quite some time and know a lot has changed. I have tried to use a few AI resume writers and not very impressed. It's probably me. Are people using AI over professional resume writers these days? Did you use LinkedIn and make recruiter connections through your industry or Indeed? Do you feel like one was a better tool than the other? Is there anything you did specifically or someone suggested that you felt made a difference in your job search?

LinkedIn for making connections and sending messages to HR managers in target companies. Do not target recruiters, they are third party agents with no skin in the game for you. They are paid by hiring companies, not by job seekers. Update/re-write your resume based on what you see on LinkedIn for people in jobs that you want.

I have never used a resume writer. One recruiter re-wrote my resume for me and some of those edits survive to this day. That person was unique in doing it for me, and is unlike nearly all other recruiters I have worked with.

The number one thing that makes a difference in job searching: numbers. Apply to large numbers of positions. It's a numbers game.

Originally Posted by rebekahb

Last question: for those who have hired for a more senior position. Let's say someone doesn't check all of the boxes experience wise as someone you would hire right off the bat. Have you ever hired someone like this and if so, why? What stood out or what did they do differently in regards to either their resume or interview process that made you want to give them a chance? If you did hire this person, were they able to catch up quick and was it a good hire or a regret?

No. It makes no sense for a hiring manager to do this. Reading your post, it sounds like you are selling yourself short, in a big way. Apply to any job you think you are qualified for. It's your career. You miss 100% of shots you don't take. Don't negotiate yourself out of a job before you apply.

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by chassis

No. It makes no sense for a hiring manager to do this. Reading your post, it sounds like you are selling yourself short, in a big way. Apply to any job you think you are qualified for. It's your career. You miss 100% of shots you don't take. Don't negotiate yourself out of a job before you apply.

Thank you for your words above! I've spent a few hours tonight working on my resume and trying to get it to where I think it will be attractive. You are right, that was my initial thought and then a few hours later said screw it. If I can be successful in this job I have had for 12 years then I can do this. Unfortunately, the recruiter listed the position so it's not through a manager. I'm going to see if I can get submitted and an interview. I think once you've been stuck and had the golden handcuffs on you want to rip them off. That's where I am now.

[Watching The World Burn]

So I've been trying to hire on Indeed / Linked In for months. I'm just me though - small little office, so I read every single resume / application. Of which, I've probably gotten over one hundred. 98% were garbage.

I love and hate Indeed. It seems like everyone is on there, so I love that I get volume (but sometimes it is too much), but I hate it because they keep pushing new jobs to their base so people are constantly looking to switch instead of coming to me to tell me if they are unhappy. And I try to be a good boss and look out for them, compensate well, etc but they have to communicate to me too.

Recruiters are problematic for me. I don't engage them because then I'm paying somewhere between 17-30% of the candidate's first year wages to the recruiter on top of the candidate's wages. That's a hefty premium, and recruiters provide no guarantee other than say 2-3 months. So I wouldn't pin your hopes on a recruiter - a lot of companies are going to feel the same as I.

You have to go out there and sell yourself, but don't sell yourself short. I bet in the last 12 years you've picked up a ton of skills that you don't even think about - that are second nature, but that are something a new company desperately wants you to mention so they know you can do the job. Think about everything you've done and put it in there. Read job descriptions carefully and tailor you application to it with some key words that you think they are looking for. I go through resumes quickly looking for key things and if they haven't mentioned it, they're gone.

Good luck!

(after months of searching I did finally find someone who I hired btw - she starts in two weeks - so Indeed can be good for you too)

[JMcLellan]

I have used Indeed's resume service recently. As I recall it was pretty cheap (maybe $50 bucks) and someone reviewed my resume, provided some new content, and then recorded nearly a 10 minute video with commentary on suggestions for improvements. I thought that was a really good value.

I have also used Chat GPT to help write resumes customized to specific job descriptions and to try to cater to the reality that you have to "keyword" your content to pass through automated applicant tracking systems.

I have been in the same role for 10 years but I do like to keep things fresh. Overall though, I can't remember the last time I got a job by just blindly applying and submitting my resume somewhere. I honestly don't know if I ever have gotten a job that way? It's always been through knowing someone and having internal references. I've been pretty lucky.

[spazzyfry123]

I just swapped industries - my first day is this upcoming Monday in fact. Excited but understandably anxious. Success is TBD

I did not outsource any resume building nor enlist any job hunters. Like you, I've been doing quite well in a difficult industry - if I can do that, of course I can build my own resume. I've hired and fired who knows how many people, but it's always strange to be on the other side of the table. I spent a full day honing my resume in, nearly a full day creating a presentation, and a full day applying to roles/industries of my interest. Nearly everything I applied to was found on either Zip Recruiter or Indeed. Before I applied through those channels, I would visit the company's website for a deeper dive and also check for the ability to apply direct to avoid any middle channels found through job posting websites.

I'm unsure if it is appropriate in your situation, but I developed a quick PowerPoint to present to the hiring manager once I made it to that stage. Pretty straightforward, but also lean so as to only take up 10-15 minutes. Personal details to kick it off to show I'm a human and offer a soft transition, highlights of my background and experience, key accomplishments, and round off with a roadmap inclusive of my 30-60-90. I went through a total of five stages in the interview process for my upcoming role. I only introduced and presented it to the hiring manager (VP), and sent it to the CEO after interviewing with him to supplement my follow up E-mail thanking them for the opportunity.

[BMWGUYinCO]

Hi Rebekah,

I'll add some of my own insights/tips for you.

1. Depending on the job type/industry you are looking for, you may need more than one version of your resume. Try to tailor your experience and accomplishments to the specific job.
2. Make sure that in your experience, you don't just list job responsibilities...try to add a resulting value to the experience, such as: "Responsible for automating the patient in-take process, resulting in a 50% operating efficiency and 30% less clerical and billing errors".
3. Research the web for resume examples within your industry and tailor yours to match both the visual/style appeal and content you like. Ensure you have both a Word and PDF version available.
4. Carefully review job postings for key words in their requirements and make sure your resume includes lots of those.
5. Be very careful of job listings - ONLY apply on the employer's actual site. Why? Because there is a growing list of "recruiters" listing fake jobs for the sole purpose of harvesting resumes in order to build their own talent database so that they can then sell their services to actual companies looking to hire.
6. It's difficult today to get noticed through blind applications - simply because companies receive hundreds of applications. Instead, try to research the hiring company for known connections through LinkedIn in order to get someone on the inside to recommend you to the hiring manager. It's still possible to simply submit but it's also a lot harder.
7. You should also invest the time to construct a really good cover letter. It should not only express your interest in the job, but why, as well as maybe have one or two relevant examples of prior successes that show competency for what they are looking for.
8. Practice answering interview questions in advance (examples):
a. Tell me about yourself
b. What are your best strengths?
c. Tell me about a difficult team member or project you had to deal with - how did you overcome these challenges?
d. Tell me about a project you are most proud of, and why?
etc.
9. Prepare yourself for rejection...it's a process to go through submitting your resume, get selected for HR screening, then an interview with the hiring manager only to hear either nothing, or a rejection email.
10. If you can be choosy, try to find companies that are favorably rated by employees (GlassDoor provides these ratings) and that excite you. Life is short - don't just get a job to survive - you want to thrive!

Good luck and let us know how it goes...if I think of anything else I'll let you know.

Rob

PS - to answer this question specifically: "Last question: for those who have hired for a more senior position. Let's say someone doesn't check all of the boxes experience wise as someone you would hire right off the bat. Have you ever hired someone like this and if so, why?" Yes I have and the one thing I always look for in applicants is aptitude. They may not check all the boxes, but if they can give me examples of how they have solved problems in a clever manner, I will prefer that over someone who has a PHD, Masters, and two B.S. degrees any day.

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

So I've been trying to hire on Indeed / Linked In for months. I'm just me though - small little office, so I read every single resume / application. Of which, I've probably gotten over one hundred. 98% were garbage.

I love and hate Indeed. It seems like everyone is on there, so I love that I get volume (but sometimes it is too much), but I hate it because they keep pushing new jobs to their base so people are constantly looking to switch instead of coming to me to tell me if they are unhappy. And I try to be a good boss and look out for them, compensate well, etc but they have to communicate to me too.

Recruiters are problematic for me. I don't engage them because then I'm paying somewhere between 17-30% of the candidate's first year wages to the recruiter on top of the candidate's wages. That's a hefty premium, and recruiters provide no guarantee other than say 2-3 months. So I wouldn't pin your hopes on a recruiter - a lot of companies are going to feel the same as I.

You have to go out there and sell yourself, but don't sell yourself short. I bet in the last 12 years you've picked up a ton of skills that you don't even think about - that are second nature, but that are something a new company desperately wants you to mention so they know you can do the job. Think about everything you've done and put it in there. Read job descriptions carefully and tailor you application to it with some key words that you think they are looking for. I go through resumes quickly looking for key things and if they haven't mentioned it, they're gone.

Good luck!

(after months of searching I did finally find someone who I hired btw - she starts in two weeks - so Indeed can be good for you too)

That's interesting in regards to Indeed. I saw a poll somewhere the other day about what is the new timeline spent at jobs and it was 1-3 years and 5-7 years being the 2 main options. The majority was 1-3 years which lines up if you are seeing people wanting to constantly switch. I guess tenure has gone by the wayside these days. Hell, I just want another good 7-10 years and if I don't have to job hop I will be fine with that. You know what's interesting? People will blast all kinds of shit on the internet but when it comes to speaking to someone to their face about problems or how you can maybe create a helpful resolution it's like crickets. I guess they think it's easiest to just leave and run to the next best thing. That has to get exhausting at some point I would think.

I appreciate the insight on the skills over the past 12 years. I drive a good bit so when something pops in to my head I have been telling my phone to add it to notes so I can remember later. Great idea for me to dig a little deeper at skills.

Congrats on the new hire! I hope she works out and is a good fit.

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I just swapped industries - my first day is this upcoming Monday in fact. Excited but understandably anxious. Success is TBD

I did not outsource any resume building nor enlist any job hunters. Like you, I've been doing quite well in a difficult industry - if I can do that, of course I can build my own resume. I've hired and fired who knows how many people, but it's always strange to be on the other side of the table. I spent a full day honing my resume in, nearly a full day creating a presentation, and a full day applying to roles/industries of my interest. Nearly everything I applied to was found on either Zip Recruiter or Indeed. Before I applied through those channels, I would visit the company's website for a deeper dive and also check for the ability to apply direct to avoid any middle channels found through job posting websites.

I'm unsure if it is appropriate in your situation, but I developed a quick PowerPoint to present to the hiring manager once I made it to that stage. Pretty straightforward, but also lean so as to only take up 10-15 minutes. Personal details to kick it off to show I'm a human and offer a soft transition, highlights of my background and experience, key accomplishments, and round off with a roadmap inclusive of my 30-60-90. I went through a total of five stages in the interview process for my upcoming role. I only introduced and presented it to the hiring manager (VP), and sent it to the CEO after interviewing with him to supplement my follow up E-mail thanking them for the opportunity.

Congrats on the new job and wishing you all the success!!

Please let me know how the industry swap goes. I'm curious because I was speaking with someone the other day in the industry and she was talking about how a lot of people come back after 9-12 months. I have contemplated switching industries but have zero clue what would interest me. I'm still in the beginning stages so we shall see.

I started working on my resume and cover letter yesterday and today to try to get something in for this job I want to apply for. I'm not sure if the powerpoint idea would be good for this job but it's definitely something to think about. It's a good way to stand out and show you've invested thought and time into the position you are going for.

I appreciate the ideas!

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

Hi Rebekah,

I'll add some of my own insights/tips for you.

1. Depending on the job type/industry you are looking for, you may need more than one version of your resume. Try to tailor your experience and accomplishments to the specific job.
2. Make sure that in your experience, you don't just list job responsibilities...try to add a resulting value to the experience, such as: "Responsible for automating the patient in-take process, resulting in a 50% operating efficiency and 30% less clerical and billing errors".
3. Research the web for resume examples within your industry and tailor yours to match both the visual/style appeal and content you like. Ensure you have both a Word and PDF version available.
4. Carefully review job postings for key words in their requirements and make sure your resume includes lots of those.
5. Be very careful of job listings - ONLY apply on the employer's actual site. Why? Because there is a growing list of "recruiters" listing fake jobs for the sole purpose of harvesting resumes in order to build their own talent database so that they can then sell their services to actual companies looking to hire.
6. It's difficult today to get noticed through blind applications - simply because companies receive hundreds of applications. Instead, try to research the hiring company for known connections through LinkedIn in order to get someone on the inside to recommend you to the hiring manager. It's still possible to simply submit but it's also a lot harder.
7. You should also invest the time to construct a really good cover letter. It should not only express your interest in the job, but why, as well as maybe have one or two relevant examples of prior successes that show competency for what they are looking for.
8. Practice answering interview questions in advance (examples):
a. Tell me about yourself
b. What are your best strengths?
c. Tell me about a difficult team member or project you had to deal with - how did you overcome these challenges?
d. Tell me about a project you are most proud of, and why?
etc.
9. Prepare yourself for rejection...it's a process to go through submitting your resume, get selected for HR screening, then an interview with the hiring manager only to hear either nothing, or a rejection email.
10. If you can be choosy, try to find companies that are favorably rated by employees (GlassDoor provides these ratings) and that excite you. Life is short - don't just get a job to survive - you want to thrive!

Good luck and let us know how it goes...if I think of anything else I'll let you know.

Rob

PS - to answer this question specifically: "Last question: for those who have hired for a more senior position. Let's say someone doesn't check all of the boxes experience wise as someone you would hire right off the bat. Have you ever hired someone like this and if so, why?" Yes I have and the one thing I always look for in applicants is aptitude. They may not check all the boxes, but if they can give me examples of how they have solved problems in a clever manner, I will prefer that over someone who has a PHD, Masters, and two B.S. degrees any day.

Hi Rob,

THANK YOU!!! I truly appreciate the time you took to write everything out. My resume does list percentages and numbers so I have that box checked off. I'm working now on key words and honing things in to this specific role.

It's a recruiter who listed this job and does not give any specific information on to who the company is. I am trying to google and see if I can figure that out to work to make some connections on the back end.
He just wrote an article about people posting jobs that aren't really available so I hope he wouldn't write that and do differently. I will take the advice moving forward of looking at more company websites and going that route. It seems to be a common theme from several people.

I'm actually working on a cover letter now because I will be an outlier applying for this position and I don't feel my resume would be the solo winning ticket for an interview.

Luckily, I think I have about 6 more months so I have time to be choosy. As far as interviewing, I'm a lot more confident but not cocky than I was years ago. I know what I am looking for in a company and I don't want to take a job just because. Culture and autonomy are extremely important to me. I had a manger ghost me after an interview and truly it speaks to a persons character not to even respond to a candidate who did an interview on the whim while on vacation. Also, I work with his regional directors son.

Thank you for that last part! I believe I have a unique perspective on the roles of this new position. I may not have been the one implementing them but understand the repercussions from poor implementation. I'm in a niche market in my industry and if you don't learn how to pivot and be creative quick you're dead in the water. I didn't have a manger hovering over me telling me how to fix things. I got out there and tried it until I saw what worked and grew business from there.

[TallGibbs]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

Thank you for the responses. I have connected with a bunch of recruiters in my field on LinkedIn, messaged with a few and spoke with one. I am about a week in but learning so much has changed.

As far as resume writers, does anyone know what an average is? A lady I spoke with last week overhauls your resume, spends 1 hour with you on the phone prior to ask a lot of probing questions and will also customize your LinkedIn as well. It was almost $2k. I just don't know what the current rate is for this profession.

I do need to do some in person events locally just to engage with other professionals so I will look to join some of those soon.

I paid $350 for the exact same thing (1 hour phone call, new resume and updated LinkedIn profile). That was about 2 years ago when I paid that.

[Alfisti]

I think you're in for a shock at what an utter fucking nightmare applying for a job is these days. They ask you to upload your resume then you go into their system, AND RE_TYPE THE ENTIRE FUCKING THING section by section. It is hours of work, super annoying and still at the mercy of keyword AI bots searches.

It's almost all a total waste of time and you're better off networking and sliding into a new role via connections.

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I think you're in for a shock at what an utter fucking nightmare applying for a job is these days. They ask you to upload your resume then you go into their system, AND RE_TYPE THE ENTIRE FUCKING THING section by section. It is hours of work, super annoying and still at the mercy of keyword AI bots searches.

It's almost all a total waste of time and you're better off networking and sliding into a new role via connections.

I can always count on you to hand it out honestly I have already had to do that once and thought this is a waste of time. Why? I honestly just put shit in there because I knew submitting something like that would not get me far. Luckily, I don't need something yesterday so have received a lot of great advice and working all angles.

It's weird looking for a job after 12 years.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

It's weird looking for a job after 12 years.

It is. I started looking 5 years ago after 15 years with the same company, spent 2 years being pretty selective what I applied for etc and TBH I found the whole thing a massive shit show. In the end i changed roles within the same company so I am still with them but if i was say let go (I'd get about 18 months severance) I would not relax and take a breather because it may well take 18 months to find something.

[JeffL0]

.