The official "Ask a cop/deputy anything!" thread

[Sedan_Clan]

So I want to change direction a bit and add a different element to this thread. It has now become the "Ask a……AND Law Enforcement Scenario" thread. The scenarios will be critical thinking exercises for those with no law enforcement experience. I'm looking for step-by-step breakdowns and for the purpose of the exercises we'll assume you have all of the resources available (…SWAT, K9, Aero, Bomb Squad, etc……although in the real world that is not always the case). My purpose in each scenario will be to add complexity that will force you to make a difficult decision that you'll have to stand tall for. Sometimes it might be a shoot/don't shoot scenario and other times it could be some other impactful decision.

Critical thinking exercise #1:

You're a state Trooper and you obs a vehicle on the side of the road. It looks like the occupants of the vehicle are in distress. You make contact and you become aware that one of the occupants is mentally challenged and emotional. His movements potentially place him in danger of injuring himself or someone else. What would YOU do?!?!

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

From our region.....

https://www.insider.com/man-burst-in...ue-him-2021-11

I guess that wasn't too bright of him to douse himself and hand sanitizer…

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So I want to change direction a bit and add a different element to this thread. It has now become the "Ask a……AND Law Enforcement Scenario" thread. The scenarios will be critical thinking exercises for those with no law enforcement experience. I'm looking for step-by-step breakdowns and for the purpose of the exercises we'll assume you have all of the resources available (…SWAT, K9, Aero, Bomb Squad, etc……although in the real world that is not always the case). My purpose in each scenario will be to add complexity that will force you to make a difficult decision that you'll have to stand tall for. Sometimes it might be a shoot/don't shoot scenario and other times it could be some other impactful decision.

Critical thinking exercise #1:

You're a state Trooper and you obs a vehicle on the side of the road. It looks like the occupants of the vehicle are in distress. You make contact and you become aware that one of the occupants is mentally challenged and emotional. His movements potentially place him in danger of injuring himself or someone else. What would YOU do?!?!

Call a social worker?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

Call a social worker?

Nope! You're the LEO. Deal with it.

Social workers don't respond in the field and certainly won't be anywhere that isn't Code 4 (…like the side of the road with a person who isn't detained).

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Critical thinking exercise #1:

You're a state Trooper and you obs a vehicle on the side of the road. It looks like the occupants of the vehicle are in distress. You make contact and you become aware that one of the occupants is mentally challenged and emotional. His movements potentially place him in danger of injuring himself or someone else. What would YOU do?!?!

Sounds like a hostage situation to me. Run the plate to ensure that it isn't a media trap, then call for SWAT and let them take over the scene with a trained negotiator.....

[upstatedoc]

Taser Taser Taser!

But seriously sedan you have the advantage you were instructed on what you can and can't do at the roadside. I have no idea

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Sounds like a hostage situation to me. Run the plate to ensure that it isn't a media trap, then call for SWAT and let them take over the scene with a trained negotiator.....

You confirm that it's just a mentally challenged person. What's your next course of action?

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

Taser Taser Taser!

But seriously sedan you have the advantage you were instructed on what you can and can't do at the roadside. I have no idea

A taser is a great option. That would bring the situation to a conclusion.

If the person had a confirmed heart condition and you were made aware, how would that change your course of action?


P.S. I fully acknowledge that you and/or other non-law enforcement personnel don't have the training. I just want to stimulate thought and I'm curious about the reasoning of the untrained. Many people love to quarterback the actions of police, so it's a great exercise to place yourself in the same position(s). Plus, it's fun for me to help educate. You never know, it might help you one day.

[vreihen16]

Pepper spray if required, tie them to a gurney, and ship them off by ambulance to the hospital ER until they can be seen by a psychologist.

I highly doubt that most police officers have the medical credentials to determine if someone's mental state is clinically wrong. Plus, are we even allowed to call someone mentally challenged in the PC world of 2021?????

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So I want to change direction a bit and add a different element to this thread. It has now become the "Ask a……AND Law Enforcement Scenario" thread. The scenarios will be critical thinking exercises for those with no law enforcement experience. I'm looking for step-by-step breakdowns and for the purpose of the exercises we'll assume you have all of the resources available (…SWAT, K9, Aero, Bomb Squad, etc……although in the real world that is not always the case). My purpose in each scenario will be to add complexity that will force you to make a difficult decision that you'll have to stand tall for. Sometimes it might be a shoot/don't shoot scenario and other times it could be some other impactful decision.

Critical thinking exercise #1:

You're a state Trooper and you obs a vehicle on the side of the road. It looks like the occupants of the vehicle are in distress. You make contact and you become aware that one of the occupants is mentally challenged and emotional. His movements potentially place him in danger of injuring himself or someone else. What would YOU do?!?!

Who is/are the other occupants? Seems to me that he/they (you never said how many occupants) have the responsibility to deal with the problem child. Let them handle it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Who is/are the other occupants? Seems to me that he/they (you never said how many occupants) have the responsibility to deal with the problem child. Let them handle it.

The occupant is the father. You're on scene and you recognize there's a safety issue because of passing traffic (..and the father already articulated that his son has mental issues and jumped out of the car on the side of the road). There's potential liability for the department because you have been made aware, so you can't simply walk away without it coming back to bite you should something happen on the side of the road. Everything is being recorded on your body camera and vehicle GPS places you on scene (…as does the radio traffic you communicated over the air).

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Pepper spray if required, tie them to a gurney, and ship them off by ambulance to the hospital ER until they can be seen by a psychologist.

I highly doubt that most police officers have the medical credentials to determine if someone's mental state is clinically wrong. Plus, are we even allowed to call someone mentally challenged in the PC world of 2021?????

Law enforcement aren't making clinical assessments like a doctor would, but based on 5150 WIC we make determinations based on the criteria of the code. An officer [in California] also receives mental health training in the course of becoming an officer (…and continuing training/education after having become sworn).

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Law enforcement aren't making clinical assessments like a doctor would, but based on 5150 WIC we make determinations based on the criteria of the code. An officer [in California] also receives mental health training in the course of becoming an officer (…and continuing training/education after having become sworn).

I've dealt with psychiatrists who after 3 weeks of seeing a detained patient couldn't make a diagnosis. Perhaps you guys in Cali use different terminology then we do in Canuckistan, but to me "mentally challenged" would be a clue.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

I've dealt with psychiatrists who after 3 weeks of seeing a detained patient couldn't make a diagnosis. Perhaps you guys in Cali us different terminology then we do in Canuckistan, but to me "mentally challenged" would be a clue.

Our 5150 WIC laws require us to establish that a person is either a danger to themselves, a danger to others and/or gravely disabled. We establish that criteria based on statements made by the suspect/subject, witnesses on scene, the victim(s), etc. We can establish the gravely disabled requirement with a few key questions. If the suspect voluntarily disclosed they want help, we write the 72-hour hold and transport them to a mental facility. If the suspect is taken involuntarily, either the fire department or our MET team will transport; if it's the fire department, we will roll Code 3 behind them. We will write the 72-hour hold once we arrive at the facility.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Our 5150 WIC laws require us to establish that a person is either a danger to themselves, a danger to others and/or gravely disabled. We establish that criteria based on statements made by the suspect/subject, witnesses on scene, the victim(s), etc. We can establish the gravely disabled requirement with a few key questions.

Yup, we call them EDP, Emotionally Disturbed Person. Challenged would be someone who has a disability. But danger to themselves or others is the thing that you need to determine. We use the same thresholds for dealing with the HBD types as well.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

An officer [in California] also receives mental health training in the course of becoming an officer (…and continuing training/education after having become sworn).

Here in NY State, there's a new law where all police officer candidates must themselves undergo psychological examinations with a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist before being sworn:

https://midhudsonnews.com/2021/11/08...n-with-shrink/

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Here in NY State, there's a new law where all police officer candidates must themselves undergo psychological examinations with a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist before being sworn:

https://midhudsonnews.com/2021/11/08...n-with-shrink/

It has been that way in California for a really, really long time. I'm surprised NY is just now adding that to the hiring process.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Here in NY State, there's a new law where all police officer candidates must themselves undergo psychological examinations with a licensed psychiatrist or psychologist before being sworn:

https://midhudsonnews.com/2021/11/08...n-with-shrink/

Yup, here in Canada since before I got hired in 1985. You had to write these 2 bizarre 800+ question questionaires and then if you got past that you had to be interviewed by a psychologist for as I recall a few hours.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Yup, here in Canada since before I got hired in 1985. You had to write these 2 bizarre 800+ question questionaires and then if you got past that you had to be interviewed by a psychologist for as I recall a few hours.

Was it the MMPI2? That's what we take here in California.

[vreihen16]

So, what are we doing with the person on the side of the road who has been determined to be a danger to themselves?????

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

So, what are we doing with the person on the side of the road who has been determined to be a danger to themselves?????

For the most part, everybody who took action and then transported the subject did the right thing.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Was it the MMPI2? That's what we take here in California.

I think so, it was a long time ago....lots of questions about your mother and stuff like that.

[UncleWede]

Turn off sirens

Ask the father to try and bring the son off to the non-traffic side of the car. Ask father if flashing lights are an issue for the son.

If the son continues to display lack of self-control, and/or shows potential for running away from father (has dad grabbed a hold of a hand or arm already?) then call for backup to block traffic lane immediately adjacent to the vehicle.

Check my cruiser trunk to see if I have a teddy bear or similar comfort device available. Slowly approach father/son with comfort device clearly visible, speaking in low voice offering to son.

If receptive, ask son if he'd like to look inside the cruiser, maybe play with the lights and sirens. This gets him out of traffic lanes potentially.