Tesla Models S/X vs. high end BMW models

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Where are you located? I didn't see any really in the southeast. Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, or North Carolina. And I do go regularly to Miami, West Palm, Boca Raton, Naples. Dint see them there either. Plenty of exotics and British monsters. I'm guessing west coast. Only place money and misguided save the world from bs global warming collide.

I've only seen one of the "eggs", but tons of Land Rovers/Range Rovers, Jags, MB's off all stripes. As far as the S goes, I've only seen a few, I think there might be one in town and a few tourists that come from the city. Most of the folks here drive MB, Jag, Volvo's, Porsche and a few Ferrari's.

The Ontario government gives a $14K subsidy to promote the sales of EV's and so far sales here are really slow, I think the government has bought the most for fleet vehicles, and most are actually hybrids because Ontario is so big that the pure EV's are really only practical for city use.

I get change is coming but I don't think it's going to get here as soon as the environmentalists think.

I don't ever see myself buying one thanks, I love my diesel MB, I get almost 1000km (600+ miles) to a fill up and it cost me $20 less than my old volvo wagon for the same amount of gas.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

I've only seen one of the "eggs", but tons of Land Rovers/Range Rovers, Jags, MB's off all stripes. As far as the S goes, I've only seen a few, I think there might be one in town and a few tourists that come from the city. Most of the folks here drive MB, Jag, Volvo's, Porsche and a few Ferrari's.

The Ontario government gives a $14K subsidy to promote the sales of EV's and so far sales here are really slow, I think the government has bought the most for fleet vehicles, and most are actually hybrids because Ontario is so big that the pure EV's are really only practical for city use.

I get change is coming but I don't think it's going to get here as soon as the environmentalists think.

I don't ever see myself buying one thanks, I love my diesel MB, I get almost 1000km (600+ miles) to a fill up and it cost me $20 less than my old volvo wagon for the same amount of gas.

I don't see the "change" even. Liberal governments were pushing this. But it's mostly a wealth redistribution plan to take US money and spread it around. That's why the governments are promoting it. The Paris agreement was going to cost us $3 trillion, and reduce global temps by 0..5% over 100 years. Not good math. Without government intervention, EVs would be DOA.

[Red Bread]

Torque. Americans love torque. So these things sell. Americans don?t drive places, especially rich ones. Stop acting like your screwball habits apply to more than 0.01% of people plunking down six figures on cars.

I see more Teslas than equivalent German sedans and trucks here in Dallas, in a state with no Tesla sales office. I also see more AMG versions of most of the MBs, because torque.

[insanecoder]

Given a 100 grand
I would choose to spend it on a BMW/Porsche over Tesla any day

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Torque. Americans love torque. So these things sell. Americans don?t drive places, especially rich ones. Stop acting like your screwball habits apply to more than 0.01% of people plunking down six figures on cars.

I see more Teslas than equivalent German sedans and trucks here in Dallas, in a state with no Tesla sales office. I also see more AMG versions of most of the MBs, because torque.

I think for most people, range anxiety is a big issue. Also, lots of people who are in the middle class or lower income tend to buy used cars and hold onto cars longer so even if the range anxiety gets addressed in a real fashion I don't see the change over happening in the next decade.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

I think for most people, range anxiety is a big issue. Also, lots of people who are in the middle class or lower income tend to buy used cars and hold onto cars longer so even if the range anxiety gets addressed in a real fashion I don't see the change over happening in the next decade.

I?ve said this before, but my wife hasn?t driven more than 60 consecutive miles in probably five years. We take my car for long trips when we drive.

But the more important thing is that most folks with six figure cars aren?t operating two cars. Teslas are primarily city cars. And I?d bet less than 1% of commuters are driving more than 150 miles each way. So where?s the range anxiety?

If you?re a traveling salesman, an apartment dweller or live 85 miles from a big city, these aren?t for you. Otherwise, I have yet to see a compelling argument for why they don?t.

We drive to Austin a handful of times a year, where the hotels we stay at have charging. So that?s within range with little or no anxiety. We drive to Santa Fe once or twice a year, and not really practical in a Tesla, so we?d take my car. We also drive to Tulsa a few times a year and tend to park the car at my in laws while there. So even on 110v, we?d be ready to get home with no issues.

Now if you want to argue that the X is painfully ugly or the S looks boring and the 3 looks goofy, that?s all on the table.

Sorry about the goofball iOS 11 apostrophes.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

I think for most people, range anxiety is a big issue. Also, lots of people who are in the middle class or lower income tend to buy used cars and hold onto cars longer so even if the range anxiety gets addressed in a real fashion I don't see the change over happening in the next decade.

It will take longer the further down the economic ladder you go and the further you go from urban centers but it's a threat in every segment BMW competes including the 3 series. BMW is mainly a city well to do brand.

[hellrotm]

Let’s see where Tesla sales go when the big guys start encroaching on their niche market. Porsche Mission E will be the first blow to the Tesla S. I think Elon was smart working to transition his company to an energy company, rather than solely an automobile manufacturer.

[Red Bread]

Leafs, i3s and Bolts are already cheap as dirt on the used market and one of them even has decent range. I see an amazing number of Leafs (Leaves?) on the road daily. And I think those have an 80 mike range ideally, much less in TX heat with the AC going all the time.

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Leafs, i3s and Bolts are already cheap as dirt on the used market and one of them even has decent range. I see an amazing number of Leafs (Leaves?) on the road daily. And I think those have an 80 mike range ideally, much less in TX heat with the AC going all the time.

Or in Canada, long drives unless you're in an urban centre, cold weather with heat and defrost on all the time, except when we have hot humid summers when the AC is on all the time. My trips are mostly short now that I'm retired, but when I take a longer drive an EV won't fit the bill for me.

I could be wrong and you might be wrong and I guess time will show who was right. I seriously don't see EV's being more than 50% of all vehicles on the road for more than a decade or maybe two.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

Or in Canada, long drives unless you're in an urban centre, cold weather with heat and defrost on all the time, except when we have hot humid summers when the AC is on all the time. My trips are mostly short now that I'm retired, but when I take a longer drive an EV won't fit the bill for me.

I could be wrong and you might be wrong and I guess time will show who was right. I seriously don't see EV's being more than 50% of all vehicles on the road for more than a decade or maybe two.

Oh, I?m not arguing that they?ll displace ICE cars. Just like diesel never did, even thought it had tons of torque and bladder killing range.

I do think we’re cursed into all ICE (or nearly all) having some form of hybrid feature in the next decade or so.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Let’s see where Tesla sales go when the big guys start encroaching on their niche market. Porsche Mission E will be the first blow to the Tesla S. I think Elon was smart working to transition his company to an energy company, rather than solely an automobile manufacturer.

I absolutely agree, once the traditional luxury car makers have competitive models and charging stations deployed they should regain control. But when the question is if the fossil fuel powered 3 series including hybrids is under threat of Model 3 I think the answer is a big yes. The upper luxury sedan buyers have showned that they prefer Model S and to ignore that when it comes to the starting luxury sedans make little sense IMO.

I think it will come down to if Tesla can deliver on announced price and keep up with demand but we'll see.

[Fundguy1]

Still speculation that a car with many serious flaws and that doesn't have the one redeeming feature of EVs, torque, will be any kind of long term threat. The 3s still aren't even being produced. And everyone is saying ice is dead.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Leafs, i3s and Bolts are already cheap as dirt on the used market and one of them even has decent range. I see an amazing number of Leafs (Leaves?) on the road daily. And I think those have an 80 mike range ideally, much less in TX heat with the AC going all the time.

What city in Texas Redbread? Ausitn? Leafs are also super rare. I see more exotics than leafs. There's a reason they're super cheap and i3s too. Nobody wants them. When first time buyers do their trade ins and see they lost 70% in 3 years, see how many buy another. I saw one ev today. A tesla s. This was after driving 2 hours on a crowded highway and then all over a well to do beach community. If there isn't the greenie fever, people skip them.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

What city in Texas Redbread? Ausitn? Leafs are also super rare. I see more exotics than leafs. There's a reason they're super cheap and i3s too. Nobody wants them. When first time buyers do their trade ins and see they lost 70% in 3 years, see how many buy another. I saw one ev today. A tesla s. This was after driving 2 hours on a crowded highway and then all over a well to do beach community. If there isn't the greenie fever, people skip them.

Dallas. Downtown, Richardson, Park Cities. I see probably a dozen Model S?s on an average commute, maybe three or four awful Model X?s and two or three Leafs. i3?s are hit or miss. Seems like I see them in packs, but I?d guess I see three or four a week.

It is amusing that you equate them with greenies as when I lived in Orange County, I actually saw more in Newport than Laguna.

[Fundguy1]

Well I'm driving back now. Still don't see any. Your average commute must be the same as my average year. Still just the one, and I'm on busy roads and scanning parking lots too. Saw a Nissan note lol

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Well I'm driving back now. Still don't see any. Your average commute must be the same as my average year. Still just the one, and I'm on busy roads Nd scanning parking lots too.

I drive about twenty miles each way, effectively from Presby to Las Colinas.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I drive about twenty miles each way, effectively from Presby to Las Colinas.

Well I'm guessing there's pockets of these things. I travel 50k for work a year, add on 15k more for non work driving. Work driving is the entire southern half of Florida. Basically see one ev a week. Any more than 2 is a surprise. And same applies driving to GA, SC, and NC.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by solstice

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...ry-sedan-sales

Just to keep this thread interesting, here's another point of view worth considering. The Tesla S competes with the 5er and the e-class in terms of price and size according to this guy. Just another example of the social media reality that nobody can agree on anything

https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/...america-258097

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Just to keep this thread interesting, here's another point of view worth considering. The Tesla S competes with the 5er and the e-class in terms of price and size according to this guy. Just another example of the social media reality that nobody can agree on anything

https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/...america-258097

Exactly what I posted on the page before. But tesla wants the image, the media wants to push EV, so they do the bs comparison to full size luxury while it's a midsize. It's not a case of agreeing or disagreeing. It's a case of fact or fiction. Car sizes and prices are measurable quantifiable facts. As usual the left wants to believe the fiction because it pushes their narrative.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Well I'm guessing there's pockets of these things. I travel 50k for work a year, add on 15k more for non work driving. Work driving is the entire southern half of Florida. Basically see one ev a week. Any more than 2 is a surprise. And same applies driving to GA, SC, and NC.

How much of that is in heavily populated areas? I remember a guy brought an L88 Stingray to a car show and it had a 4 gallon tank with a range of about 60 miles if you were lucky. I doubt you see a lot of those in rural Nebraska.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

How much of that is in heavily populated areas? I remember a guy brought an L88 Stingray to a car show and it had a 4 gallon tank with a range of about 60 miles if you were lucky. I doubt you see a lot of those in rural Nebraska.

Hmmm, Orlando, Miami, Melbourne, West Palm, Boca, ft Lauderdale, Naples, etc. All of it. 21 million people in Florida, majority in this area. I visit financial advisor branches, unerringly located in the middle of high income high density population centers. I actually saw a bmw 507 driving around, and 2 tesla x this year. Hmmm