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      04-25-2019, 11:25 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Beta? Pffftt. He's got one of those giant wooden forks, like my grandma had on her kitchen wall, in his back.

In other, not so welcome to Joe lol, news.
Avenatti just 'endorsed' Joe.
Camp Joe is spitting out their coffee.
Will David Duke endorse Trump....again?
Donald Trump and David Duke: For the record - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../d...or-the-record/
Mar 1, 2016 - Here is a full chronology of Donald Trump's statements on white supremacist David Duke. Unlike most other top Republican officials, Trump ...
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      04-25-2019, 11:37 AM   #24
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His VP pick, should he win the nom will be crucial. Harris? Warren? Surely it will be a woman...
Biden/Harris would work for Wall Street.

So in other words trouble for Trump...
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      04-25-2019, 11:58 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
And you are probably right. Certainly you are much closer to what people actually feel - I only have the admittedly very limited sources available to me. None of which are as good as first hand.

Though the forums are interesting aren't they? Because while I do believe the media is biased, the forums...well, they are just people feeling rather anonymous and therefore, they tend to type their true feelings here wouldn't you agree? At least politically. They aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot with other deep dark secrets...but politically, I think they are as close to first hand, and realistically basically are first hand as you or I can get - and cutting across a wide section of the country, not limited geographically to your city / surrounding area.

Arguably a good representation. Of course, you could make arguments that perhaps the type of person who is attracted to a BMW forum tends to vote a certain way, but we can still see lines drawn here.
While I appreciate your analytics and what you say can certainly be justified, I respectfully disagree - folks who post in the OT forums here are those who actually care enough about politics to make time out of their day to comment in a forum dedicated to cars typically afforded to those of a certain economic status. That is an extremely small subset of the population.

Nearly every single person I know, and I mean to the point of 99.9%, doesn't care enough about politics to have any type of discussion about it. They will maybe mention something political in passing once or twice a year at most. Of these, perhaps 30-40% will vote during the election and they will vote mostly along party lines like they've always voted or perhaps will google the candidates the day before the election or look them up on CNN or FOX online.

This represents most of the American people. So long as someone isn't too radical, they don't really care.

Overall, America will lean ever so slightly left in a general election, but will jump to the right if the left party candidate strays too far from the middle. The only exception to this is when certain candidates generate above normal turnout for certain subsets of the population. This happened when Obama ran - a much larger than normal turnout occurred in the African American communities which dramatically increased his vote totals. It happened again during 2016 for Trump. A much larger turnout than expected happened, mostly in the midwest and rustbelt areas, of primarily blue collar workers who bought into what Trump was selling and had a downright hatred of Hillary. This caused his spike in those areas, particularly in those that typically trend blue and caused him to win the election.
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      04-25-2019, 12:17 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
While I appreciate your analytics and what you say can certainly be justified, I respectfully disagree - folks who post in the OT forums here are those who actually care enough about politics to make time out of their day to comment in a forum dedicated to cars typically afforded to those of a certain economic status. That is an extremely small subset of the population.

Nearly every single person I know, and I mean to the point of 99.9%, doesn't care enough about politics to have any type of discussion about it. They will maybe mention something political in passing once or twice a year at most. Of these, perhaps 30-40% will vote during the election and they will vote mostly along party lines like they've always voted or perhaps will google the candidates the day before the election or look them up on CNN or FOX online.

This represents most of the American people. So long as someone isn't too radical, they don't really care.

Overall, America will lean ever so slightly left in a general election, but will jump to the right if the left party candidate strays too far from the middle. The only exception to this is when certain candidates generate above normal turnout for certain subsets of the population. This happened when Obama ran - a much larger than normal turnout occurred in the African American communities which dramatically increased his vote totals. It happened again during 2016 for Trump. A much larger turnout than expected happened, mostly in the midwest and rustbelt areas, of primarily blue collar workers who bought into what Trump was selling and had a downright hatred of Hillary. This caused his spike in those areas, particularly in those that typically trend blue and caused him to win the election.
That's fair, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond as it gives me other points to consider.

Speaking of political indifference, not only did I use to be that way, but a number of people I knew were also that way. However, up here, over the past few years, I've become rather annoyed with politicians in general (all parties) and have found myself becoming more politically interested.

Either by coincidence, or just that we tend to attract like minded people, I feel like a lot more people up here have a political opinion and comments as of late. As I said, I don't know if that's simply due to me changing and perhaps seeking out like minded people, or if there is a change underway up here where people are just becoming more vocal about their frustrations.

Provinces up here are going blue though! Makes me happy.

Funny, actually now that I think about it. Blue up here is Conservative, while down there it would be Dems. And Liberals here are red, while down there it would be Repub. Basically opposite colour land.
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he's Canadian. By international law we all must worship him and all other products of the country.
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      04-25-2019, 12:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
That's fair, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond as it gives me other points to consider.

Speaking of political indifference, not only did I use to be that way, but a number of people I knew were also that way. However, up here, over the past few years, I've become rather annoyed with politicians in general (all parties) and have found myself becoming more politically interested.

Either by coincidence, or just that we tend to attract like minded people, I feel like a lot more people up here have a political opinion and comments as of late. As I said, I don't know if that's simply due to me changing and perhaps seeking out like minded people, or if there is a change underway up here where people are just becoming more vocal about their frustrations.

Provinces up here are going blue though! Makes me happy.

Funny, actually now that I think about it. Blue up here is Conservative, while down there it would be Dems. And Liberals here are red, while down there it would be Repub. Basically opposite colour land.

No worries at all - always enjoy a good conversation. Funny, I was about to ask if you made an error as I read you post then I got to the end where you noted the colors were reversed.

Not the first time Canada got things back assward (wink wink). I mean, no self respecting person puts gravy on french fries - that's just wrong. Plus, you guys still continue to absolutely decimate the proper form of bacon. For this there can be no excuse or reprisal.

On a side note, however, you do spell aluminium correctly and gave up on the ridiculous imperial standard measurement system we have here which is insane. One of my favorite (favourite?) all time bands is also proudly Canadian - The Real McKenzies.

Next time you are 'oot and aboot', grab some sweet mary's at your local "Mary Brown's" for me. Yum. I also am jealous that you have Spur's in Canada but we don't have them in the USA. We eat there each time we are in South Africa. Now, y'all just need to get some Nando's! Best peri-peri chicken around.
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      04-25-2019, 01:21 PM   #28
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I predict he will win the Democratic primaries, but I do not see him winning the presidential elections.

I predict Virginia will flip red. I predict the Bernie or bust voters will do what they did in 2016 (Vote Trump, independent or stay home). I predict the far left fringe will not vote for Biden, he is exactly what they do not want. I predict that Biden has too much baggage which Trump will take advantage of. Biden is not a good debater.

I suspect Trump will win the 2020 election by a significant margin. The Democrats are incredibly weak at the moment.
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      04-25-2019, 01:36 PM   #29
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Is Weld too libertarian to be an effective Republican candidate for 2020? Are there any other moderate Republicans of old thinking of running against Trump that could easily beat Biden or Sanders?
Frankly, almost any republican would beat Biden. Pence would beat Biden (or anyone else in the dem field), and he's as exciting as unbuttered toast. I'm really not a libertarian fan, but would vote for Weld over Trump or Sanders.
Kasich has reportedly thought about it, but I don't think its realistic with Trumps's "base".
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      04-25-2019, 02:29 PM   #30
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Lets hope for a 1 term Biden presidency and then we can elect a real republican to be president.
With the right Republican candidate I can get behind this 100%.
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      04-25-2019, 02:44 PM   #31
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No worries at all - always enjoy a good conversation. Funny, I was about to ask if you made an error as I read you post then I got to the end where you noted the colors were reversed.

Not the first time Canada got things back assward (wink wink). I mean, no self respecting person puts gravy on french fries - that's just wrong. Plus, you guys still continue to absolutely decimate the proper form of bacon. For this there can be no excuse or reprisal.

On a side note, however, you do spell aluminium correctly and gave up on the ridiculous imperial standard measurement system we have here which is insane. One of my favorite (favourite?) all time bands is also proudly Canadian - The Real McKenzies.

Next time you are 'oot and aboot', grab some sweet mary's at your local "Mary Brown's" for me. Yum. I also am jealous that you have Spur's in Canada but we don't have them in the USA. We eat there each time we are in South Africa. Now, y'all just need to get some Nando's! Best peri-peri chicken around.

Ha ha - we do have Nando's! And it is good chicken, though I make at least as good, probably better peri-peri. Once did the sauce homemade (bit of effort that), now I just buy the sauce already made and frankly I don't notice much difference in quality.

What is Spur's though?
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he's Canadian. By international law we all must worship him and all other products of the country.
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      04-25-2019, 02:45 PM   #32
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I saw this coming, and it is somewhat worrisome. He, in my opinion, is the only candidate that I think can really beat Trump. If he makes it through the primary, which honestly, I give as a 50/50, I believe he will have it locked and Trump will be a one term president.

Right now, Biden and Sanders are essentially tied at securing the nomination based on the polls and betting odds. I don't think enough Americans really care about the 'creepy uncle Joe' issues for it to matter (I mean, heck, look at Trump - sleazy as could be, but many voted for him anyway). If Biden doesn't cave to the me-too folks, and convinces many during the primary that he is 'the one' who can beat Trump, he will have it locked.

Interesting indeed.




Meh, I believe you are putting too much stock in the media and what you see and read via the internet and on television. I know you don't live in this country, but if you did and could see the average day to day folks - you would find that the vast majority are mostly in the center, leaning a bit left or a bit right. Most tend to have socially liberal views and fiscally conservative views and still believe in American exceptionalism.

If you put a moderate democrat and a moderate republican up against each other, the moderate democrat will probably win nearly every time. You start pushing them out to the edges more, though, and folks start swinging to the right. This is what happened during 2016.

Mark my words - if anyone but Biden and maybe Harris (maybe) win the nomination for the Democrat ticket, Trump will win. If Biden wins the primary, he will win. If Harris wins, it will be a toss up.
I tend to agree with you here. I for one fall into that socially more on the liberal side and fiscally more on the conservative side and have voted far more times Republican than I have Democrat over the years. This last time around I was really torn. Trump was by far not the ideal candidate and sure as heck didn't act like it, but I sure as hell don't like Clinton either. I chose what I thought was the lesser of two evils and voted for Trump. Looking back, I now feel that was a mistake. If it comes down to Trump / Biden it will be Biden for me. I sure as hell hope it isn't Sanders, otherwise Mickey Mouse will get one more vote.
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      04-25-2019, 02:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Ha ha - we do have Nando's! And it is good chicken, though I make at least as good, probably better peri-peri. Once did the sauce homemade (bit of effort that), now I just buy the sauce already made and frankly I don't notice much difference in quality.

What is Spur's though?
You're in Toronto - fuck Nando's, get yourself down to Momofuku and get that fried chicken and caviar dinner! I promise you will not regret it.
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      04-25-2019, 02:53 PM   #34
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You're in Toronto - fuck Nando's, get yourself down to Momofuku and get that fried chicken and caviar dinner! I promise you will not regret it.
The noodle bar on University ave?
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      04-25-2019, 03:05 PM   #35
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You're in Toronto - fuck Nando's, get yourself down to Momofuku and get that fried chicken and caviar dinner! I promise you will not regret it.
Have not had that - I'll keep that in mind next time I'm there.
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      04-25-2019, 03:47 PM   #36
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I mean, no self respecting person puts gravy on french fries - that's just wrong.
Not that he needs it, but would have to stand up for Joekerr on THIS one thing. Last year was my first trip to Montreal, stayed with some of my wife's relatives. Not sure what I was expecting, but I saw a table int he restuarant and somebody had poutine delivered, I had ot have it. I think that the only thing that rivals it is cheeseburger macaroni/cheese!!! COMFORT FOOD!!!!
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      04-25-2019, 03:55 PM   #37
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Are we discussing poutine? I could use some
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      04-25-2019, 04:21 PM   #38
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Are we discussing poutine? I could use some
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      04-25-2019, 04:25 PM   #39
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      04-25-2019, 04:50 PM   #40
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I wonder if Kamala Harris will back off the proposal to eliminate private health insurance and just go with the single-payer system. I think she came up with that to poach Sanders voters. But I don't think that's gonna fly when competing with Biden.
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      04-25-2019, 04:53 PM   #41
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First, what the Hell is up with a campaign launch by video? Really strikes me as odd.

Next, why is he waiting until next week to appear anyplace in person? Everybody hits the campaign trail right away after launch. This definitely doesn't send a message of vigor and enthusiasm.

Also, I don't think Biden could win a debate against President Trump; never mind the general election.

However the saying goes... The best evidence that something will happen is if it happened before. Biden has failed to win his party's nomination at least twice now. My money is on him making it a three-peat.
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      04-25-2019, 05:00 PM   #42
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First, what the Hell is up with a campaign launch by video? Really strikes me as odd.

Next, why is he waiting until next week to appear anyplace in person? Everybody hits the campaign trail right away after launch. This definitely doesn't send a message of vigor and enthusiasm.

Also, I don't think Biden could win a debate against President Trump; never mind the general election.

However the saying goes... The best evidence that something will happen is if it happened before. Biden has failed to win his party's nomination at least twice now. My money is on him making it a three-peat.
You don't think Biden could beat Trump in a debate? Trump couldn't beat Hillary in a debate. And Hillary's Was obviously not a good debater.
Anybody who didn't vote for Trump in the primary would probably agree he didn't win any Republican debates either.
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      04-25-2019, 05:22 PM   #43
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You don't think Biden could beat Trump in a debate? Trump couldn't beat Hillary in a debate. And Hillary's Was obviously not a good debater.
Only the most biased would believe Hillary won all three debates against Trump. 👎🏻
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      04-25-2019, 05:25 PM   #44
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You don't think Biden could beat Trump in a debate? Trump couldn't beat Hillary in a debate. And Hillary's Was obviously not a good debater.
Only the most biased would believe Hillary won all three debates against Trump. 👎🏻
As disappointed as I was with trump winning the Republican nomination, I cleared the deck, left preconceptions behind, and listened,
Trump did not win any debates. Though the debate when he was following her around was very weird, and ill-conceived.
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