Sat in the 2016 Camaro SS today

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Fuel mileage sucks? The Camaro SS is rated at 28 MPG highway and the M4 is 26 MPG. Less than half the displacement, less power and less torque and the M4 somehow can only manage 26 MPG. The fuel economy is downright excellent for a 450+ HP. car.

As for maintenance, I'll gladly do a couple extra $50 oil changes in my driveway if it meant saving $25,000 on the purchase price.

My mistake. Thanks for calling me out. I read it got 16mpg in town which does suck. But the highway mileage is great for a car with that displacement and horsepower.

[Arcades]

I have no real doubt about recent muscle cars but I have never been a fan of them to begin with.

If I have to pick one over my M4 it'll be the Hellcat.

[pikkagtr]

I don't many people cross shop a $45k camaro and a $70k M4
There are too many nuances and minor differences that make the F8x far better than the Chevy, but you'd have to own one and then drive the other to find out.
I could care less if the camaro is faster or is the better "deal" , at the end of the day it still pretty much looks like very other rental Hertz has on their lot and the same car the 19 yr old college girl taking a selfie with her taco bell dog that daddy paid for drives

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Posts like this always amuse me.

To fix this, I suggest the Chevy Sonic or Cruz. Great visibility, really gets you "up there".

Otherwise, it's sad you'll never be able to drive an Aston Martin, Jag, Ferrari, Lamborghini, or any low roofline/long front hood type car.

Rear window on my 428GC is almost the exact same size as was on my Camaro SS.

Yes, it doesn't have the best visibility, that's the price you pay for lowering the car, having a low roofline, getting the engine behind the front axle, etc. That's why it's a "sports" car. Compromises.

I didn't know you designed the Camaro, seeing how personal you took MY opinion. I did not bash the car. I said it was a fine car, but the visibility is worse than other cars in its class. My F82 visibility is 100 times better.

Also, these cars have a great potential to be daily drivers. The cars you mentioned are rarely driven. For a daily driver I believe there should be greater visibility than what the Camaro offers.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

I don't many people cross shop a $45k camaro and a $70k M4
There are too many nuances and minor differences that make the F8x far better than the Chevy, but you'd have to own one and then drive the other to find out.
I could care less if the camaro is faster or is the better "deal" , at the end of the day it still pretty much looks like very other rental Hertz has on their lot and the same car the 19 yr old college girl taking a selfie with her taco bell dog that daddy paid for drives

Completely different cars so you can't sit here & say no cross shopping then the M4 is better.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

M4 gets ass handed to it?

If not by the SS, definitely by the 1LE.

[EternalVendetta]

No one wants to hear that their car performs worse than another car that costs significantly less. Let's try to just stick to discussing the Camaro for now and save the comparisons until after the MT video comes out to see if it is even the case.

[David70]

Originally Posted by EternalVendetta

No one wants to hear that their car performs worse than another car that costs significantly less. Let's try to just stick to discussing the Camaro for now and save the comparisons until after the MT video comes out to see if it is even the case.

I find it interesting when people on a discussion board try to tell others what should be discussed. For now we are supposed to only talk about the Camaro and not compare it to other cars because it might hurt some people's feelings?

Performance numbers are only one of many reasons to buy a car and if ultimate numbers/dollar was the only goal I think a used Corvette is a good option.

[EternalVendetta]

Originally Posted by David70

I find it interesting when people on a discussion board try to tell others what should be discussed. For now we are supposed to only talk about the Camaro and not compare it to other cars because it might hurt some people's feelings?

Performance numbers are only one of many reasons to buy a car and if ultimate numbers/dollar was the only goal I think a used Corvette is a good option.

Maybe it was a bit much to suggest not comparing the Camaro to anything else, but it didn't seem like the conversation was heading toward the best place (talks of the M4 getting "spanked" and something about the Camaro and the Taco Bell dog or something).

I do think it's an interesting head-to-head, but my hope is that we can talk about it without going about it in such a way that it doesn't bring down owners of either car unnecessarily. That's all I'm trying to avoid.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

I don't many people cross shop a $45k camaro and a $70k M4
There are too many nuances and minor differences that make the F8x far better than the Chevy, but you'd have to own one and then drive the other to find out.
I could care less if the camaro is faster or is the better "deal" , at the end of the day it still pretty much looks like very other rental Hertz has on their lot and the same car the 19 yr old college girl taking a selfie with her taco bell dog that daddy paid for drives

And the M3/M4 "still pretty much looks like very other rental Hertz has on their lot and the same car the 19 yr old college girl taking a selfie with her taco bell dog that daddy paid for drives." Did you forget that the M3/4 are based on the 3/4 series which are inexpensive and found in every middle class high school parking lot?

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by fcman

And the M3/M4 "still pretty much looks like very other rental Hertz has on their lot and the same car the 19 yr old college girl taking a selfie with her taco bell dog that daddy paid for drives." Did you forget that the M3/4 are based on the 3/4 series which are inexpensive and found in every middle class high school parking lot?

Last time I checked , Hertz didn't rent out f30s and middle/ highschool teachers drove camrys and Prius , students drove the bus or hand me down civic and corolla
BTW, I've yet to encounter anyone in the bay area who DIDNT know what my M3 was, and there's a sea of F3x driving everywhere.

[Chez]

I'm not sure what they've done to them for the latest model year, but I've driven a few Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers and Chargers and they all fitted the stereotype of American cars - Too big, gaudy, fairly fast in a straight line, not exactly confidence-inspiring in corners and terrible visibility.

[Chez]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

My mistake. Thanks for calling me out. I read it got 16mpg in town which does suck. But the highway mileage is great for a car with that displacement and horsepower.

Not sure how people are driving their M3s/M4s, but I'm averaging 16.4mpg. Bunch of grandmas.

Besides, who buys any of these cars for the gas mileage?

[fcman]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Last time I checked , Hertz didn't rent out f30s and middle/ highschool teachers drove camrys and Prius , students drove the bus or hand me down civic and corolla
BTW, I've yet to encounter anyone in the bay area who DIDNT know what my M3 was, and there's a sea of F3x driving everywhere.

Hertz may not but Enterprise sure does. And really, only beaters in high school lots? Must be that bay area real estate keeping people from being able to afford decent cars. In my area, every single high school lot is full of latest-gen BMWs, Mercs, Land Rovers, and $50k trucks. Hell there were kids driving 1-2 year old M3s and M5s at my school. Then again my hometown has a much higher avg income than SF and significantly cheaper real estate, so maybe I'm spoiled

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Chez

I'm not sure what they've done to them for the latest model year, but I've driven a few Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers and Chargers and they all fitted the stereotype of American cars - Too big, gaudy, fairly fast in a straight line, not exactly confidence-inspiring in corners and terrible visibility.

Guess you never drove a 5th gen Z28 or ZL1...

[Chez]

Originally Posted by BoostedRide

Guess you never drove a 5th gen Z28 or ZL1...

Correct

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Chez

I'm not sure what they've done to them for the latest model year, but I've driven a few Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers and Chargers and they all fitted the stereotype of American cars - Too big, gaudy, fairly fast in a straight line, not exactly confidence-inspiring in corners and terrible visibility.

You definitely have not been paying attention to muscle cars in the last few years, if you think that all they do is go fast in a straight line!

This quote from Car and Driver's 2014 Lightning Lap comparing high performance street cars on the VIR racetrack is all you need to know to get you up to speed:

"Get this: In Turn One, the Z/28 matched the Porsche 918 by posting 1.16 g’s, the highest grip we’ve ever recorded in that corner. Another unfunny fact, at least to Porschephiles: In the uphill esses, a Camaro topped the 918’s average and exit speeds."

[Chez]

Originally Posted by wjones14

You definitely have not been paying attention to muscle cars in the last few years, if you think that all they do is go fast in a straight line!

I believe I made a few more points than just that.

And I'm just going on my first hand experience of some.

They're still (mostly) gaudy AF. IMO.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Last time I checked , Hertz didn't rent out f30s

Don't be ridiculous. Of course they rent out F30s. Have you even rented a car lately? I travel all the time and a large percentage of the time, the F30 IS THE luxury rental car at these places. There's usually dozens of them.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Chez

I'm not sure what they've done to them for the latest model year, but I've driven a few Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers and Chargers and they all fitted the stereotype of American cars - Too big, gaudy, fairly fast in a straight line, not exactly confidence-inspiring in corners and terrible visibility.

Right, because an F30 is the pinnacle of luxury, CNCed from an 8 foot block of aluminum, inlaid with goat leather and diamonds.

Please, the Camaro is as good or better than anything BMW is putting out that costs 20K more. There's no magic fairy dust that makes the plastic in your BMW better.

For the last time, the Camaro is not a passenger car like a chevy cruz or your F30-based car. The car and chassis are much more designed to provide performance, rather than haul 5 adults. Yes, you will never be able to drive a low slug car, we get it. If there's one thing the Zeta and Alpha chassis do though, it's inspire confidence in corners and in handling overall. You might want to see if your DeLorean is stuck in the 1990s, because what was true then is not true anymore. GM figured out how to make chassis and especially suspension, which they've been doing since the 5th Gen Camaro, 2nd Gen CTS-V, and 6th gen Corvette.

[Chez]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Right, because an F30 is the pinnacle of luxury, CNCed from an 8 foot block of aluminum, inlaid with goat leather and diamonds.

Who compared it to an F30?

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Please, the Camaro is as good or better than anything BMW is putting out that costs 20K more. There's no magic fairy dust that makes the plastic in your BMW better.

Come on now, you're just sounding silly. The interiors (and exteriors) on those things are just gaudy.

Also, such hostility. Did you accidentally trip and fall into a BMW forum?

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Yes, you will never be able to drive a low slug car, we get it.

What's a low slug car? If you mean low-slung.. you have no idea what I drive, have driven or own, apart from what you can see on my profile on a BMW Forum lol

Perhaps your entire rant wasn't aimed at me? If it was I have no idea why. If it wasn't, you may want to learn to quote better

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Chez

you have no idea what I drive, have driven or own, apart from what you can see on my profile on a BMW Forum lol

Actually, we do know what you've owned and driven. Let's see, you own a 2016 M4, black with orange leather, automatic, ... and you've driven a few Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, and Chargers.

The only reason I called you out on it was your comment about modern muscle cars going fast in a straight line. When you make that comment, it implies they can't do anything else.

We'll know soon enough what the Camaro can do other than go fast in a straight line, in upcoming Head2Head against the 2016 M4. The results should be posted in another week, and we'll see what Randy P. and the other pros say about both cars. Maybe you'll be proven correct.