A little help needed to understand vehicle 'titles'

[Blackadder]

As a Canadian I'm not to familiar with the process on vehicle titles. Here is my situation and Im asking for a little advice.

I'm looking at a beautiful 09 BMW K1300S located in the South East US. The seller and I have been emailing back and forth for the past few weeks. We both have agreed that the transaction won't take place until around March (I want to be able to ride the bike back from the West Coast shipping address in Seattle).

He mentioned that the title is still held by BMW Financial. He suggested that I contact and pay BMW directly and he would add the extra $$ needed for them to release the title. Once the title is clear he would send it to me. To ease any concerns he suggested that he send the signed sales agreement AND ship the bike to me prior to me sending payment.

I need advice from you US guys. Could this work?

[CollinsE90]

Something sounds fishy in that

[Buegie]

There was still a loan out on my car when I bought it. I wasn't going to hand over any money until I had clean title in hand. So it was up to the seller to get the money to pay off the loan and get the title sent to him from the bank. Only after that did I give him a bank check and we finished the deal.

I wouldn't want to send any money to BMWFS because there's no way to ensure that the seller will deliver the title to you once it's sent to him. And even if he sends you the actual bike, it's worthless without the title. Maybe I'm paranoid but that's how I would approach this.

[BTM]

Vehicles aren't titled in Canada? Op: the transaction should take place with you showing up with payment and him signing the title to you...I wouldn't pay anything before that unless it is just a deposit

[Maestro]

Kind of sounds like a scam, especially if he is claiming that he has to add money to pay off the loan in addition to what he wants you to send.

I personally only do deals in the US with title in hand, meaning that the owner better have title at the moment of transaction so we can head to the notary and sign it over. I do the same when I sell I take the buyer to the local AAA or Notary and make sure it is transacted to the new owner.

Also, it take time even after the loan is paid off to get possession of the title. The problem is each state handle this stuff differently. I know car dealers do this all the time, there are forms you can fill out that says ownership changed hands, and you send this form to the bank holding the loan with a check for the loan balance and they will release the title to the new owner then you have to go to the state and transfer the title to the new owner name and such and get a new title issued.

If you think this is real and the guy is trying to get out from under the car loan, you can check with that states DMV to find out what paper work needs to be submitted to make the transaction happen. You might also call BMWFS and see what they need to release the title to you once the transaction is made.

All I can say this is not going to be a easy deal it going to require lots of leg work on your part

[Quick6EF]

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually (always) is.

[Blackadder]

Originally Posted by BTM

Vehicles aren't titled in Canada?

Not ones that are held by the banks. All it takes to transfer a vehicle here in BC is one transfer document.

I have sold a couple of vehicles in the past that I owed money on and used the sale to pay it off. That been said, I have never sold one for less than I owed.

So it wouldn't make you guys feel any better about the deal having the bike and sales contract in your possession?

[BTM]

Is there anyway to basically transfer the loan to you when the time comes, see what the buyout is at that time, and based on the prevailing buyout price he comes up with the difference between the negotiated sell price, he transfers the loan/title to you, and you buy it out? I honestly don't know how it works with bank held titles, but perhaps that is a route to look into...

[Blackadder]

That would be the easiest plan wouldn't it.

[Freakazoid]

also look at LEGITIMATE escrows.

Escrows have a horrible name with all the scammers. There's lots of good ones out there that are worth doing. If you're out of the country, I'd REALLY recommend doing this.

It does sound like a scam though for what its worth. Not a blatant one but cover your ass (i.e. scrow)

[OC Guy]

Only time I would do this is if I went to the bank or Financial Institution with the person with the title in hand then pay off the loan.

Gauge your risk. Too much risk IMO.

[Gavin@MMW]

Originally Posted by Quick6EF

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually (always) is.

Totally off topic,

But your signature is awesome!

soccer snipers lol

[Blackadder]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

Only time I would do this is if I went to the bank or Financial Institution with the person with the title in hand then pay off the loan.

There lies the problem, he cant get the title in hand until he pays off BMWFS. Once they have full payment they will release the title.

I guess I could have him go to a Notary and have the transaction plan signed off through them. He is willing to send the keys to me AND ship the bike to the westcoast before me sending him the money.

Any US member with legal knowledge know what the outcome would be if I a) Have the keys, b) have the bike in my possession, and c) have a Notary letter detailing the transaction. If he doesn't follow through with sending me the title what grounds do I have?

[scollins]

Originally Posted by Blackadder

There lies the problem, he cant get the title in hand until he pays off BMWFS. Once they have full payment they will release the title.

I guess I could have him go to a Notary and have the transaction plan signed off through them. He is willing to send the keys to me AND ship the bike to the westcoast before me sending him the money.

Any US member with legal knowledge know what the outcome would be if I a) Have the keys, b) have the bike in my possession, and c) have a Notary letter detailing the transaction. If he doesn't follow through with sending me the title what grounds do I have?

Here is what would happen:
1.) You send money to BMWFS to pay off the loan.
2.) BMWFS doesn't care who makes the payment, as long as the money is good.
3.) Guy gets title to bike and says "Thanks buddy!"
4.) Guy keeps bike, now free and clear, and you are SCREWED.
5.) Even with a notarized letter detailing the transaction, you'd still have to take him to court to enforce the contract.

Or, if you have the keys and bike in hand, he files a police report saying it is stolen. "Here is my title officer! Go get him!"

Maybe I'm just too paranoid....

My advice? Don't do it. At least now without a vehicle broker or some sort of escrow company.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by scollins

Here is what would happen:
1.) You send money to BMWFS to pay off the loan.
2.) BMWFS doesn't care who makes the payment, as long as the money is good.
3.) Guy gets title to bike and says "Thanks buddy!"
4.) Guy keeps bike, now free and clear, and you are SCREWED.
5.) Even with a notarized letter detailing the transaction, you'd still have to take him to court to enforce the contract.

Or, if you have the keys and bike in hand, he files a police report saying it is stolen. "Here is my title officer! Go get him!"

Maybe I'm just too paranoid....

My advice? Don't do it. At least now without a vehicle broker or some sort of escrow company.

this, this is the best synopsis. You really have to realize you'll be dealing out of the country....
without an escrow or some sort of REAL backing, he can screw you two ways from Sunday and you can't do a damn thing about it.
Even if you have everything you might possibly need, if you have to take him to court, you're going to have to take him to court in the states, *in his home town*, which means airfare, etc etc.

I'd lean more towards NOT doing it. But if you really want to, again go escrow.

[molossus]

i keep reading the thread title as vehicle titties.