I want to be wrong, but... I think BMW M has lost its way.

omasou · 08-03-2023, 12:33 PM

///MPhatic · 08-03-2023, 12:48 PM

He's 100% spot on.

All I can say is that I'm glad I have my OG M2.

pikkagtr · 08-03-2023, 01:12 PM

The last good M car was the F8x generation
Basically after Bierman left, the took the spirit of M with him to Hyundai

Car-Addicted · 08-03-2023, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

The last good M car was the F8x generation

It should come as no surprise how many people on this forum are Porsche owners or want to be.
BMW has enormous head winds on the horizons as the EV market softens and the Dollar loses it's strength making their cars even more expensive. The EV price drops will effect EV profitability and especially in China. My prediction is there is a BMW truck division in the future no matter what Adrian van Hooydonk says?

tturedraider · 08-03-2023, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

He's 100% spot on.

+1!!!! On every point he makes. I wish it wasn’t so true.

xander_g · 08-03-2023, 02:15 PM

Despite the current economic and social climate, the m brand needs to be revitalized.

tracer bullet · 08-03-2023, 02:16 PM

That was actually a really well laid out argument. I think it acknowledges every single argument that can be made to the contrary.

For those on the fence about spending the time watching it, the gist is - yeah, BMW wants to sell cars and make money, we get it, but couldn't they do it while still acknowledging their history and having at least something for their enthusiasts?

DanG · 08-03-2023, 02:24 PM

I am a fan of the F series M cars but not the G series. But the G series Ms seems to sell well. So I may be left behind but it seems many are willing to take my place.

My M2 may be my last BMW.

Chihuahua · 08-03-2023, 05:06 PM

I watched it, the second half had a little bit too much 'get off my lawn!' vibe to it, but I do agree that Frank VM probably needs to make way for someone a bit more in tune with BMWs heritage.

///M Power-Belgium · 08-03-2023, 05:30 PM

The last true ///M car is the E92 with a carbon roof and the atmospheric S65-V8 high revving engine .

M-technik-3 · 08-03-2023, 06:12 PM

While I disagree with some things Mike has done in the last 2 1/2 decades some things I do agree with and this is one. He is right and the bottom line is how many DM/$ or Euro they are bringing in. It's a business.

I think they missed the mark back in 2002 when they had inventory of 2002's and could have easily made some homage to the car that put them back in the black! The made one inca 2002TII at classic and then dropped the ball for the 25th anniversary or the E30 M3. It was zilch and to include the 30th.... North America market probably has the most robust E30 M3 collect we keep these things going mine has 310K miles on it, but I could not stomach a 2.5L short block in 2016 for 20K and now BMW NA with NO 2.3L engines refuse to sell a 2.5L short block.

I love me E91 and E90 but I never for see myself purchasing a new BMW again.

Rafichicago · 08-03-2023, 06:13 PM

He is right. I don’t only agree with the part that the best M cars were made in the 90s.However he is very clear about being biased and with those cars being sweet spot for him for many reasons Other than that spot on. To me the last crazy M car was with introduction of E60 M5 with V10 that was completely ridiculous

after that it all was easy to guess. This is pathetic that with introduction of the car that in many ways supposed to mimic the time where it has all started is limited to 50 cars for ultra wealthy individuals that haven’t made the brand what it once was.

NYG1121 · 08-03-2023, 06:39 PM

Only way for them to care is if we stop buying them. Which isn’t happening looking at their sales. So as I said in previous posts, hold to your current ones as the era of newer “M” always being better is over

Germanauto · 08-03-2023, 06:54 PM

The only M car that's interested me the past decade has been the F87 M2. The G87 may be a great car, I'd have to drive it to find out, but it's weird knowing that the lightest and most focused car the M division produces is...3800 lbs.

It's a lot of car for the money, but I think I'll roll with a 4-5 yr old Boxster S/GTS for my next car. Why compromise with the BMW when you can get the gold standard of sub-$100k sports cars instead?

Germanauto · 08-03-2023, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

That was actually a really well laid out argument. I think it acknowledges every single argument that can be made to the contrary.

I didn't think so. The guy just kept ranting about ///Marketing, which is true, but he ignored the increasing size/weight/numb steering, etc. complaints with these cars as well. I wouldn't mind the marketing if everything else measured up.

erickonphoenix · 08-03-2023, 07:20 PM

I'm not sure they lost their way. BMW still offers outstanding drivers cars but big flex SUVs make money. Even Ferrari is making an SUV now.

GinTonic · 08-03-2023, 07:25 PM

BMW has become another Kia

Car-Addicted · 08-03-2023, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GinTonic

BMW has become another Kia

That's cold.

I don't think BMW is any were near Kia territory but I get your drift.

Car-Addicted · 08-03-2023, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickyC

I'm thankful they made the wonderful F82 CS, it's the best car I've ever owned and I hope to drive it for years and years.

I'm in complete agreement. IMO the The pre 2021 M3 CS and M4 CS are the high water marks of the BMW M evolution.

erickonphoenix · 08-03-2023, 07:45 PM

yeah, I test drove a Kia K5 GT and although it was very nice it reeked of FWD so I put it back.

tracer bullet · 08-03-2023, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germanauto

he ignored the increasing size/weight/numb steering, etc. complaints with these cars as well.

I may have to watch it again. It might have just been me but I sort of thought that was actually captured. If not said outright, it was implied. So that could be my bias in action. Interesting.

NickyC · 08-03-2023, 07:48 PM

I'm thankful they made the wonderful F82 CS, it's the best car I've ever owned and I hope to drive it for years and years.

With that being said, I don't agree with much of what this guy has to say. I've owned basically nothing but ///M cars for nearly 25 years now, starting with the E36 M3 and moving as far forward as the G82. I can certainly see the charm of an E36 or E46 M3, and while the Z4M Roadster is my favorite car (not the best, my favorite) which I've owned, I think the present ///M cars are incredible driving machines. If not for the absolutely horrific look of the new G8x cars, I'd still be driving the G82. I was quite impressed with everything else about the car, but I still had to look at it and it was a hump I could never get over. It's just that damned ugly in my eyes.

My sincere hope is BMW fires whoever is currently designing their vehicles and starts making good looking cars again. Outside of the M5, X5M (X3M to some extent is OK), and Z4, BMW design is complete trash right now. They really are some of the ugliest cars on the road, and the problem is they don't even look like BMWs now. The heritage and classic styling is completely gone. When I see a G8x in the rear even to this day I still see a Lexus, it's dreadful.

I will say however, this guy is way too old to be sounding this crotchety. The cars are better, much better. If they get the looks back in line I'll drive 'em for another 25 years.

08-03-2023, 12:33 PM	#1
omasou Brigadier General 2121 Rep 3,025 Posts Drives: BMWs Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: US iTrader: (4) Garage List 2023 BMW S1000RR [0.50] 2022 BMW F900XR [3.00] 2022 BMW X6 40i [0.50] 2020 BMW M2C [9.50]	I want to be wrong, but... I think BMW M has lost its way.
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08-03-2023, 12:48 PM	#2
///MPhatic The Seeker 15317 Rep 3,807 Posts Drives: OG M2 • Exige Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: USA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2018 BMW M2 [8.75]	He's 100% spot on. All I can say is that I'm glad I have my OG M2.
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08-03-2023, 01:12 PM	#3
pikkagtr Go Spurs Go 3985 Rep 2,914 Posts Drives: '22 GR Z4 Coup '06 Z4M Rdster Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (-1)	The last good M car was the F8x generation Basically after Bierman left, the took the spirit of M with him to Hyundai
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08-03-2023, 02:15 PM	#6
xander_g Major 1074 Rep 1,158 Posts Drives: G30 M550i Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Toronto iTrader: (2) Garage List 2018 BMW M550i Xdrive [0.00]	Despite the current economic and social climate, the m brand needs to be revitalized.
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08-03-2023, 02:16 PM	#7
tracer bullet Brigadier General 3705 Rep 4,244 Posts Drives: '25 Z4, '15 X3 35i (135i sold) Join Date: May 2011 Location: Saint Paul, MN iTrader: (1)	That was actually a really well laid out argument. I think it acknowledges every single argument that can be made to the contrary. For those on the fence about spending the time watching it, the gist is - yeah, BMW wants to sell cars and make money, we get it, but couldn't they do it while still acknowledging their history and having at least something for their enthusiasts?
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08-03-2023, 02:24 PM	#8
DanG Major General 11434 Rep 7,140 Posts Drives: 2018 M2 AW DCT Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2018 BMW M2 [7.95]	I am a fan of the F series M cars but not the G series. But the G series Ms seems to sell well. So I may be left behind but it seems many are willing to take my place. My M2 may be my last BMW. __________________ BMWCCA member Puget Sound Chapter
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08-03-2023, 05:06 PM	#9
Chihuahua Brigadier General 4449 Rep 3,355 Posts Drives: E30 329iS, E65 Alpina B7 Join Date: May 2012 Location: ATL iTrader: (0)	I watched it, the second half had a little bit too much 'get off my lawn!' vibe to it, but I do agree that Frank VM probably needs to make way for someone a bit more in tune with BMWs heritage. Last edited by Chihuahua; 08-03-2023 at 05:15 PM..
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08-03-2023, 05:30 PM	#10
///M Power-Belgium General 70466 Rep 26,612 Posts Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Belgium iTrader: (0)	The last true ///M car is the E92 with a carbon roof and the atmospheric S65-V8 high revving engine . __________________ "MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
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08-03-2023, 06:12 PM	#11
M-technik-3 Lieutenant Colonel 2424 Rep 1,628 Posts Drives: E30 M3, E36 M3, 328iT, 335i Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: western Ma iTrader: (0) Garage List 1995 M3 [9.00] 2007 E91 [7.25] 1988 M3 [9.50]	While I disagree with some things Mike has done in the last 2 1/2 decades some things I do agree with and this is one. He is right and the bottom line is how many DM/$ or Euro they are bringing in. It's a business. I think they missed the mark back in 2002 when they had inventory of 2002's and could have easily made some homage to the car that put them back in the black! The made one inca 2002TII at classic and then dropped the ball for the 25th anniversary or the E30 M3. It was zilch and to include the 30th.... North America market probably has the most robust E30 M3 collect we keep these things going mine has 310K miles on it, but I could not stomach a 2.5L short block in 2016 for 20K and now BMW NA with NO 2.3L engines refuse to sell a 2.5L short block. I love me E91 and E90 but I never for see myself purchasing a new BMW again.
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08-03-2023, 06:13 PM	#12
Rafichicago Captain 837 Rep 652 Posts Drives: 2018 M5 2009 E63AMG Wagon Join Date: May 2022 Location: Chicago IL iTrader: (0)	He is right. I don’t only agree with the part that the best M cars were made in the 90s.However he is very clear about being biased and with those cars being sweet spot for him for many reasons Other than that spot on. To me the last crazy M car was with introduction of E60 M5 with V10 that was completely ridiculous after that it all was easy to guess. This is pathetic that with introduction of the car that in many ways supposed to mimic the time where it has all started is limited to 50 cars for ultra wealthy individuals that haven’t made the brand what it once was.
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08-03-2023, 06:39 PM	#13
NYG1121 Private First Class 357 Rep 158 Posts Drives: 2023 M5C Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NE iTrader: (0)	Only way for them to care is if we stop buying them. Which isn’t happening looking at their sales. So as I said in previous posts, hold to your current ones as the era of newer “M” always being better is over
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08-03-2023, 06:54 PM	#14
Germanauto Major General 9841 Rep 6,142 Posts Drives: Alfa Romeo Giulia, Rosso Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: LA iTrader: (0)	The only M car that's interested me the past decade has been the F87 M2. The G87 may be a great car, I'd have to drive it to find out, but it's weird knowing that the lightest and most focused car the M division produces is...3800 lbs. It's a lot of car for the money, but I think I'll roll with a 4-5 yr old Boxster S/GTS for my next car. Why compromise with the BMW when you can get the gold standard of sub-$100k sports cars instead? __________________ Former -2008 E90 328 black/brown -2012 Lexus IS250 black/black
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08-03-2023, 07:20 PM	#16
erickonphoenix Captain 2055 Rep 653 Posts Drives: 2014 Gray 328xi Touring Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Houston TX iTrader: (0)	I'm not sure they lost their way. BMW still offers outstanding drivers cars but big flex SUVs make money. Even Ferrari is making an SUV now. __________________
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08-03-2023, 07:25 PM	#17
GinTonic Private First Class 147 Rep 190 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2022 Location: US iTrader: (0)	BMW has become another Kia
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08-03-2023, 07:45 PM	#20
erickonphoenix Captain 2055 Rep 653 Posts Drives: 2014 Gray 328xi Touring Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Houston TX iTrader: (0)	yeah, I test drove a Kia K5 GT and although it was very nice it reeked of FWD so I put it back. __________________
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08-03-2023, 07:48 PM	#22
NickyC Lieutenant General 19210 Rep 11,184 Posts Drives: M4 CS. Former G82, x2 F82, F80 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Jacked out of my mind iTrader: (23)	I'm thankful they made the wonderful F82 CS, it's the best car I've ever owned and I hope to drive it for years and years. With that being said, I don't agree with much of what this guy has to say. I've owned basically nothing but ///M cars for nearly 25 years now, starting with the E36 M3 and moving as far forward as the G82. I can certainly see the charm of an E36 or E46 M3, and while the Z4M Roadster is my favorite car (not the best, my favorite) which I've owned, I think the present ///M cars are incredible driving machines. If not for the absolutely horrific look of the new G8x cars, I'd still be driving the G82. I was quite impressed with everything else about the car, but I still had to look at it and it was a hump I could never get over. It's just that damned ugly in my eyes. My sincere hope is BMW fires whoever is currently designing their vehicles and starts making good looking cars again. Outside of the M5, X5M (X3M to some extent is OK), and Z4, BMW design is complete trash right now. They really are some of the ugliest cars on the road, and the problem is they don't even look like BMWs now. The heritage and classic styling is completely gone. When I see a G8x in the rear even to this day I still see a Lexus, it's dreadful. I will say however, this guy is way too old to be sounding this crotchety. The cars are better, much better. If they get the looks back in line I'll drive 'em for another 25 years.
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