Custom seat advise

[ricardofors68]

Treading really close to being a silly question but I've never been accused of being a smart guy;
I want to swap my seats for race seats but I want to retain the electric sliding and tilting options and why not, heating as well, who could point me in the direction of a shop that have done this for our cars?
I have done this in my vette but those shops work only on corvettes. There has to be someone, somewhere out there that has done this.
Any clues or ideas? Ultimately I could just bolt any seat via aftermarket brackets to the floor but I wanted to go a little extra with this.
Thanks in advance gang.

Ricardo

Photo just for kicks...

[inTgr8r]

How much track time do you plan to do and is it still used on street?

If just a few HPDE days, then reupolserting the stock seats in Alcantara is a choice.
You can also use a quickfit 4 pt harness.

[ricardofors68]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

How much track time do you plan to do and is it still used on street?

If just a few HPDE days, then reupolserting the stock seats in Alcantara is a choice.
You can also use a quickfit 4 pt harness.

I thought about the 4pt harness, but it seems that the hpde organizers that I chose to go with frown upon 4pt harnesses, they rather see you with the stock seatbelt.
I haven't considered reupholstering the seats because, possibility of returning everything back to stock, and more importantly, I haven't been impressed by the upholstery shops near me. But I guess it wont hurt to at least get a quote.
Thank you.

[rantarM3]

There’s a website from some shop showing how they retrofitted the power mechanism to a Recaro seat. If I find it I’ll post the link.

Have you thought about the passenger seat occupancy sensor? I did a bit of research because I wanted the Performance seats but decided it was too much risk installing a passenger sest that did not have the sensor. It is my understanding that whether the passenger airbag deploys and the force with which it deploys is based on the weight/size of the passenger, determined by input from the sensor mat. If you go with race seats you will lose the occupancy sensor and shops will code your car for the airbag light, but the airbag will deploy full force irrespective of passenger size/weight. For me, that wss too much liability in the event of an accident - and your insurance may refuse coverage because you “tampered” with thr vehicle’s safety systems. Just something to think about if you’re going to use your car on the street. At least, wih an 08, you don’t have the active head restraints.

[ricardofors68]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

There’s a website from some shop showing how they retrofitted the power mechanism to a Recaro seat. If I find it I’ll post the link.
I hope you find it!
Have you thought about the passenger seat occupancy sensor? I did a bit of research because I wanted the Performance seats but decided it was too much risk installing a passenger sest that did not have the sensor. It is my understanding that whether the passenger airbag deploys and the force with which it deploys is based on the weight/size of the passenger, determined by input from the sensor mat. If you go with race seats you will lose the occupancy sensor and shops will code your car for the airbag light, but the airbag will deploy full force irrespective of passenger size/weight. For me, that wss too much liability in the event of an accident - and your insurance may refuse coverage because you “tampered” with thr vehicle’s safety systems. Just something to think about if you’re going to use your car on the street. At least, wih an 08, you don’t have the active head restraints.

Those are good points to ponder as I do use my car as a daily, but it might just work out as I might get a chance to remove it from the daily driver list as I am selling some of my vehicles. On my previous experience with seat conversions, my passenger race seat kept the occupancy sensor as well. How does the bmw sensor work? Maybe that could also be adapted...
Thank you though for the suggestions.

[jiggz]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

Photo just for kicks...

That hallowed ground there, Mount Suribachi, Iwo Jima. Tough place to visit/get access to, even if you're military, right?

[ricardofors68]

You are correct. There still caves and tunnels that the Japanese dug, lots of other humbling things throughout the atoll.

When I was stationed in Japan with the Navy Air Wing, we had the priviliedge to go to Iwo to keep pilot's take off/landing proficiency. The place is run by the Japanese and as you would expect treated like a shrine. But they rather us come here a fly around than do it in and around Tokyo..

Ricardo

[roastbeef]

Nothing to add, but thank you for your service to our country.

[pbonsalb]

If you want heated, tilt, reclining, they aren’t really race seats. What about a quality aftermarket seat like Recaro Sportster CS or Sparco SPX?

[DSilk]

I'm not sure that you aren't defeating the purpose of a racing seat by adding your requirements. Apart from providing proper support (which a high-end Recaro will do), the race seat has 2 advantages. First it saves weight, a benefit you effectively eliminate by adding back power adjustments. Second, it is designed to accept a 5 point race harness, which requires removal of the existing 3 point harness and substitution with a properly anchored 5 point harness, which effectively eliminates the real-world utility of the left rear seat.

[Obioban]

Recaro Sport Toplines attached to your OE sliders with Brey Krause's R-9292 mounts.

Comes from Recaro with heating, ventilation, leather, and power back rest. Using the R-9292 you can mounted it on your factory BMW power slider.

Not the lightest setup out there, but lighter and more supportive than stock!

If you can live with a manual backrest, you could do the sportster CS-- you can get it from Recaro with seat heating (not cooling AFAIK). But, if you're medium height to tall, the harness holes are too low to safely use. Could also be mounted on the BMW power sliders with the R-9292.

[rantarM3]

Here you go:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809730

Forgot about the side airbags, which you’ll lose with a racing seat.

The passenger OC3 sensor is built into the OEM seat bottom, and appears to not be easily removed. It’s also very expensive. On top of that, you really won’t know if the swap works properly (i.e., whether the sensor mat is functioning as it should). If I were in need of a racing seat, I’d do only the driverr’s and leave the stock passenger seat alone or remove it altogether.

[ricardofors68]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If you want heated, tilt, reclining, they aren’t really race seats. What about a quality aftermarket seat like Recaro Sportster CS or Sparco SPX?

Agreed, stand corrected. I have been looking at those two specific seats as viable options.

Originally Posted by DSilk

I'm not sure that you aren't defeating the purpose of a racing seat by adding your requirements. Apart from providing proper support (which a high-end Recaro will do), the race seat has 2 advantages. First it saves weight, a benefit you effectively eliminate by adding back power adjustments. Second, it is designed to accept a 5 point race harness, which requires removal of the existing 3 point harness and substitution with a properly anchored 5 point harness, which effectively eliminates the real-world utility of the left rear seat.

In the track day org that I will be driving with, if you have race seats then, like you clearly stated, will need the other support items like 5pt or better harness and the correct way to anchor it, at this point I don't want to use a harness bar as it will add more steps into converting from dd to track back to dd.

Originally Posted by Obioban

Recaro Sport Toplines attached to your OE sliders with Brey Krause's R-9292 mounts.

Comes from Recaro with heating, ventilation, leather, and power back rest. Using the R-9292 you can mounted it on your factory BMW power slider.

Not the lightest setup out there, but lighter and more supportive than stock!

If you can live with a manual backrest, you could do the sportster CS-- you can get it from Recaro with seat heating (not cooling AFAIK). But, if you're medium height to tall, the harness holes are too low to safely use. Could also be mounted on the BMW power sliders with the R-9292.

Hmm, my dimensions might not let me consider that set up (6-2 /250lbs)

Originally Posted by rantarM3

Here you go:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809730

Forgot about the side airbags, which you’ll lose with a racing seat.

The passenger OC3 sensor is built into the OEM seat bottom, and appears to not be easily removed. It’s also very expensive. On top of that, you really won’t know if the swap works properly (i.e., whether the sensor mat is functioning as it should). If I were in need of a racing seat, I’d do only the driverr’s and leave the stock passenger seat alone or remove it altogether.

My thought process was to acquire more seat grip, to avoid sliding or moving too much while on the track, I guess me considering a race seat is beyond the scope of the potential use of the vehicle at this point.

I appreciate everybody's input, thank you.

With all these points well made, seems like I need to re think what I need vs. what I think I want.
I could upgrade my current seats by reupholstering the seats and possibly use the 4pt quick fit system or;
swap seats with units offered by Recaro, Sparco, etc which will offer higher level of support and will allow me to keep the useful functions of a daily driven car seat.

Went out to get a quote of the reupholster job; $2700 for the front and why not, the rear seat to copy the comp seat with suede.
The Recaro CS seats are around $4k or $6k depending on options, etc.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

Here you go:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809730

Forgot about the side airbags, which you’ll lose with a racing seat.

The passenger OC3 sensor is built into the OEM seat bottom, and appears to not be easily removed. It’s also very expensive. On top of that, you really won’t know if the swap works properly (i.e., whether the sensor mat is functioning as it should). If I were in need of a racing seat, I’d do only the driverr’s and leave the stock passenger seat alone or remove it altogether.

Recaro offers seats with side impact airbags, if he wanted to retain that functionality.

The seat mounting solution in that thread looks pretty similar to the brey krause R-9292.

Personally, I'd just code the seat occupancy sensor off. It'll cost more to keep than you'll save in non blown airbags in a crash (which is isn't only function-- not blowing an airbag in a crash if nobody is in the seat), so silly to try to preserve it.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by ricardofors68

Agreed, stand corrected. I have been looking at those two specific seats as viable options.



In the track day org that I will be driving with, if you have race seats then, like you clearly stated, will need the other support items like 5pt or better harness and the correct way to anchor it, at this point I don't want to use a harness bar as it will add more steps into converting from dd to track back to dd.


Hmm, my dimensions might not let me consider that set up (6-2 /250lbs)


My thought process was to acquire more seat grip, to avoid sliding or moving too much while on the track, I guess me considering a race seat is beyond the scope of the potential use of the vehicle at this point.

I appreciate everybody's input, thank you.

With all these points well made, seems like I need to re think what I need vs. what I think I want.
I could upgrade my current seats by reupholstering the seats and possibly use the 4pt quick fit system or;
swap seats with units offered by Recaro, Sparco, etc which will offer higher level of support and will allow me to keep the useful functions of a daily driven car seat.

Went out to get a quote of the reupholster job; $2700 for the front and why not, the rear seat to copy the comp seat with suede.
The Recaro CS seats are around $4k or $6k depending on options, etc.

I went with Cobra Nogaros. They are a fixed back bucket, but they're designed to minimize most of the compromises normally associated with fixed back seats on the street.

I had factory BMW seat heaters installed in them, so the stock controls still work. I have them attached to BMW sliders with the Brey Krause mounts, which lets me keep the factory pre tensioner seat belt receiver. I'm 6'4, and the harness pass through holes (which are optional, so make sure to get them if you're going to use harnesses) are at a good height.

The Nogaros are fixed back, so back seat access is reduced, but they're more accessible that you might think because the BMW sliders have a ton of travel-- more than twice as much as Recaro/etc sliders.

While not as supportive as a full race bucket, the lower seat sides on the Nogaro mean that getting into and out of the car is much less of a PITA than other fixed back buckets, and that the factory 3 point receiver is still well positioned (not true of many other fixed back situations).

[ricardofors68]

Yet another great option, thanks Obioban.

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Recaro offers seats with side impact airbags, if he wanted to retain that functionality.

The seat mounting solution in that thread looks pretty similar to the brey krause R-9292.

Personally, I'd just code the seat occupancy sensor off. It'll cost more to keep than you'll save in non blown airbags in a crash (which is isn't only function-- not blowing an airbag in a crash if nobody is in the seat), so silly to try to preserve it.

I think the Recaros with a side airbag option are limited to certain models only, right? Like the Sportster CS?

And I agree that it does not make financial sense to try and retrofit the OC3 mat - especially because you'll never know whether it is properly functioning until you need it. Even with the coding, though, I'd never let anyone sit in an aftermarket passenger seat because the airbag will always inflate full-force irrespective of the passenger's weight. It's just asking for trouble, IMO, but I understand everyone has different risk tolerances.

[ricardofors68]

Might as well save a bit more a go hunt a set of bmw performance seats...

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

I think the Recaros with a side airbag option are limited to certain models only, right? Like the Sportster CS?

And I agree that it does not make financial sense to try and retrofit the OC3 mat - especially because you'll never know whether it is properly functioning until you need it. Even with the coding, though, I'd never let anyone sit in an aftermarket passenger seat because the airbag will always inflate full-force irrespective of the passenger's weight. It's just asking for trouble, IMO, but I understand everyone has different risk tolerances.

That’s how all airbags worked for a long time

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

That’s how all airbags worked for a long time

But not anymore, and for good reasons. I’m only trying to give the OP information on things he may not have thought about originally. Regardless of how airbags used to work, changing the way in which it may deploy in your car opens the door to potential civil liability (for a passenger’s airbag related injuries) and denial of coverage issues. That’s all I’m trying to say.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

But not anymore, and for good reasons. I’m only trying to give the OP information on things he may not have thought about originally. Regardless of how airbags used to work, changing the way in which it may deploy in your car opens the door to potential civil liability (for a passenger’s airbag related injuries) and denial of coverage issues. That’s all I’m trying to say.

I actually don't think you're correct.

I believe the occupancy sensor is exactly that-- it determines if there's an occupant in the seat, and nothing else. If there is, airbag. If not, no airbag.

I believe the speed of the deployment is determined by the speed of the crash.

With the rate at which they fail (most cars have them fail by 100,000-150,000 miles) and the enormous expense of replacing them, BMW would be exposing themselves to a lot of failed safety systems, otherwise.

Dual-Stage Airbags

Your front airbags are dual-stage airbags. This means they have two inflation stages that can be ignited sequentially or simultaneously, depending on crash severity.

In a more severe crash, both stages will ignite simultaneously to provide the quickest and greatest protection.

In a less severe crash, one stage will ignite first, then the second stage will ignite a split second later. This provides longer airbag inflation time with a little less force.


Dual-Threshold Airbags

Your front airbags are also dual threshold airbags. Airbags with this feature have two deployment thresholds that depend on whether or not the occupant is wearing a seat belt.

If the occupant’s belt is not latched, the airbag will deploy at a slightly lower threshold, because the occupant would need extra protection.

If the occupant’s belt is latched, the airbag will inflate at a slightly higher threshold, when the airbag would be needed to supplement the protection provided by the seat belt.

^nothing about the seat occupancy sensor being used to determine the weight of the passenger in deployment speed.

That said, I wouldn't put anyone you don't want the airbag going off in front of (children) in the passenger seat, since it will go off every time. But, you're already not supposed to put kids in the front seat for that reason, so not sure what that changes...

[ricardofors68]

Well, unless I can sacrifice the car and convert it to a track only vehicle, seems like I will refrain from installing race seats then. I'll either re finish them in something less slippery or pony up for something like the BMW Performance seats