Future BMW 3 Series and up all to become plug-in hybrids?

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Law

Interesting you bring it up because one of the reason the automobile became popular was that it solved the problem of horse pollution in urban centers during the 19th century and early 20th century.

Now its car exhaust emissions & safety. Same old story; history often repeats itself. There's gonna be issues with electric drivetrains as well we have just yet to see it.

Renderings look awesome


The problems with electric will be pedestrians being run over by near silent vehicles :


Battery issues whilst not solved are being worked upon by companies, I saw some demo somewhere of a guy who had an organic material based battery on a phone that charged in 3 minutes...

[FilipMPower]

Okay, this is my point: AWD is going to be a mess. Think about how nose heavy the car will be with the Engine, the electric motor and gearbox. "Oh the electric motor will be in the back, its gonna be perfect!" No it wont. Personally, rear engine would be a dream, and electric motor in the front, like the i8, a nice balance. Oh, but you forgot... rear engine ruins any luggage space, and when did a front trunk ever offer good loading space? Oh, so fine, rear electric motor? Well, I think it would be idiotic to have the engine be weaker than the E-Motor, so it will probably be 2:1 in power, engine to e-motor, like the i8. I dont want a FWD biased car, where the engine powers front, and e-motor back, if I wanted that, I'd buy an audi. "Oh, the front engine will power rear wheels, and the e-motor the front ones, doesnt matter where the engines are placed!" It does matter. You would have to transmit power to the front and rear, which means like +160 KG weight, which is bad, and if BMW is going to go all fiasco about CF, at least make the new cars lighter than the older, not the same!!! And dont get me started on problems primarly in europe, where the f will you charge your car if you dont have a house and dont live in the center of the cities with various electric parking spaces and nonsense. And what if the car is empty? Youd have to charge 30 mins minimum, and running petrol/diesel alone is nonsense. So this is complete nonsense to me. If BMW manage however to make it work, I can say with confidence that this will be a hit! Especially if they can somehow make it rear engine

[wahoo]

Originally Posted by ecleland

Ha Ha. So much symbolism over substance with the environment benefits of plug-in hybrids (coal fired cars).

1. How any new power plants and associated infrastructure need to be built?

2. Do we have a clue about the environment impact of batter technology? Not convinced its that much better than oil at this point. Can't wait to see the formation of Organization of Lithium Exporting Countries

I am not against new technology at and believe this my be something that will appeal to me but don't tell me that environmentally its that much better and gas which continues to become more efficient. I hope BMW isn't putting too many eggs in the plug-in basket, letting current tech suffer or turning everything into plag-ins because it may very well not be the future especially when some guy figures out how to turn salt water into fuel

You need to do some reading on battery manufacturing and disposal then...

[BD SM3RF]

Originally Posted by wahoo

You need to do some reading on battery manufacturing and disposal then...

Thanks for what is a great suggestion but I already read plenty. The battery challenge is a big one and any amount of reading will reflect that. I was only half joking about the sodium battery. http://www.technologyreview.com/news...nergy-storage/

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

I agree with this. There has long been a reverse snobbery associated with BMW. In 1972, I drove my new 3.0CS to an early meeting of the L.A. chapter of BMW CCA at a resturant near U.S.C. All the guys there drove 1600s and 2002s and they thought I was "soft" driving the 6 cylinder and they had little in common with me. It was my last meeting, too.

As you can tell from my signature, I've had a lot of BMWs, but maybe only the Z4 among them is considered to be "real" by the reverse snobs (although I think the M6 counts, too). The i8 has been revelatory. It is, indeed, the future. And the i8 has a lot of BMW DNA in it.

BMW's future will be hybrid and eventually all electric (unless one day we have cold fusion, but not in any of our lifetimes).

Nice. You have owned a lot of BMWs, that's awesome.

[Diver]

Yikes.

[tallshortguy]

If it is saying that hybrid versions are coming then yes, if they're actually dumb enough to suggest all BMW 3 series will be hybrids and only hybrids then they're complete morons. They would lose almost all their sales in the US. 2022 is not enough time for the US market to favor hybrids over gas engines.

[IcemanNorway]

I cannot understand some of the negative comments about hybrid. Have you guys that thinks negative about plugin hybrid really understood how this works? It's not like the normal engine is a range extender for the batteries. A plugin hybrid has
the electrical motor in addition to the normal engine. This makes the car super fast due to the high tourque of the electrical motor. It's almost like saying I don't like turbo. I assume most will agree that a turbo system is a good idea. The same will be with the hybrid system. As seen on the Audi and Golf the el system doesn't need take to much space either. As a benefit, you can commute to and back from work using only the el system more or less for free, admission free also. How can anyone not like and be enthusiastic about this?

I mean what would you like have:
- 5.0 V8 400 HP, 300 lbs normal aspirating engine or,
- 3.0 R6 400 HP, 380 lbs turbo charged engine or,
- 2.0 R4 300 HP + 100 HP El motor, 580 lbs

Last option uses half the fuel compared to first, is quicker and can drive on el motor for shorter distance more or less for free.

[cartaa100]

As good as the EU emission regulations are great for the environment and future, i feel as if they are playing a major part in ruining the performance car league!

[MalibuBimmer]

My hybrid BMW is awesome. All of you naysayers will be on board come 2022.

[rolltidef32]

Car looks great, but AWD standard? The end of the enthusiast driver countdown begins. Many say it started with the F platform, I disagree, but electric cars are not very fun, no matter what the torque can do.

I like the sound of an engine, I like the smell of combustion; just won't be the same. However, the world has changed, so I won't find progress.

Assume 120 years ago, guys were saying they'd never give up their horse...

[peteh2]

Originally Posted by Golden Arrow

Georgia resident here. What do you mean "basically free?"

Here's a good place to start to see what he means:

http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-b...#__federated=1

In essence, GA gives you a $5K tax incentive on the purchase or lease of a full EV. Particularly relevant to a lease as you get the $5K regardless of the length of the lease.

And many leases bake into the lease the federal incentive so you're not leaving that on the table (Nissan, Ford, etc).

Article speaks to leasing a Nissan Leaf but works for any EV. I'm leasing a Ford Focus Electric and my net payment is right around $100/month. Electricity is cheap in GA. Mtd I've used about 100 KWH's of additional electricity, or about $5.

Cheers!

[E90beemerfan]

Originally Posted by rolltidef32

Car looks great, but AWD standard? The end of the enthusiast driver countdown begins. Many say it started with the F platform, I disagree, but electric cars are not very fun, no matter what the torque can do.

I like the sound of an engine, I like the smell of combustion; just won't be the same. However, the world has changed, so I won't find progress.

Assume 120 years ago, guys were saying they'd never give up their horse...

+1

Warning! This got a little longer than I expected. Feel free to skip this part

Battery technology will continue to develop for sure. The question is how quickly. In a way I think today we are spending too much money on subsidizing all electric vehicles before the battery technology is ready for it. We already depend on batteries in most electric accessories and the technology will continue to develop even without the car industry electrifying all their vehicles.

Using hybrid cars in densely populated areas make sense since you can drive without emissions where needed and take advantage of the long range from the combustion engine on longer runs. In rural areas this is not needed since a few cars with combustion engines will not bother anyone. My point is that even though hybrids make sense for some, for others it will not. Then it is better using a car with combustion engine, cheaper to produce, lighter and more agile. We need alternatives!

I think one of the problems today is that all focus is on CO2 and not other pollution that may be worse. I believe most people out there do not know how much energy, chemicals and organic recourses are needed to produce a battery package to let's say the Tesla Model S. Please enlighten me if you know.

It seems like the climate scientists have concluded that CO2 is our biggest threat before even proving how big effect this in reality has got on global temperature increase. What is a fact is that CO2 has less effect on global warming than previously claimed. Why has the global temperature increase slowed down the last decade? The CO2 increase from human activity has increased substantially.

My point by mentioning the above is that using global temperature increase as a threat to reduce energy consumption globally is not good in the long run. The result may be that more people are suffering over a longer period of time because the money is not spent wisely. Take the big cities in many African countries as an example. The pollution is terrible and people are dying younger because of it. At the same time, in the wealthy part of the world, we are spending billions on subsidising electric cars to feel good and convince our selves that we are saving the environment.

The truth is that spending this money wisely (f. example supporting poor countries building good public infrastructure) could reduce global consumption, improve the lives to millions of people and improve over all development.

In the rich part of the world, consumption may be controlled through taxes on petrol, natural gas and diesel and higher taxes on what is polluting more (I'm not thinking of CO2). Electric cars is a good alternative in cities, but the battery technology is not ready to replace combustion engines in all cars. I'm confident that most cities in Europe would have better air quality if CO2 had not been a factor when considering pollution from combustion engines. The result is that more people then needed are suffering today.

Just saying

[IcemanNorway]

Article translated by google auto translate, so the the English is probable not very correct, nor am mine...

Article:
The electric car is simply not as environmentally friendly , writes the author.
DN 18 June writes Kjetil B. Alstadheim about electric cars until 2050. The electric car is simply not so environmentally friendly.

Production of electric vehicles require large amounts of energy to casting , melting, processing and transportation. Manufacture of batteries require extensive mining for recovering lithium, copper and a variety of so-called rare earth metals.

An electric vehicle in operation is virtually emission free if the electricity produced by renewable sources such as hydroelectric, wind and sun, but if the power produced by coal , oil or natural gas means CO2p polution. Different reports show that the production of an electric car will cause emissions in the order of 13 tonnes of CO2. If we assume mileage of 8000 km a year and that battery life is eight years , it means that before the use of the electric car , the emissions spread over the vehicle lifetime already up in 200 grams of CO2 per kilometer.

In Norway produced much electricity by hydropower and one should therefore believe that hence there is no CO2 emissions. But since Norway is linked to Europe in a power network, marginal producer may at worst be a coal power plant.

If we use electricity to drive an electric car in Norway, Europe must produce equivalent power from a coal power plant. Assuming an electric vehicle requires about 0.20 kWh per kilometer and that produce electricity from a coal results in emissions of approximately 900 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour , it means that the use of electric vehicles involves 180 grams of CO2 per kilometer.

We add together the CO2 emissions from production and use of electric vehicles we are up in the order of 380 grams of CO2 per kilometer. A regular gasoline has to Compare emissions in the order 130 grams of CO2 per kilometer.

The electric car thus leads to three times as much emissions from a conventional gasoline vehicle .

//

So I'm all up for hybrid cars purely based on high performance and low local emission and cost by driving short trips. A high power std car have huge taxes with us thus a hybrid car is taxed based on the combustion engine only.

[s3baman]

I have to say I'm not a big fan of this proposal. I strongly believe that hydrogen is still the better alternative because it keeps the ICE behaviour more or less. Also, you don't have as much added weight which to me is a big plus when it comes to having an enjoyable driving experience.

All that being said, the current 3er should look like the render

[Golden Arrow]

Originally Posted by peteh2

Here's a good place to start to see what he means:

http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/atlanta-b...#__federated=1

In essence, GA gives you a $5K tax incentive on the purchase or lease of a full EV. Particularly relevant to a lease as you get the $5K regardless of the length of the lease.

And many leases bake into the lease the federal incentive so you're not leaving that on the table (Nissan, Ford, etc).

Article speaks to leasing a Nissan Leaf but works for any EV. I'm leasing a Ford Focus Electric and my net payment is right around $100/month. Electricity is cheap in GA. Mtd I've used about 100 KWH's of additional electricity, or about $5.

Cheers!

Thanks for the link!

[imserious]

Getting scary close to Lexus design.

[M3thodical]

I for one hope that all models are not hybrid or electric. Too quiet for me and this is just my opinion I guess but I just love the sound of certain motors, especially a tuned V8 or V10. I feel much more connected to gas powered vehicles. I've driven electric cars and even worked on the electric project car back in college. They are cool as hell but very foreign feeling and I certainly don't feel that connection with the electric/hybrid vehicles. Some love it though, too each their own

[FogCityM3]

What is interesting about C02 and fleet mileage legislation is lawmakers/regulators chose to target emissions and not actual bhp or weight. Problem is bhp is ever increasing, which is a good thing for enthusiasts but if the real goal is to reduce emissions and improve mileage, there is no need for bhp to keep increasing beyond a certain point. Thus far, the response by mass manufacturers has been turbo charging or weight reduction and now hybrids, but bhp keeps on increasing, which is kind of perpetuating the problem that these engine technologies were designed to "solve".

Also, places like Europe or Japan have much higher population densities and good public transportation alternatives (high speed rail, made possible only by higher densities). In a large country like the US, where population centers occur over widespread areas, the technology will need to be there to get to those distances. It seems like the Euro manufacturers are beholden to more restrictions and may not be producing as many vehicles that meet US requirements for longer-distance commute and travel times. Also, the marginal power producer in every US market is a fossil fuel powered plant and will likely be the case as natural gas is abundant and cheap. Its going to take a while for solar to put a big dent in this, as storage is a problem, costs are high relative to natural gas, and it is weather dependent. Performance cars may no longer be "global market cars" and you are starting to see this with some interesting/exciting offerings from US manufacturers. We may be looking to Ford, GM, Chrysler to fill the needs of diehard internal combustion fans for the next couple of model generations.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

If it is saying that hybrid versions are coming then yes, if they're actually dumb enough to suggest all BMW 3 series will be hybrids and only hybrids then they're complete morons. They would lose almost all their sales in the US. 2022 is not enough time for the US market to favor hybrids over gas engines.

Unless most/all new cars from any brand is a hybrid by then...

[matbl]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Inevitable.

About time.
Too bad you will keep the explosion engine though. Better to go all the way, or at least provide the option to do that...

[marcva]

Acura NSX another wimpy hybrid. Times, they are a changin...