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      01-04-2021, 10:22 PM   #1
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Chaos theory and fractals

I've always thought that our concept of a "universe" was thinking too small. Watched a BBC special on chaos theory and fractals. I can't do the math, but what if our universe is merely part of a larger fractal and all of the unexplained dark matter and energy is just a result of our interaction with a much larger fractal universe?

I also wonder why we haven't unified Newtonian physics with quantum physics. We are struggling to do that with a unified equation, but what if it is much simpler? A clockwork universe makes little sense to me, but one governed by simple equations with complex outcomes certainly does.

Just some random thoughts that popped into my brain.
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      01-04-2021, 10:53 PM   #2
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I'm freaked that the human brain network of neurons closely matches the universe web of galaxies. 100-billion neurons = 100-billion galaxies
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      01-04-2021, 10:54 PM   #3
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      01-05-2021, 12:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
I've always thought that our concept of a "universe" was thinking too small. Watched a BBC special on chaos theory and fractals. I can't do the math, but what if our universe is merely part of a larger fractal and all of the unexplained dark matter and energy is just a result of our interaction with a much larger fractal universe?

I also wonder why we haven't unified Newtonian physics with quantum physics. We are struggling to do that with a unified equation, but what if it is much simpler? A clockwork universe makes little sense to me, but one governed by simple equations with complex outcomes certainly does.

Just some random thoughts that popped into my brain.
Your first paragraph sadly is incoherent to me as is. Multiverse theories do exist but these other universes have no effect on ours in the ones I'm aware of.

Regarding quantum physics - we have very well unified it with Newtonian physics. The problem is with unifying it with General relativity and large curvatures of space-time. Many very smart people are thinking about this problem, but ultimately we will need an experiment, and that's just not happening any time soon.
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      01-05-2021, 10:46 AM   #5
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"He's been depressed. All of a sudden he can't do anything."
"Why are you depressed, Alvie?"
"Tell Dr. Flicker. It's something he read."
"The universe is expanding...."
"What is that your business! You're here in Brooklyn; Brooklyn is not expanding!"
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      01-06-2021, 02:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneya View Post
Your first paragraph sadly is incoherent to me as is. Multiverse theories do exist but these other universes have no effect on ours in the ones I'm aware of.
I'm thinking along the lines of making the transition from the "universe" as we think we know it to a much bigger universe. Not a multiverse or parallel universe theory, just that what we think is the universe is actually part of something much, much bigger. Kindof like when we discovered other galaxies.

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Originally Posted by Noneya View Post
Regarding quantum physics - we have very well unified it with Newtonian physics. The problem is with unifying it with General relativity and large curvatures of space-time. Many very smart people are thinking about this problem, but ultimately we will need an experiment, and that's just not happening any time soon.
Agree. My hope is that the unification will result in eliminating the speed limit of c. I think we should be able to travel large distances without the artificial restriction of c. I don't think we will break the rules, just bend them, quite literally. Then we can travel to other galaxies and really see what's out there. I would love to be around 1,000 years from now to see what we come up with. Hopefully we haven't destroyed ourselves by then.
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      01-06-2021, 03:23 PM   #7
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Somewhere last night, as my blood sugar levels plummeted to a reading of "LO" according to my cgm, I awoke to visions of all the converging multiple fractals, coalescing into the nightstand, and the dog needing to go outside.

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      01-06-2021, 03:47 PM   #8
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There are a lot of different theories which describe universe in much more crazy way, so every point of view can be true.
About physics its really easy, just a Newtonian physics it's a special case when object is rather big and move slowly, that's why it needed special formulas to connect one with other
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      01-06-2021, 04:42 PM   #9
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      01-06-2021, 09:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
...My hope is that the unification will result in eliminating the speed limit of c. I think we should be able to travel large distances without the artificial restriction of c. I don't think we will break the rules, just bend them, quite literally. Then we can travel to other galaxies and really see what's out there. I would love to be around 1,000 years from now to see what we come up with. Hopefully we haven't destroyed ourselves by then.
...the likelyhood that c is an artificial limit is quite low at this point, but that should have little effect on our ability to traverse vast distances if we can survive long enough as a species in theory as einstein-rosen have postulated.

But the reality is likely we would never survive, just look at where we are now, whats the likelihood of surviving another thousand years, either we’ll destroy ourselves or a really big rock will hit us, my odds are 50/50.

Just consider the estimated age of the universe, then consider the age of the sun and earth. Then consider the fortune to be hit so early in our planetary development just right to survive and create our moon, quite likely the catalyst for our survival. Then think of all the great extinctions that have had to occur to allow a tiny mammal to survive and evolve to the beings we find ourselves.

Then consider if there were some other world in this galaxy or beyond that followed a similar fate, except they only needed 4 great extinction events vs the 5 we required and they had millions of more years to develop.

If humans survive another 65 million years, do u think we would be everywhere in the universe? Or even 5 million years?

Either there is the great conspiracy that goverments are hiding all the evidence, or its technicially impossible to traverse vast distances through space and time, or its not possible for a species to survive long enough to develop the technology.

1,000 years is a mere second in universal time.
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      01-06-2021, 10:04 PM   #11
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      01-06-2021, 10:50 PM   #12
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      01-07-2021, 01:32 AM   #13
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      01-07-2021, 12:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
I'm thinking along the lines of making the transition from the "universe" as we think we know it to a much bigger universe. Not a multiverse or parallel universe theory, just that what we think is the universe is actually part of something much, much bigger. Kindof like when we discovered other galaxies.



Agree. My hope is that the unification will result in eliminating the speed limit of c. I think we should be able to travel large distances without the artificial restriction of c. I don't think we will break the rules, just bend them, quite literally. Then we can travel to other galaxies and really see what's out there. I would love to be around 1,000 years from now to see what we come up with. Hopefully we haven't destroyed ourselves by then.
You may hope of course, but there is no indication that the speed of light is ever going to go away or that there is anything "artificial" about it - it follows from fundamental symmetry of our spacetime that time and space can be "rotated" into one another. Your best hope is "cheating" it by creating wormholes, but (energy requirements + containing instability issues aside) that would require getting to your final destination the "slow" way at least once.

In the realm of hopes - a more realistic hope is for you to just live long enough that the "slow" travel doesn't matter.
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      01-07-2021, 12:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
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You may hope of course, but there is no indication that the speed of light is ever going to go away or that there is anything "artificial" about it - it follows from fundamental symmetry of our spacetime that time and space can be "rotated" into one another. Your best hope is "cheating" it by creating wormholes, but (energy requirements + containing instability issues aside) that would require getting to your final destination the "slow" way at least once.

In the realm of hopes - a more realistic hope is for you to just live long enough that the "slow" travel doesn't matter.
You're probably right. I do like thinking about the possibilities, though. What happens in Andromeda stays in Andromeda.
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      01-07-2021, 01:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
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.But the reality is likely we would never survive, just look at where we are now, whats the likelihood of surviving another thousand years, either we’ll destroy ourselves or a really big rock will hit us, my odds are 50/50.
In 1000 years, all our eggs won't be in just one basket. So the rock would have to wipe the solar system. OR, some other race would have to be threatened enough that we did expand out into other planets in our own solar system, and then come blast our species.

Now, nuclear detonations before we get to Moon/Mars, yeah that's in the 50/50 realm.
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      01-07-2021, 02:46 PM   #17
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Interesting thread. Glad to see other deep thinkers on here. Deterministic chaos is how I've always thought of our universe, however; clockwork can not be ruled out. I, myself, am not a believer of the driving force behind a clockwork universe; although experiences have shown me otherwise. Quantum physics tends to send me back to chaos theory though.

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