What should I do? Fix it, or get rid of it?

[Scythe17]

Ok Imma try and keep this as brief as I can. My e93 is a wonderful car, but has been a constant flow of money sucking issues since day one. I get it fixed and something else breaks in the worst way possible. And always includes the most expensive parts needed it seems. For example:

First issue 0-month of ownership 85k miles: Roof rattles like a metal bar is tapping against a hollow wood block [i've tried everything, now I just live with it], headlight on passenger side wobbles, fixed with a hidden piece of rubber trim I glued down below it.

First of the major issues 90K miles: Wheel hop, destroyed axle, slammed it into diff, broke diff cover casting, destroyed rear driveshaft joint, AND bent the rear subframe. All replaced with used but good, tested parts (new driveshaft though).

Second Major issue 110K miles: Valve cover gaskets leaking badly, control arms needed replacing. Alignment needed. saw images of the top end, looked SUPER healthy. Love to see it.

Around here a bomiz Race exhaust and bomiz valvetronic rear was put on the car, and Stage 2 tuned by AlpineMSS, Rad dude.

Third major issue 120K miles: Starter motor bad, and PCV valve bad, New battery installed. Replaced on my own (dear god this whole job sucked).

Upgraded Airfilter. Cuz why not? Its FCPEuro so next time its free. I'll get a good one.

Fourth major issue 130K miles: Alternator died, when it did it took out the very expensive FRM Module with it... for whatever reason.
At the same time I elected to get the rod bearings done and fix EVERYTHING since the front subframe needed to be dropped out anyway. So rod bearings, oil pan gasket, new (better) motor mounts (heat shielding on both sides). I also chose to do all new spark plugs. The shop did find other problems that got fixed: [oil filter housing cracked & leaking, bad subframe bushings].
Following this, another alignment needed.

Saw images of bottom end, SUPER healthy and happy engine. Only 1 pair rod bearing showing any copper and bearly. This engine should be SOLID.

Fifth major issue, Current day 149K miles: Cylinder 8 could take no more. Missing a big piece on the upper right corner of the piston, scored the block. Car needs a new engine.

Im currently above $11,000 into repairing this thing. Now It needs a new engine and that job is going to cost me anywhere from 8-18k depending on where I get it done and how.

Its a fully loaded manual M3 convertible, only option it doesn't have is the Electronic suspension. It's literally a dream spec M3 and I originally intended to keep this car as a daily driver and then keep it for many many years. Being that there's only a little over 1400 Manual e93s in the US/Canada and only about 13,000ish ever made, I figured the cost of repairs would be worth the trouble. But now... well...

What would you guys do? New engine? Is it worth it since EVERY other part of the drivetrain besides the transmission has been replaced? Would it be reliable after that?

OR should I throw in the towel, sell it broken, and just buy something with an LS in it that wont be such a damn problem child?

[SYT_Shadow]

LS engines also break, as anyone who goes to the track can testify to.

Selling a broken car is a money pit, you are probably better off buying a used engine from MPartsWorldwide for example and then selling or keeping a functioning car.

You've paid 11k to get to 150k miles. All cars need maintenance. Also, your engine failure is not at all common, that looks like detonation took out the cylinder.

[Scythe17]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

LS engines also break, as anyone who goes to the track can testify to.

Selling a broken car is a money pit, you are probably better off buying a used engine from MPartsWorldwide for example and then selling or keeping a functioning car.

You've paid 11k to get to 150k miles. All cars need maintenance. Also, your engine failure is not at all common, that looks like detonation took out the cylinder.

Fair point.

and yeah I know, any performance engine is gonna require some performance wallet to keep going (lol) but with an LS at least (and I've been around them my whole life), the parts themselves don't cost quite so much. let alone replacing an LS costs maybe 2,000-4,000 labor included as opposed to 8,000 to 16,000 for this thing.

My main problem is how seemingly every one of my issues that I've had is "Not common on these"... like the FRM, Rear end issue, and now this. Also this car has never seen the track, its daily driven with the occasional spirited press on the skinny pedal. I really don't beat on it much, and I baby it. So the real question is, should I be scared of these issues returning on a used engine? or have I just had really really REALLY bad luck so far with this one?

[Rich150001]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

LS engines also break, as anyone who goes to the track can testify to.

Selling a broken car is a money pit, you are probably better off buying a used engine from MPartsWorldwide for example and then selling or keeping a functioning car.

You've paid 11k to get to 150k miles. All cars need maintenance. Also, your engine failure is not at all common, that looks like detonation took out the cylinder.

Yeah I'd see how much a used engine would cost and re-evaluate. Keep in mind the rod bearing issue on e9x is very real, even if you were to get a replacement engine. You can buy a used e93 m3 for 20kish so not sure a brand new engine is really worth it.

[SYT_Shadow]

I would definitely do rod bearings on the used engine before putting it in.

Let me explain what I'm saying overall differently: if you don't do your own work, buying an 85k mile M3 is a HORRIBLE idea. I don't know what performance car can be bought used at 85k miles and taken to 150k miles for much less money, but certainly not an M3! (and in my opinion, no performance car on the planet)

With those costs you quote of the LSs, I have no idea what anyone is doing in an M3. Five years back, I paid $5k to have an engine pulled out of the car and then put back in. So if you can buy an LS engine and have the old one removed and the new one put in for 2-4k, definitely stay in that platform, because it sounds like someone is paying you between 1 and 3k to take their LS engine.

FRMs are common issues.
Valve cover gaskets are maintenance, and they fail in every single car sooner or later. 115k miles sounds pretty damn good to me!
You had one weird issue which is the axle hop topic.

There are some very long threads about predetonation on certain tunes, and that's all I'll say about that.

[Scythe17]

Originally Posted by Rich150001

Yeah I'd see how much a used engine would cost and re-evaluate. Keep in mind the rod bearing issue on e9x is very real, even if you were to get a replacement engine. You can buy a used e93 m3 for 20kish so not sure a brand new engine is really worth it.

Yeah that is one of my main things, I was honestly thinking "Welp, time to sleeve it and ready it for a supercharger" but that I was told was going to be 24K roughly to do. So at that point I could buy a whole other M3 if I wanted.

I've been digging around and the 6-8k range seems about average for a used 140k mile to 40K mile engines. Labor seems to revolve around 2-5k depending on the shop you ask. If I got a replacement engine, I would likely go to VAC Motorsport immediately to get the rod bearings done first. hell I could probably still use the ones on my old engine if I was really desperate minus the set on cylinder 8, they have less then 20k miles on em.

[Scythe17]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I would definitely do rod bearings on the used engine before putting it in.

Let me explain what I'm saying overall differently: if you don't do your own work, buying an 85k mile M3 is a HORRIBLE idea. I don't know what performance car can be bought used at 85k miles and taken to 150k miles for much less money, but certainly not an M3! (and in my opinion, no performance car on the planet)

With those costs you quote of the LSs, I have no idea what anyone is doing in an M3. Five years back, I paid $5k to have an engine pulled out of the car and then put back in. So if you can buy an LS engine and have the old one removed and the new one put in for 2-4k, definitely stay in that platform, because it sounds like someone is paying you between 1 and 3k to take their LS engine.

FRMs are common issues.
Valve cover gaskets are maintenance, and they fail in every single car sooner or later. 115k miles sounds pretty damn good to me!
You had one weird issue which is the axle hop topic.

There are some very long threads about predetonation on certain tunes, and that's all I'll say about that.

I intended to do the work myself but there are personal complications preventing that at the moment and the cost of the car have been affecting it to a degree. Also of course, I understand gaskets are maintenance, that's why I didn't list that as a "major" issue. But it was still a pricey job even though I had a friend do it way cheaper than at a real shop.

I knew it was gonna be an expensive thing early on, but I didn't expect it to be quite as extensive as it has been. When I bought it, I was under the impression that "Rod bearings, and throttle actuators" were the only real big ticket maintenance items I'd likely run into along side some small odds and ends like valve cover gaskets and PCV and in the convertible's case, potential for the cables to fray (not an issue Ive seen) and the headrest restraint wiring (my car does have this).

LS engines are significantly cheaper to own and maintain from what I have seen, like for 8 coils for an LS3 your looking at around 500 bucks, 480 bucks would get you 2 coils for an S65. It's that stuff that has me contemplating whether I should back out or not. Again I am taking your points into consideration, not trying to fight about which platform is better, I love both.

Mainly I'd just like some reassurance that S65s don't normally leave people stranded on the side of the road every 10k miles.

[SYT_Shadow]

At 150k miles, if you want reliability you should be looking at another car with fewer miles.

I've taken multiple BMWs to 180k miles, but they required plenty of maintenance to get there. They didn't leave me stranded ever

[Theodore2]

I'll take the counter point here. You've driven your M3 nearly 65k miles which is more miles than many members on here have driven their own M3, I'd call that a win right there. You sound miserably stressed out, I'd suggest selling the car as is, remove the source of the stress from your life and move on to a Toyota/Lexus product which will have a much more enjoyable ownership experience from a maintenance perspective, especially at higher miles.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Scythe17

Ok Imma try and keep this as brief as I can. My e93 is a wonderful car, but has been a constant flow of money sucking issues since day one. I get it fixed and something else breaks in the worst way possible. And always includes the most expensive parts needed it seems. For example:

First issue 0-month of ownership 85k miles: Roof rattles like a metal bar is tapping against a hollow wood block [i've tried everything, now I just live with it], headlight on passenger side wobbles, fixed with a hidden piece of rubber trim I glued down below it.

First of the major issues 90K miles: Wheel hop, destroyed axle, slammed it into diff, broke diff cover casting, destroyed rear driveshaft joint, AND bent the rear subframe. All replaced with used but good, tested parts (new driveshaft though).

Second Major issue 110K miles: Valve cover gaskets leaking badly, control arms needed replacing. Alignment needed. saw images of the top end, looked SUPER healthy. Love to see it.

Around here a bomiz Race exhaust and bomiz valvetronic rear was put on the car, and Stage 2 tuned by AlpineMSS, Rad dude.

Third major issue 120K miles: Starter motor bad, and PCV valve bad, New battery installed. Replaced on my own (dear god this whole job sucked).

Upgraded Airfilter. Cuz why not? Its FCPEuro so next time its free. I'll get a good one.

Fourth major issue 130K miles: Alternator died, when it did it took out the very expensive FRM Module with it... for whatever reason.
At the same time I elected to get the rod bearings done and fix EVERYTHING since the front subframe needed to be dropped out anyway. So rod bearings, oil pan gasket, new (better) motor mounts (heat shielding on both sides). I also chose to do all new spark plugs. The shop did find other problems that got fixed: [oil filter housing cracked & leaking, bad subframe bushings].
Following this, another alignment needed.

Saw images of bottom end, SUPER healthy and happy engine. Only 1 pair rod bearing showing any copper and bearly. This engine should be SOLID.

Fifth major issue, Current day 149K miles: Cylinder 8 could take no more. Missing a big piece on the upper right corner of the piston, scored the block. Car needs a new engine.

Im currently above $11,000 into repairing this thing. Now It needs a new engine and that job is going to cost me anywhere from 8-18k depending on where I get it done and how.

Its a fully loaded manual M3 convertible, only option it doesn't have is the Electronic suspension. It's literally a dream spec M3 and I originally intended to keep this car as a daily driver and then keep it for many many years. Being that there's only a little over 1400 Manual e93s in the US/Canada and only about 13,000ish ever made, I figured the cost of repairs would be worth the trouble. But now... well...

What would you guys do? New engine? Is it worth it since EVERY other part of the drivetrain besides the transmission has been replaced? Would it be reliable after that?

OR should I throw in the towel, sell it broken, and just buy something with an LS in it that wont be such a damn problem child?

Time to move on. Cry uncle, sell it broken, and buy the next set of wheels.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

LS engines also break, as anyone who goes to the track can testify to.

IDK, you can beat on em pretty hard and they are very happy.

But 150K is a lot of miles, most engines would be needing a rebuild at that point anyway.

[Rafichicago]

I’d calculate what makes more sense. Three options I see honestly.
Buy used engine throw it in and sell the car. Easier to sell running vehicle that one needing engine.
Sell the car as is and take a good bath in the process.
Buy used engine, go over it thoroughly put it in and enjoy.
Not really good situation to be in. It’ll be costly regardless. I own M car and AMG. Neither one is daily. I would never daily performance car and for many reasons. Good luck with whatever decision you’ll make. I wish labor would not be so ridiculous here in USA. We could enjoy cars we like for much longer.

[pbonsalb]

150k mile E93 M3 with a bad engine is not worth much. The E93 are less desirable since they have lower performance due to the added weight and less stiff chassis. I’d guess around $5k. It will cost the OP probably $12-15k to install a good used motor with fresh gaskets and rod bearings since he can’t DIY. Once he does that, he has a car that is probably worth $20k. Does it make sense to go through the hassle? Maybe just sell it to a DIYer.

Don’t know what to recommend for a replacement. Something newer, cheaper to repair, maybe with a warranty. I really enjoyed my E90 M3, kept it 10 years, DIYed tons of preventative maintenance including rod bearings, but it was time for a newer, higher performing, larger and more comfortable car. I bought another BMW that would be expensive to maintain out of warranty, but think the OP should either get one with a lot of warranty remaining or an aftermarket extended warranty, or buy a Lexus.

[86Zed]

I think your terminology of a MAJOR and MINOR issue are different than my own. Most of these are preventative maintenance items which are more cost effective when replaced ahead of the issue and failure of adjacent systems. $11-15K for 65K miles actually seems like a win on an aging V8 BMW that you entered at 85K miles and now a ten year old car.


I spent a whole lot more than that to take a daily driver E91 with an N52! from 90-150K. If you can't stomach the regular influx of cash time for a JDM or lower mile product.

[rcracin]

If it's worth 18k when you're done with it, I'd put it up for sale for $8k and see if anyone bites. Give it a month and if no luck, go ahead and fix it.

Past a certain mileage, I dont think an m3 is worth much with how much it costs to refresh. So at 150k you're looking at spending to enjoy it because you like it. You're not going to get a whole lot of resale out of it.

[pbonsalb]

It also may not go down much in value since it is fully depreciated. If you love the car, fix it and keep it and the value won’t drop much. But the OP is scared of future costs given what he has experienced so far, and that is reasonable. Who is to say the used replacement engine won’t fail in 3 years. He had replaced the rod bearings on the original motor and it still failed. Could happen again.

I sold my E90 M3 with 110k miles for $20k in 2021. I did the rod bearings at 60k myself and did a lot of other preventive maintenance along the way and a bunch of mods. The guy I sold it to is selling it now for $23k and it has 130k miles.

[Scythe17]

Engine rebuild in progress. It was decided the block can be saved... so send it I guess. There's just not many cars that fit the bill to replace it. Kinda cornered market when you want a Manual, V8, RWD, hardtop vert/roadster. There's really only a few under $80,000 which are this, the C7 Corvette... uh... that's about it. Cadillac XLR if you forfeit the Manual.

She's getting forged rods and pistons, New VAC Motorsport rod bearings and ARP hardware right away.

I bought a 1990 GMC Sierra to daily in the meantime, great truck, but like any old car you get with over 170k miles really cheap, it's not perfect, so it's also in the shop now... I think once both are fixed, the M3 will no longer be a daily. Idk maybe I'll supercharge or throw a turbo on it in a year or something.

EDIT (UPDATE): The truck is dead, 5.7 TBI Small Block Chevy died *at the shop* and you'll never guess how. *Pause for effect*... *INHALE*... Yep, it spun a rod bearing *smile*. Some kind of sick ironic joke am I right? At least replacing this engine only costs like 2-3k, engine included.

[rcracin]

who's building the motor?

[Scythe17]

Ok the E93 lives again. Engine was rebuilt by DM Performance in Wrightstown, NJ. Super nice guys there, time for a 500 mile break in, oil change, and then another 500 miles of babying her... then probably another 500 of me being scared of the skinny pedal.

For those curious about a general "so what happened, how'd it go", here you go, this is the short version.

Basically it melted a piece off piston 8, and was pretty much best case scenario. Only light scoring on the cylinder wall, able to be repaired. So, we rebuilt the motor.

Its now got Camillo Forged Rods and Pistons. And if anyone wants to buy a 1 of roughly 1400 manual e93's in all the US and Canada, that's fully optioned out (minus EDC) in black on black on black that is ready for supercharging, gimme a hollar lol. I'm probably going to move to a C7 Vette later on, so if you're down to trade its a really nice M3 with a TON of new life now breathed into it via almost all the dollar signs I could give it.

[Our03z4]

Originally Posted by Scythe17

Ok the E93 lives again. Engine was rebuilt by DM Performance in Wrightstown, NJ. Super nice guys there, time for a 500 mile break in, oil change, and then another 500 miles of babying her... then probably another 500 of me being scared of the skinny pedal.

For those curious about a general "so what happened, how'd it go", here you go, this is the short version.

Basically it melted a piece off piston 8, and was pretty much best case scenario. Only light scoring on the cylinder wall, able to be repaired. So, we rebuilt the motor.

Its now got Camillo Forged Rods and Pistons. And if anyone wants to buy a 1 of roughly 1400 manual e93's in all the US and Canada, that's fully optioned out (minus EDC) in black on black on black that is ready for supercharging, gimme a hollar lol. I'm probably going to move to a C7 Vette later on, so if you're down to trade its a really nice M3 with a TON of new life now breathed into it via almost all the dollar signs I could give it.

Glad you got it going again! Personally I wouldn't have any of these cars if I couldn't do the work my self. My Mini, just bought for a steal at $1k but knowing it needed $8k worth of work. Did it all myself for less than $2k and now I have a perfect running and driving car. Ducati ST3 needed $1400 clutch and some other things, bought the bike for $1k and found it was just a bad kickstand fuse lol. I try to buy the cars cheap (from people that can't do repairs) and fix them so when they break I don't feel bad but instead it gives me something to do.

Basically what I'm saying is high mileage German cars WILL need lots of work and they will break the bank if you can't do it yourself. I currently have 9 cars, mostly German, and rarely do they go to a shop.

How much did the engine repair cost?

[Scythe17]

Originally Posted by Our03z4

Glad you got it going again! Personally I wouldn't have any of these cars if I couldn't do the work my self. My Mini, just bought for a steal at $1k but knowing it needed $8k worth of work. Did it all myself for less than $2k and now I have a perfect running and driving car. Ducati ST3 needed $1400 clutch and some other things, bought the bike for $1k and found it was just a bad kickstand fuse lol. I try to buy the cars cheap (from people that can't do repairs) and fix them so when they break I don't feel bad but instead it gives me something to do.

Basically what I'm saying is high mileage German cars WILL need lots of work and they will break the bank if you can't do it yourself. I currently have 9 cars, mostly German, and rarely do they go to a shop.

How much did the engine repair cost?

I won't be disclosing the actual total price, as that would be unfair towards the shop that did the work, he's a good guy running his own shop. So with respect to the grind, I can say this, parts are parts. Minus the VAC rod bearing kit which I bought separately for the rebuild, parts alone are still gonna be over 8K for anyone trying to make sure it's done right (if you don't need cylinder heads, sleeves, or a new block). I will not discuss labor costs.

With that said, some advice to those who do blow up an S65 and *can't* do the job themselves: If you screw up a piston, and you also need either a new block, sleeves, or just 1 cylinder head; it may be wise to sell your shell and buy a whole different E9x M3.

[Our03z4]

Originally Posted by Scythe17

I won't be disclosing the actual total price, as that would be unfair towards the shop that did the work, he's a good guy running his own shop. So with respect to the grind, I can say this, parts are parts. Minus the VAC rod bearing kit which I bought separately for the rebuild, parts alone are still gonna be over 8K for anyone trying to make sure it's done right (if you don't need cylinder heads, sleeves, or a new block). I will not discuss labor costs.

With that said, some advice to those who do blow up an S65 and *can't* do the job themselves: If you screw up a piston, and you also need either a new block, sleeves, or just 1 cylinder head; it may be wise to sell your shell and buy a whole different E9x M3.

Fair enough and I understand. Good to know on the parts price for anyone who has a similar issue. I know my A8 is $26k for just the long block, thing would be parted out if that ever happens lol. Just hit the big 100k the other day but been a great car so far in the 50k miles I've owned it.

Enjoy your car!!!