How have acceleration times gotten so good just in the past 10 years?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

dyno doesn't tell you throttle response

when you punch it in a g80 the turbos aren't spooled. you are only getting a 3.0 liter 6 cylinder's power. after a short delay the exhaust gasses from the engine have spooled the turbo, which is causes it to compress air into the engine and now the engine can make more power

this is what turbo lag is.

This is exactly what is happening with the G80. By hitting it from a 5mph roll, you take away G80s ability to launch because you can't brake stall the torque converter to build boost for a killer launch. Rolling at 5mph and the G80 is caught in low rpms and off boost. There will be a noticeable lag before the turbos ramp up to compensate for lack of load against the motor.

Turbos need load to build full boost. It's also why turbos don't generate full boost in 1st gear. There's simply too much torque multiplication in 1st gear (i.e., less load on the motor to accelerate). Yes, the S58 can theoretically generate max boost below 2,000rpms, but in order for that to happen, the G80 would need to be in a tall gear. It ain't happening in 1st, especially from a 5mph roll. No amount of electronic wizardy can overcome this effect.

[2023G87M2]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

This is exactly what is happening with the G80. By hitting it from a 5mph roll, you take away G80s ability to launch because you can't brake stall the torque converter to build boost for a killer launch. Rolling at 5mph and the G80 is caught in low rpms and off boost. There will be a noticeable lag before the turbos ramp up to compensate for lack of load against the motor.

Turbos need load to build full boost. It's also why turbos don't generate full boost in 1st gear. There's simply too much torque multiplication in 1st gear (i.e., less load on the motor to accelerate). Yes, the S58 can theoretically generate max boost below 2,000rpms, but in order for that to happen, the G80 would need to be in a tall gear. It ain't happening in 1st, especially from a 5mph roll. No amount of electronic wizardy can overcome this effect.

Someone here should email and ask car and driver how they do it. They know about turbo lag. All this is speculation (in terms of how they do the testing). They may be doing it in a way that removes turbo lag from the picture. Might as well ask them

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 2023G87M2

Someone here should email and ask car and driver how they do it. They know about turbo lag. All this is speculation (in terms of how they do the testing). They may be doing it in a way that removes turbo lag from the picture. Might as well ask them

C&D and other mags written about this many times. The point of the test is to show real world power delivery and to also show just how some cars really need that launch to generate big acceleration numbers.

The test is simply to get the car rolling at 5mph and off throttle, then they floor it. They will use the most advantageous drive mode if needed to get max acceleration and in some autos, manually put it into 1st. Turbos tend to get stuck in a 0.5 second lag zone as the turbo(s) spring to life. Larger displacement naturally aspirated motors tend to fair better because the torque is there right from the start.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by chris719

Completely wrong if we are talking about actually new cars and 0-60. The first reply in this thread was correct and you can easily investigate the numbers yourself. You do not seem to understand how torque management and traction control work in modern cars.

Broadly correct if we are talking quarter mile in general or cars before 991.2 or G series BMWs.

Traction control is a SMALL part of it unless we're talking 700hp+ RWD cars.

The widespread usage of turbos, much improve turbo technology, the common use of AWD in most everything, and significantly better automatics with a ton of torque multiplication and lots of gears to keep the motor in it's powerband is why a majority of the reason why cars are so much quicker to 60 and faster overall. Tire technology and then traction control would be the other minor factors.

We get it, you're in auto industry with a focus on TC systems, but that doesn't mean you're right on this.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Traction control is a SMALL part of it unless we're talking 700hp+ RWD cars.

The widespread usage of turbos, much improve turbo technology, the common use of AWD in most everything, and significantly better automatics with a ton of torque multiplication and lots of gears to keep the motor in it's powerband is why a majority of the reason why cars are so much quicker to 60 and faster overall. Tire technology and then traction control would be the other minor factors.

We get it, you're in auto industry with a focus on TC systems, but that doesn't mean you're right on this.

Has little to do with the transmissions.

GR Supra manual puts up numbers that are extremely close to the 2022 automatic. Surely a 6 speed manual is not a recent development. Check the 5-60 times too. The 8 speed transmission shows barely any advantage until we look at the 0-100.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-manual-drive/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...upra-compared/

Or this one with 2 M2 Comps comparing DCT vs 6MT:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

The G cars including Supra are very easy to launch and in general don't spin nearly as easily if you put your foot down like the F8x and earlier. I was directly addressing the OP's ask as to why a G8x RWD is faster than a tuned F8x from a dig. The answer to that is the traction control and tires. S58 actually has more lag than S55. I don't work in automotive but the principles are the same.

Obviously it is not just one factor. There's many that add up. However, when we look at the OPs post asking about 335i RWD and F8x RWD to G8x RWD 0-60 times, traction control and tires are the main factor. He asked about the past 10 years. Ten years ago, the engines were just about the same. N54 was already just about phased out, N55 all over, and S55 about to launch. When I say the same, I mean same DI small turbo high midrange torque.

[RM7]

0-60 you can use the engine as a flywheel, especially with AWD.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

dyno doesn't tell you throttle response

when you punch it in a g80 the turbos aren't spooled. you are only getting a 3.0 liter 6 cylinder's power. after a short delay the exhaust gasses from the engine have spooled the turbo, which is causes it to compress air into the engine and now the engine can make more power

this is what turbo lag is.

ah i have a m340i so forgot about turbo lag.

but you remind me of my Subaru STi. peak torque at 4400rpm, mashing the gas pedal does nothing until it hits 3000, then the car moves, surges at 4000rpm, gone by 5000rpm slows down after that.

if you look at the chart, the subaru sti is turbo lag personified

[RM7]

Originally Posted by g21

ah i have a m340i so forgot about turbo lag.

but you remind me of my Subaru STi. peak torque at 4400rpm, mashing the gas pedal does nothing until it hits 3000, then the car moves, surges at 4000rpm, gone by 5000rpm slows down after that.

if you look at the chart, the subaru sti is turbo lag personified

5k awd clutch-drops are how subarus were “fast” for sure. I had one. Engine as a flywheel.

[TheWatchGuy]

most the items have been hit on in the thread.

more turbo'd cars so more torque up front, more auto cars with great trannies, just all around more powerful engines, and more manufacturers prioritizing acceleration off the line (since its one of the biggest selling points in non-enthusiasts buying "fast" cars)

i dont know how much of it has to do with improved traction control, and probably more to do with better tires. on 2 new cars, i notice a difference between TC off and on.

I have a tuned 2022 F150 ecoboost that will do 4 second flat 0-60s consistently and sub 4seconds with a perfect launch. with TC on, its in the 4.5 range

I also have a tuned 2021 genesis g70 that will do sub 3.5 0-60s regularly without launch control and TC. turn those on, and its a high 3 second 0-60

[G30M]

old vs new

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

i dont know how much of it has to do with improved traction control, and probably more to do with better tires. on 2 new cars, i notice a difference between TC off and on.

I have a tuned 2022 F150 ecoboost that will do 4 second flat 0-60s consistently and sub 4seconds with a perfect launch. with TC on, its in the 4.5 range

I also have a tuned 2021 genesis g70 that will do sub 3.5 0-60s regularly without launch control and TC. turn those on, and its a high 3 second 0-60

Not all traction control systems are created equally. My Genesis G80 5.0 pulled power long before it needed to, not even a hint of wheel spin.

My M760I will spin all 4 on launch, you can feel the car move slightly sideways on launch sometimes, and it stays squirrelly for at least 30'. It eeks out every bit of acceleration out of the available traction, which is a big ask for a 5200 pound car.

2 heavy sedans with good sized engines and TC, 2 different philosophies.

A car that doesn't feel a little loose at full throttle launch is holding back more acceleration than is needed. This is likely why turning it off on some cars gets better results. Turning it off on the genesis didn't help much because sheelspin was then a problem, though TC can never be fully turned off on that model either. There was no happy middle ground.

As to the transmission/gearing part of the equation, The M760I doesn't even use 1st gear. The only way to engage it is to manually downshift it to 1st. I've only done this once, and first is useless on this car. The car makes 590 ft/lb at 1500 RPM, it doesn't need it, and it's still a very quick car for its weight. Gearing is certainly part of the equation, but I don't believe it's a particularly big factor in the formula.

[G30M]

nothing i've ever had beats the initial throttle response of my 2013 Audi S4. i was on a gravel carpark. thought i'd stick it in manual and all TC off. touched the gas the the car threw itself 180 degrees and almost took out the entire fence 20 feet away.

none of my turbo BMWs can do that. even the EV doesn't do that.

that car was supercharged, DSG, factory stock. i wonder if the 5-60 for that car will match or better the 0-60. i timed launching and just mashing the pedal (didn't have my GPS timer at that time) and it was the same time.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by g21

nothing i've ever had beats the initial throttle response of my 2013 Audi S4. i was on a gravel carpark. thought i'd stick it in manual and all TC off. touched the gas the the car threw itself 180 degrees and almost took out the entire fence 20 feet away.

none of my turbo BMWs can do that. even the EV doesn't do that.

that car was supercharged, DSG, factory stock. i wonder if the 5-60 for that car will match or better the 0-60. i timed launching and just mashing the pedal (didn't have my GPS timer at that time) and it was the same time.

2013 S5 did a 5.1 with a manual

2022 CT4-V BW, manual, similar weight, +140hp ... did a 5.3

the supercharger response is instant and makes the car feel like it has a larger displacement. turbo's are laggy in the low rpm, its physics and can't be beat.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

2013 S5 did a 5.1 with a manual

2022 CT4-V BW, manual, similar weight, +140hp ... did a 5.3

the supercharger response is instant and makes the car feel like it has a larger displacement. turbo's are laggy in the low rpm, its physics and can't be beat.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

S5 is awd. This is where the 5-60s should be looked at, although below about 40 the awd is still going to have a huge advantage at putting down power. 1/4 mi trap speeds will be more indicative of higher end accel capabilities.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by RM7

S5 is awd. This is where the 5-60s should be looked at, although below about 40 the awd is still going to have a huge advantage at putting down power. 1/4 mi trap speeds will be more indicative of higher end accel capabilities.

not sure how much of a difference that is making here.

c&d tested both the awd g80 comp, and the rwd comp. they got 4.4 and 4.5 respectively.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

not sure how much of a difference that is making here.

c&d tested both the awd g80 comp, and the rwd comp. they got 4.4 and 4.5 respectively.

WTF, you are talking about different cars now?

[MG20i]

Multiple reasons, I think. Advancing tire tech, excellent traction control and/or launch control, and especially AWD.
It is NOT only power and torque. Not even primarily power and torque.
Case in point:

CT5-V Blackwing. 3.4-3.6 0-60, 4253lbs. 650+hp and a mountain of torque.

M550i. 3.5 0-60, 4175 lbs. 523 hp and 530ish torque.
Why isn't the Caddy faster? Traction.

And I think the Caddy runs it down in the 1/4. Because traction is no longer a factor.

[G30M]

guys for those who want to see turbo lag go to 5:30 the M440i pulls before the M4 in sport plus in 3rd gear at 50mph

[G30M]

2013 S5 is supercharged i believe, if that's the case it will have zero any lag.

i had a 2013 S4 and throttle response is instant.