[W///]

Originally Posted by Bemo

It's pretty ridiculous that BMW expects us to swing on M2's sausage and pay $60k while getting limited options and performances (i.e. black leather only). You keep saying that the manufacturing process is inflexible but for the amount of dough we are expected to pay, the options list and price range should be pretty extrnsive!
This car has its work cut out for itself.

The small color choices, that's on purpose. I'm assuming BMW wants to limit them just like they did for the 1M, E46 M3 CSL, E36 M3 LTW ect ect... They could probably do Valencia Orange and Estoril Blue if they want to, because that's already at factory. That's never been my argument and that's another issue completely that you guys are welcomed to argue about.

What I was talking about was the guy that wanted full Individual. Big difference. That's a completely different story. Same with options like HUD, B&O and full leather dash. For example, you would need to design an entirely new dash carrier and dash to accommodate that. Then chances are, you'd most likely have to crash test it too. Like I said in the other thread, it's far from simple, and not just a matter of cutting and pasting from another model.

Hope that kind of makes sense

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by W///

The small color choices, that's on purpose. I'm assuming BMW wants to limit them just like they did for the 1M, E46 M3 CSL, E36 M3 LTW ect ect... They could probably do Valencia Orange and Estoril Blue if they want to, because that's already at factory. That's never been my argument and that's another issue completely that you guys are welcomed to argue about.

What I was talking about was the guy that wanted full Individual. Big difference. That's a completely different story. Same with options like HUD, B&O and full leather dash. For example, you would need to design an entirely new dash carrier and dash to accommodate that. Then chances are, you'd most likely have to crash test it too. Like I said in the other thread, it's far from simple, and not just a matter of cutting and pasting from another model.

Hope that kind of makes sense

I hear what you're saying completely. While I can't comment on the supply chain or manufacturing processes, and the complexities that are introduced by the availability of an extensive list of "add on" options, quite a few folks have noted and are bothered by the prospect of having 4 limited exterior colors and a single leather interior.
Buying the car for its dynamics is equally important as having a tad more wiggle room to "customize" it, even if it includes Individual.
The fact that the Leipzig factory isn't currently setup to accommodate individual is an excuse. It can be upgraded!

Bottom line, if folks are willing to spend over MSRP for customization, BMW should do the prudent thing and facilitate ways to collect the cash!

[Surfaced]

Originally Posted by Bemo

It's pretty ridiculous that BMW expects us to swing on M2's sausage and pay $60k while getting limited options and performances (i.e. black leather only). You keep saying that the manufacturing process is inflexible but for the amount of dough we are expected to pay, the options list and price range should be pretty extrnsive!
This car has its work cut out for itself.

For real. $60k is Cayman (S) territory and Porsche has an overwhelming load of options for it. They'll even de-badge it for you.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Surfaced

For real. $60k is Cayman (S) territory and Porsche has an overwhelming load of options for it. They'll even de-badge it for you.

Are you insane? Yes, that gets you into a stripper Cayman S, but that has literally 0 option. Hell, rain sensors aren't even standard in the car ($700). Gotta play to pay.

Base vs base, I'll bet you there's a $10k difference between the M2 and the Cayman S.

[M3 Adjuster]

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=12

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Bemo

I hear what you're saying completely. While I can't comment on the supply chain or manufacturing processes, and the complexities that are introduced by the availability of an extensive list of "add on" options, quite a few folks have noted and are bothered by the prospect of having 4 limited exterior colors and a single leather interior.
Buying the car for its dynamics is equally important as having a tad more wiggle room to "customize" it, even if it includes Individual.
The fact that the Leipzig factory isn't currently setup to accommodate individual is an excuse. It can be upgraded!

Bottom line, if folks are willing to spend over MSRP for customization, BMW should do the prudent thing and facilitate ways to collect the cash!

And when it's NOT prudent because it's not economically feasible due to supply chain/ manufacturing processes as well as the complexities that are introduced by the availability of an extensive list of "add on" options.... you get 4 color choices and deal with it.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by W///

Are you insane? Yes, that gets you into a stripper Cayman S, but that has literally 0 option. Hell, rain sensors aren't even standard in the car ($700). Gotta play to pay.

Base vs base, I'll bet you there's a $10k difference between the M2 and the Cayman S.

I second that emotion! Just wandered over to the Porsche site for grins.. (and sticker shock!)

$52,600 base - Likely comparable in base price to the M2
$64,100 Cayman S
$75,200 Cayman GTS
$84,600 Cayman GT4


in comparison tests... the 1M was not pitted against the base Cayman ( $51 K base price for 2011 ) OR the Cayman S.. ($62K base price for 2011).
Nearly all of the comparison tests matched it with the Cayman R.. which is roughly equivalent to the Cayman GTS of today.

Originally Posted by Surfaced

For real. $60k is Cayman (S) territory and Porsche has an overwhelming load of options for it. They'll even de-badge it for you.

M2 won't be near a 60K base price as that is the base price for the M3 sedan... which IS indeed infinitely customizable..
I anticipate the M2 to likely be compared favorably with the Cayman GTS in reviews.. just as the 1M... which is exactly why the 1M has been a cult classic.
With a 46K base price.. It compared favorably to the 76K Cayman R.

PS.. Any kid on a street corner can debadge your car for you as well.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=12

Sorry sir. Fake is fake. If you like it you won already. It's bogus...period. If you are buying a focus. Fine but at the premium for these cars they should focus some of their attention on making an audible car just like the 1M. They did it before and could do it again. I've been auto crossing since 1985 but don't go throwing that around as qualifications to put someone's very valid opinion down. The fact is BMW is spending a lot of resources on fluffery and if they claim to be the ultimate driving machine then they should divert some of that time and effort to basic car-guy desires like a good sounding car inside and outside. Furthermore if they are going to follow the masses down the digital fakery road instead of staying true like they have done with RWD and offering manuals they should at least let you turn it off without disabling your entire stereo. ; )

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by nachob

Sorry sir. Fake is fake. If you like it you won already. It's bogus...period. If you are buying a focus. Fine but at the premium for these cars they should focus some of their attention on making an audible car just like the 1M. They did it before and could do it again. I've been auto crossing since 1985 but don't go throwing that around as qualifications to put someone's very valid opinion down. The fact is BMW is spending a lot of resources on fluffery and if they claim to be the ultimate driving machine then they should divert some of that time and effort to basic car-guy desires like a good sounding car inside and outside. Furthermore if they are going to follow the masses down the digital fakery road instead of staying true like they have done with RWD and offering manuals they should at least let you turn it off without disabling your entire stereo. ; )

? Not sure what you mean.... the 1M ISNT audible...

? not sure how it being Fake really makes a difference... it's a simple driver aid.... kinda like blind spot indicators...

Apparently since BMW added active sound... they apparently stopped developing the car as a good sounding car inside and outside?

? it is easily defeatable.. I gave TWO very inexpensive ways to get rid of it.. :-) Almost as cheap as Debadging!


Finally... let's discuss "valid " opinions...

I would bet that most people that complain about Active Sound have NOT driven a vehicle with it..... so how would their opinion be " VALID "?

Love ya bro...... just saying...

[W///]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I second that emotion! Just wandered over to the Porsche site for grins.. (and sticker shock!)

$52,600 base - Likely comparable in base price to the M2
$64,100 Cayman S
$75,200 Cayman GTS
$84,600 Cayman GT4


in comparison tests... the 1M was not pitted against the base Cayman ( $51 K base price for 2011 ) OR the Cayman S.. ($62K base price for 2011).
Nearly all of the comparison tests matched it with the Cayman R.. which is roughly equivalent to the Cayman GTS of today.






M2 won't be near a 60K base price as that is the base price for the M3 sedan... which IS indeed infinitely customizable..
I anticipate the M2 to likely be compared favorably with the Cayman GTS in reviews.. just as the 1M... which is exactly why the 1M has been a cult classic.
With a 46K base price.. It compared favorably to the 76K Cayman R.

PS.. Any kid on a street corner can debadge your car for you as well.

I've never been able to build a Cayman S for under $72k. And that's more or less only going with only performance options.

I also had a chance to buy a REALLY base Cayman (it was absolutely gorgeous though) and even that was $57k. It was metallic brown and sat on the lot for half a year.

Originally Posted by nachob

Sorry sir. Fake is fake. If you like it you won already. It's bogus...period. If you are buying a focus. Fine but at the premium for these cars they should focus some of their attention on making an audible car just like the 1M. They did it before and could do it again. I've been auto crossing since 1985 but don't go throwing that around as qualifications to put someone's very valid opinion down. The fact is BMW is spending a lot of resources on fluffery and if they claim to be the ultimate driving machine then they should divert some of that time and effort to basic car-guy desires like a good sounding car inside and outside. Furthermore if they are going to follow the masses down the digital fakery road instead of staying true like they have done with RWD and offering manuals they should at least let you turn it off without disabling your entire stereo. ; )

For the last time, you can code it off. It's been done plenty of times with so many models.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

? Not sure what you mean.... the 1M ISNT audible...

? not sure how it being Fake really makes a difference... it's a simple driver aid.... kinda like blind spot indicators...

I gave TWO very inexpensive ways to get rid of it.. :-)

So let's just leave it at different tastes then! I had no issue whatsoever hearing the 1M! The only issue I had was keeping the wheel spin down because I stayed with stock tire sizes. Before active sound. BMW made an effort to make the car sound good. Then a bunch of people complained about drone. So they figured if we run it through the stereo we can tune all that but it doesn't sound as good at least in M235i and if you pull the fuse it takes down the radio and sounds lame because they didn't do enough physical work on the intake and exhaust. So the real solution is offer it for guys like you that can't hear the car and want it. I am not the only none either. Car and driver also raises objections and before this generation I swore they were on bmws payroll. Finally, if no one makes an effort to raise objections nothing changes. The very 1M you drive is a result of guys like me complaining that the e90M3 had gotten too big and heavy. And our privilege to speak freely on here came from guys that complained about English colonial nonsense.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by nachob

So let's just leave it at different tastes then! I had no issue whatsoever hearing the 1M! The only issue I had was keeping the wheel spin down because I stayed with stock tire sizes. Before active sound. BMW made an effort to make the car sound good. Then a bunch of people complained about drone. So they figured if we run it through the stereo we can tune all that but it doesn't sound as good at least in M235i and if you pull the fuse it takes down the radio and sounds lame because they didn't do enough physical work on the intake and exhaust. So the real solution is offer it for guys like you that can't hear the car and want it. I am not the only none either. Car and driver also raises objections and before this generation I swore they were on bmws payroll. Finally, if no one makes an effort to raise objections nothing changes. The very 1M you drive is a result of guys like me complaining that the e90M3 had gotten too big and heavy. And our privilege to speak freely on here came from guys that complained about English colonial nonsense.

oh wow... I believe you TOTALLY have misunderstood what Active sound is for. I don't think it's in response to drone at all...
It's in response to the fact that the car is so quiet because of the turbos and all the sound deadening.. NO WONDER you are so wrapped up in hate for fake.

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

i own 3 cars with active sound and I don't know why everyone keeps bleating on about it. its totally unintrusive. its like waking up every day and complaining that the sky is blue.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by nachob

So let's just leave it at different tastes then! I had no issue whatsoever hearing the 1M! The only issue I had was keeping the wheel spin down because I stayed with stock tire sizes. Before active sound. BMW made an effort to make the car sound good. Then a bunch of people complained about drone. So they figured if we run it through the stereo we can tune all that but it doesn't sound as good at least in M235i and if you pull the fuse it takes down the radio and sounds lame because they didn't do enough physical work on the intake and exhaust. So the real solution is offer it for guys like you that can't hear the car and want it. I am not the only none either. Car and driver also raises objections and before this generation I swore they were on bmws payroll. Finally, if no one makes an effort to raise objections nothing changes. The very 1M you drive is a result of guys like me complaining that the e90M3 had gotten too big and heavy. And our privilege to speak freely on here came from guys that complained about English colonial nonsense.

You can code ASD off and you don't need to take out any fuse or lose the radio

[nachob]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

You can code ASD off and you don't need to take out any fuse or lose the radio

Cool, but that takes us back to the original post where the guy that got adjuster going said. Hope it sounds good without it. I agree. I hope it sounds good without it.