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      09-28-2017, 10:45 PM   #155
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So the smallest rwd based chassis M-car in the future...will be the huge M4? Which will most likely continue getting bigger.

Please BMW...make a new fixed roof Z4M!
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      09-28-2017, 10:56 PM   #156
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Are they doing this because it looks like the industry is moving towards phasing out the sedan body style in favor of the hatchbatch/gran coupe design?
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      09-29-2017, 06:35 AM   #157
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      09-29-2017, 07:06 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingwan View Post
Are they doing this because it looks like the industry is moving towards phasing out the sedan body style in favor of the hatchbatch/gran coupe design?
They are doing it to cover their bases. They already have a 1 Series Sedan, so with the addition of a 2 Series GC they can appeal to whatever the tastes are in a given market. There is also the 2 GT/AT, although those currently have an MPV-like form factor rather than the more car-like 3GT (soon to be 4GT) and 6GT of their big brothers. Obviously coupe-like sedans and hatchbacks are growing in popularity as you point out, but whether the traditional three box sedan will disappear completely remains to be seen.
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      09-29-2017, 07:36 AM   #159
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Are they doing this because it looks like the industry is moving towards phasing out the sedan body style in favor of the hatchbatch/gran coupe design?
They are doing this because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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      09-29-2017, 08:41 AM   #160
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      09-29-2017, 10:27 AM   #161
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      09-29-2017, 10:44 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
So the smallest rwd based chassis M-car in the future...will be the huge M4? Which will most likely continue getting bigger.

Please BMW...make a new fixed roof Z4M!
No, they're keeping the 2 series coupe and convertible in rear drive, including the M2. There just won't be a 4 door variant.
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      09-29-2017, 11:43 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i View Post
I wonder how this will effect RWD coupe 2 series value.

I also wonder how this will affect current 2 series owners. Will some move away from the 2 series just because they don't want to be associated with the cheap FWD?
Why would it affect 2 series values? Different car altogether for a different buyer, more enthusiast biased. And the next 2 coupe will still be RWD apparently!

I doubt very much if it will put current 2 owners off for the above reasons!! do buyers really think that way?? And besides, the 2 coupe will be the ONLY option for buyers wanting a RWD compact BMW hard top!!

I don't understand why they couldn't have based this car on the RWD coupe, after all, we can be sure it will have premium pricing!!!

Last edited by nozydog; 09-29-2017 at 11:49 AM..
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      09-29-2017, 11:54 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by TajoMan View Post
I guess there is no B58 engine in that car.

This actually confirms the next 2 series will be FWD.

They should just bring 140 xdrive to US.
Apparently not according to many 'in the know' members on this forum... not quite sure how they know though, because I'd have agreed with you on this!!
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      09-29-2017, 12:05 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
There is nothing wrong with a good FWD platform. Don't get your panties in a bunch, it's not like they're replacing a 4dr rwd car with a 4 door FWD car.

Don't buy a FWD car if you don't want one...
This... you RWD purists make i larf you really do! FWD (original) Ford Focus & Mondeo, VW Scirocco along with plenty of others are great to drive FWD cars (I've had all those named) It's a bit like listening to the anti EV brigade getting their knickers in a twist!! Nothing wrong with any of these concepts, if you don't like it, don't buy it... but you may just miss out!!
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      09-29-2017, 12:44 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
I bought my first BMW in 1995 (E36 325) because I was attracted to Porsches, and the then hot Mazda Rx7 Twin Turbo, but wanted four seats and a useable trunk. My purchase proved worthy on the street and the track where I progressed through DE events to become a track and skidpad instructor with my local chapter of the BMWCCA, harassing many in my student cohort over the years, including a 911 pilot. My 4 door E36 325, then my 4 door E36 M3, proved the perfect blend of track and DD utility. nimble and fast on the track and big enough to carry, but not travel, 4 passengers.

As my family has grown, my two kids fit in the back locally, though we travel in the family truckster (Honda Ody for now) for long trips. As they grow bigger, one of them can sit up front. The car is big enough without being too big, and it has the rear drive fun that makes it fun on the track and and on snowy winter days.

Why do we FAT americans need such large sedans that BMW can't do the math on a compact, 4 door RWD sedan? It used to be a very popular formula. Is it a function of our national obesity?

Actually.. I really think that in this case.. it's BMW that has tried to " design vehicles for fat Americans " rather than design vehicles that americans will purchase.

The decision to not produce a compact sedan at BMW is baffling to me.. and it is a decision that most other companies have proceeded to take away market share. What's most surprising is that the E30 M3 sedan and then the E36 M3 sedan literally DEFINED the euro compact sedan market through E46 guise. Then BMW came up with their own idea that everyone in America only wants a big sedan or SUV... and that hatchbacks, convertibles, and compact sedans aren't where they want to make any money. Since then..

Audi A3 has come in under the A4
Mercedes CLA has come in under the C class
Lexus IS has come under the ES
VW has placed the CC between the Jettta and Passat

while not really a competitor..... check out HONDA. They have enlarged the Accord and Civic... but also introduced Clarity sedan and the Honda Fit is their smallest model.

At the same time... BMW enlarged their 3 Series, 5 series and 7 series.. and ignored the fact that a 1 series sedan would have been great for the US. BMW stubbornly produced 1 series hatches in 3 and 5 door version for Euro markets.. but not the US.... late in the game providing a coupe only in deference to the US market.

Then.. BMW developed a 2 series replacement and STILL ignored what the competition was doing.. BMW AGAIN decided to produce a COUPE only for the 2 series.. while continuing to sell 1 series variants in 3 and 5 door guise in Europe only.. BMW lost the midsize European sales crown in the US that they have so coveted and protected....

BMW then decided that they could ONLY market a compact sedan in Asian markets... apparently because people are smaller there?

Finally.. while competitors have SNATCHED market share like a fat kid eating cake. BMW has finally realized... Hey.. we could be selling a 2 series sedan...

So... it seems to me that nearly every premium manufacturer has a lineup of compact, midsize and full size sedans EXCEPT BMW.. ( add Volvo and infiniti to this list.. but they don't make small cars ANYWHERE).

As far as I am concerned.. there is little blame on fat americans.. and a lot of blame to be placed at the feet of BMW AG and NA.
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 09-29-2017 at 01:03 PM..
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      09-29-2017, 01:38 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
Please BMW...make a new fixed roof Z4M!
It's coming. In the form of the new Supra.
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      09-29-2017, 03:41 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
It's coming. In the form of the new Supra.


That is a good one. Cheers to you.
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      09-29-2017, 07:14 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
It's coming. In the form of the new Supra.
I wouldn't by a Toyota if you plan to track it. They don't stand behind their product. The engine in a friend's FR-S got trashed from a broken valve spring The spring broke at 3500 RPM but, since it happened on the track, Toyota rejected the warranty repair.

I'd like a hard-top Z4 myself and I'd buy the Supra to get that if it weren't for my friend's experience.
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      09-29-2017, 09:04 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Actually.. I really think that in this case.. it's BMW that has tried to " design vehicles for fat Americans " rather than design vehicles that americans will purchase.

The decision to not produce a compact sedan at BMW is baffling to me.. and it is a decision that most other companies have proceeded to take away market share. What's most surprising is that the E30 M3 sedan and then the E36 M3 sedan literally DEFINED the euro compact sedan market through E46 guise. Then BMW came up with their own idea that everyone in America only wants a big sedan or SUV... and that hatchbacks, convertibles, and compact sedans aren't where they want to make any money. Since then..

Audi A3 has come in under the A4
Mercedes CLA has come in under the C class
Lexus IS has come under the ES
VW has placed the CC between the Jettta and Passat

while not really a competitor..... check out HONDA. They have enlarged the Accord and Civic... but also introduced Clarity sedan and the Honda Fit is their smallest model.

At the same time... BMW enlarged their 3 Series, 5 series and 7 series.. and ignored the fact that a 1 series sedan would have been great for the US. BMW stubbornly produced 1 series hatches in 3 and 5 door version for Euro markets.. but not the US.... late in the game providing a coupe only in deference to the US market.

Then.. BMW developed a 2 series replacement and STILL ignored what the competition was doing.. BMW AGAIN decided to produce a COUPE only for the 2 series.. while continuing to sell 1 series variants in 3 and 5 door guise in Europe only.. BMW lost the midsize European sales crown in the US that they have so coveted and protected....

BMW then decided that they could ONLY market a compact sedan in Asian markets... apparently because people are smaller there?

Finally.. while competitors have SNATCHED market share like a fat kid eating cake. BMW has finally realized... Hey.. we could be selling a 2 series sedan...

So... it seems to me that nearly every premium manufacturer has a lineup of compact, midsize and full size sedans EXCEPT BMW.. ( add Volvo and infiniti to this list.. but they don't make small cars ANYWHERE).

As far as I am concerned.. there is little blame on fat americans.. and a lot of blame to be placed at the feet of BMW AG and NA.
Didn't the American manufacturers start this movement in the 90s by hiding behind different regulations for trucks to build cheap vehicles? That drove American taste for vehicles that used to be reserved for farms and construction sites. We've gotten into a height and weight arms race. I'm glad my wife is looking forward to a V90 once we close on our house.
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      09-29-2017, 11:08 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Actually.. I really think that in this case.. it's BMW that has tried to " design vehicles for fat Americans " rather than design vehicles that americans will purchase.

The decision to not produce a compact sedan at BMW is baffling to me.. and it is a decision that most other companies have proceeded to take away market share. What's most surprising is that the E30 M3 sedan and then the E36 M3 sedan literally DEFINED the euro compact sedan market through E46 guise. Then BMW came up with their own idea that everyone in America only wants a big sedan or SUV... and that hatchbacks, convertibles, and compact sedans aren't where they want to make any money. Since then..

Audi A3 has come in under the A4
Mercedes CLA has come in under the C class
Lexus IS has come under the ES
VW has placed the CC between the Jettta and Passat

while not really a competitor..... check out HONDA. They have enlarged the Accord and Civic... but also introduced Clarity sedan and the Honda Fit is their smallest model.

At the same time... BMW enlarged their 3 Series, 5 series and 7 series.. and ignored the fact that a 1 series sedan would have been great for the US. BMW stubbornly produced 1 series hatches in 3 and 5 door version for Euro markets.. but not the US.... late in the game providing a coupe only in deference to the US market.

Then.. BMW developed a 2 series replacement and STILL ignored what the competition was doing.. BMW AGAIN decided to produce a COUPE only for the 2 series.. while continuing to sell 1 series variants in 3 and 5 door guise in Europe only.. BMW lost the midsize European sales crown in the US that they have so coveted and protected....

BMW then decided that they could ONLY market a compact sedan in Asian markets... apparently because people are smaller there?

Finally.. while competitors have SNATCHED market share like a fat kid eating cake. BMW has finally realized... Hey.. we could be selling a 2 series sedan...

So... it seems to me that nearly every premium manufacturer has a lineup of compact, midsize and full size sedans EXCEPT BMW.. ( add Volvo and infiniti to this list.. but they don't make small cars ANYWHERE).

As far as I am concerned.. there is little blame on fat americans.. and a lot of blame to be placed at the feet of BMW AG and NA.
Didn't the American manufacturers start this movement in the 90s by hiding behind different regulations for trucks to build cheap vehicles? That drove American taste for vehicles that used to be reserved for farms and construction sites. We've gotten into a height and weight arms race. I'm glad my wife is looking forward to a V90 once we close on our house.
Yep. And BMW has caught on. They plan to make a lot more profit making $75,000 M suvs than $75,000 M cars ..

XC90.. BMW has refused to go big til now.

XC40 cute ute is out . It fits the marque.

BMW has manufactured just 3,000 M2 in two model years plus. I bet they crank out that many X3Ms in two months.

Get into that house ASAP.. hard to find homes in midprice ranges anymore. The flippers are turning them all faster than homeowners can get to them.
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      09-29-2017, 11:36 PM   #172
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2 series grand coupe? Just a smushed and more cramped 3 series. Meh. 2 is too small for. Grand coupe imo.
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      09-30-2017, 07:01 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
So the smallest rwd based chassis M-car in the future...will be the huge M4? Which will most likely continue getting bigger.

Please BMW...make a new fixed roof Z4M!
No, they're keeping the 2 series coupe and convertible in rear drive, including the M2. There just won't be a 4 door variant.
If that's the case , the FAIL on a 2er sedan will continue into three generations of 1/2 series in the US. WOW.
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      09-30-2017, 07:56 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
If that's the case , the FAIL on a 2er sedan will continue into three generations of 1/2 series in the US. WOW.
Just so it’s clear, what he meant was that there won’t be a 4-door variant based on the RWD 2 Series coupe/convertible. Clearly, a four (or potentially five) door variant will indeed exist and will be coming to the US - that’s the entire point of this thread. It’s just that - as discussed in great detail earlier - it will be built on UKL and thus FWD/AWD, rather than built on CLAR with RWD/AWD (as the coupe/convertible will be).

Given this, they actually are finally addressing the hole in the lineup that you rightfully point out. I fully agree with you that it has been a ridiculous omission. Furthermore, I, too, would have preferred RWD, not least because going with the UKL platform will preclude an M model, at least for this generation. So, if there is a fail, it is that - no M2 GC, so still no RS3 and CLA45/A45 competitor.
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      09-30-2017, 10:30 AM   #175
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I always thought my m235i would make a nice little four door. This looks good, but on a fwd platform? Even with x drive, what would the ///M driving dynamics be like? M235i or Mini Cooper clubman???
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      09-30-2017, 11:22 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nozydog View Post
This... you RWD purists make i larf you really do! FWD (original) Ford Focus & Mondeo, VW Scirocco along with plenty of others are great to drive FWD cars (I've had all those named) It's a bit like listening to the anti EV brigade getting their knickers in a twist!! Nothing wrong with any of these concepts, if you don't like it, don't buy it... but you may just miss out!!
But in the end, the best driving FWD car is still no match for the best driving RWD car. Laugh all you want but the joke is on you.
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