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      09-28-2017, 01:33 PM   #133
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      09-28-2017, 01:34 PM   #134
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      09-28-2017, 01:43 PM   #135
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The new one is not a 235i.

Look at any 25i/28i UKL BMW - they all have split tailpipes.
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      09-28-2017, 01:48 PM   #136
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It was nice of you to stack them with the drive wheels aligned.
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      09-28-2017, 01:58 PM   #137
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This car makes me sad. It was bad enough that the next gen 1 series is turning to FWD, but I do get why it would make financial sense to make this move, as it theoretically would enable the car to be more practical and cheaper to build (not necessarily characteristics that people associate with BMW, but still).

But since the 2er will remain RWD, it would make perfect sense for the 2er GC to be RWD as well, as even from the product standpoint, someone who chooses a "4-door coupe" is usually more interested in something more sporty and upscale. What I'm saying is the customer of the 2er GC wouldn't mind a little less practicality and premium price, in exchange for better driving dynamics and performance.

I'm not saying that FWD cars are inherently bad, mind you, but they are by default inferior to RWD when it comes to dynamics and balance, and the UKL platform also can't fit anything larger than a 4-cil engine. As much as they nail the tuning of the chassis and the engine in the 2er GC, it simply does not have the same potential as it would if it remained RWD with a 6-cil engine.

More than that though, it really is the death of the compact sports sedan, as the next 3 series will be even larger than the already big F30. So anyone who wants something smaller will necessarily have to buy an fwd based 4 cil turbo, as that's what all cars in this category have become.

The 3 big German companies are all boring nowadays, and they all make the exact same cars, specs sheet wise. I guess now people will just choose between Audi, BMW or Mercedes based on how much they like their multimedia systems...
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      09-28-2017, 02:09 PM   #138
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I think this car with AWD will sell well in the US market. Maybe not to this group of enthusiasts, but I could see the 2GC replacing the recent middle class college grad?s Honda Civic starter car. BMW knows there is a market for the Roundel by young buyers who?s parents drive BMW but thy really can?t afford the 3 series plus at this time. I think that is BMW?s target market. They want to lure millennials into the brand early and keep them as they progress up the BMW numeric series ladder.

As for the naming convention, why not call this a 1 series in the US? There are no cars in the 1 series on this side of the pond? Plus the next series hatches are supposed to use the same UKL platform. I see this 2GC really as a scoped down 3 series which means the 1 series is a good fit in my opinion. I always thought the odd number series were supposed to be practical while the even numbers were to show off the sporty side of BMW.
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      09-28-2017, 02:10 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac View Post
FWD BMWs and AWD FWD-based BMWs must burn in hell. Sorry.
But the US market, which is a big one, has been brainwashed that an AWD truck is necessary to be safe. "AWD has superior handling and control in bad weather, and a truck gives you better visibility around that *other* guy's truck. Plus you need several thousand Lbs/Kilos around you for the inevitable collision." In the US, we reinforce this with nominal drivers ed. My trips to Europe have usually involved driving a tiny hatchback that was deemed a "full sized" car by the rental agency. I don't recall seeing as many SAVs overseas, but the truck lobby probably isn't as powerful there as it was here to drive the preference.

Last edited by marcva; 09-28-2017 at 02:13 PM.. Reason: typos
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      09-28-2017, 02:19 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianX View Post
I think this car with AWD will sell well in the US market. Maybe not to this group of enthusiasts, but I could see the 2GC replacing the recent middle class college grad?s Honda Civic starter car. BMW knows there is a market for the Roundel by young buyers who?s parents drive BMW but thy really can?t afford the 3 series plus at this time. I think that is BMW?s target market. They want to lure millennials into the brand early and keep them as they progress up the BMW numeric series ladder.

As for the naming convention, why not call this a 1 series in the US? There are no cars in the 1 series on this side of the pond? Plus the next series hatches are supposed to use the same UKL platform. I see this 2GC really as a scoped down 3 series which means the 1 series is a good fit in my opinion. I always thought the odd number series were supposed to be practical while the even numbers were to show off the sporty side of BMW.
I think you kind of hit it. Sounds like it will be a very nice car "for what it is" and attract a lot of buyers. Just not what we were hoping for, at least those of us who wanted a sub-$50k RWD architecture sport "sedan." In essence everything we love about the current F22 with a little more practicality.
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      09-28-2017, 02:19 PM   #141
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It does amaze me how often I see xi BMW sedans and 4Matic Mercedes here in Texas. Why dumb down your car for the two days a year it will barely help? I get adding awd to fwd cars, but down here, just stick to rwd.
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      09-28-2017, 02:23 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
The new one is not a 235i.

Look at any 25i/28i UKL BMW - they all have split tailpipes.
Good point
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      09-28-2017, 03:03 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
The new one is not a 235i.

Look at any 25i/28i UKL BMW - they all have split tailpipes.
Good catch. I've spent so little time looking at these vehicles, I hadn't even realized that. Here is a 125i rear end showing the dual exhaust on that car.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsidianX View Post
As for the naming convention, why not call this a 1 series in the US?
Calling it a 1 Series would just confuse things I think. Also, that would close the door on bringing a 1 Series Sedan here, which they may want to preserve the ability to do in a future generation. After all, Mercedes is adding an A Class sedan to their next generation small car lineup, and it is reported to be heading to the US. So they will have both the CLA and the A sedan in our market.

Quote:
I always thought the odd number series were supposed to be practical while the even numbers were to show off the sporty side of BMW.
Right, but as with the existing 4GC, outgoing 6GC, and upcoming 8GC, the "four (or five) door coupes" get an even number.
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      09-28-2017, 03:32 PM   #144
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      09-28-2017, 03:37 PM   #145
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This will sell well, almost without a doubt
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      09-28-2017, 04:49 PM   #146
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New era M Performance models are identified with their rectangular exhausts.
This is either the 225i/228i or equivalent diesel?
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      09-28-2017, 05:18 PM   #147
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Looks about as ugly as the Mercedes CLA. The FWD side effects...


They all look like jacked up short body builders. Short legs and arms, chunky torso. Wierd proportions in other words. The car is not alone, Audi A3 is the same mould but it looks a bit better as it is more conventional. Still, it is not a small car - I had the A3 which this 2...i GC will look like and it took space that wasnt huge amount smaller then the wagon i have... and the wagon is bloody massive. So i dunno, you have still small cramped interior, and lots of safety mean funny looking nose and tiny wheels as a result in an oversized package. Just not ok but lets see how the final car will appear.
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      09-28-2017, 07:04 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Tallest View Post


They all look like jacked up short body builders. Short legs and arms, chunky torso. Wierd proportions in other words.

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      09-28-2017, 07:33 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac View Post
FWD BMWs and AWD FWD-based BMWs must burn in hell. Sorry.
you will probably burn in hell before the cars do..
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      09-28-2017, 08:14 PM   #150
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      09-28-2017, 08:50 PM   #151
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Well, more gran coupes until they are exclusive no more!! Doesn’t that kind of take the appeal away? I mean this is like a cheaper version of a designer handbag, essentially.

Aaaaand it’s FWD you say? I’m sold!!!!
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      09-28-2017, 08:53 PM   #152
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I always thought the 2 series should have a shooting brake design anyways. Bah humbug!!!


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      09-28-2017, 09:27 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
I think you kind of hit it. Sounds like it will be a very nice car "for what it is" and attract a lot of buyers. Just not what we were hoping for, at least those of us who wanted a sub-$50k RWD architecture sport "sedan." In essence everything we love about the current F22 with a little more practicality.
I bought my first BMW in 1995 (E36 325) because I was attracted to Porsches, and the then hot Mazda Rx7 Twin Turbo, but wanted four seats and a useable trunk. My purchase proved worthy on the street and the track where I progressed through DE events to become a track and skidpad instructor with my local chapter of the BMWCCA, harassing many in my student cohort over the years, including a 911 pilot. My 4 door E36 325, then my 4 door E36 M3, proved the perfect blend of track and DD utility. nimble and fast on the track and big enough to carry, but not travel, 4 passengers.

As my family has grown, my two kids fit in the back locally, though we travel in the family truckster (Honda Ody for now) for long trips. As they grow bigger, one of them can sit up front. The car is big enough without being too big, and it has the rear drive fun that makes it fun on the track and and on snowy winter days.

Why do we FAT americans need such large sedans that BMW can't do the math on a compact, 4 door RWD sedan? It used to be a very popular formula. Is it a function of our national obesity?
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      09-28-2017, 10:01 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
I always thought the 2 series should have a shooting brake design anyways. Bah humbug!!!

.
This render makes me recall that a few years back, possibly before the 2 Series was even unveiled, Scott reported that BMW was considering a new vehicle concept within the 2er range named Gran Sport Tourer, a sort of sporty hatchback shooting brake mix with strong hints of Hyundai Veloster and its asymetrical door layout (one door on the driver's side, two doors on the passenger side). I'm actually glad the project didn't come to fruition
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