Review or raise

[Tommy-G]

It's likely been discussed but maybe before my time here.

My industry (like many) is notorious for not giving reviews, raises or cost of living adjustments unless you threaten to quit.

I'm coming up on my 5th year with the company and dont ever have plans of leaving regardless of the outcome.
I know my boss will give me a raise but I think I would rather ask for a review instead of flat out for a raise.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Esteban]

Sounds like the appropriate thing to do. Hopefully with a positive review a raise would be the result.

[plutnicki]

You have to be your own advocate. If you feel you deserve a raise, you should absolutely ask for one, even more if it's been 5 years and if your company doesn't have a formal process for reviews and salary actions.

Any manager worth the title should be giving performance feedback to his team regularly, and again, if you ask for it, you should get it...

I see no reason why you shouldn't ask for both.

The catch is, if you ask for the review first and it's not good, asking for the raise might not go as well now that there's a document covering your performance. Doesn't sound like you're worried about being an average or below performer so maybe that's not a concern.

Always watch out for yourself in any job. 12k people at google learned that lesson recently, at the end of the day, in almost any company, you are just a number....

[JMcLellan]

Onesie is on point for doing research and seeing what others are making with similar roles in similar companies. Knowing where your pay lands in the grand scheme would be very helpful. Also, the comment on showing how your work helped to generate more revenue or save dollars is big.

From there you create a business case (which is your own self review) consisting of a brag sheet of your contributions and how those helped to deliver on organizational goals, cost savings, quality improvements, etc. Then show what you are planning to do in the near term to develop, learn new skills, all in all to keep helping the company achieve great things. This also opens the door to coming back to a more formal conversation in the future and subsequent performance reviews where you can continue to showcase what you have been doing.

I recommend stating what you want for a raise vs just generally asking for more. Giving your manager a number to react to is better than expecting them to try to read your mind on what you expect.

My two cents

[NYG]

No review.

Ask for a raise - they'll have to say yes at the very least to offset inflation and cost of living.

[spazzyfry123]

Come prepared with a self evaluation and work from there.

[erickonphoenix]

You're in an unstructured work environment. I've been in those and would have to set meetings with a superior to discuss it. Certainly come prepared with examples of good performance goals. i'd say expect one of three answers,

1. 'it's not in the budget this year', start job shopping.
2. 'Lets see some improvement on your bottom line then we'll talk next year', Really look where you can improve.
3. 'sure, you're overdue what are you looking for?' Problem solved

One thing you could encourage is implementing a review process.

My company uses a scoring system for our review. We have a score 1 - 5 on Productivity, Engagement, Culture, Planning and Security. If you get 4 or higher you are eligible for a 3 percent raise. I believe if you score 5 in every category it's automatic.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by erickonphoenix

You're in an unstructured work environment. I've been in those and would have to set meetings with a superior to discuss it. Certainly come prepared with examples of good performance goals. i'd say expect one of three answers,

1. 'it's not in the budget this year', start job shopping.
2. 'Lets see some improvement on your bottom line then we'll talk next year', Really look where you can improve.
3. 'sure, you're overdue what are you looking for?' Problem solved

One thing you could encourage is implementing a review process.

My company uses a scoring system for our review. We have a score 1 - 5 on Productivity, Engagement, Culture, Planning and Security. If you get 4 or higher you are eligible for a 3 percent raise. I believe if you score 5 in every category it's automatic.

my old company used a fake review system like that as well...

if you get a 5 auto promo (except no one actually ever got a 5)
if you got a 4 you were highly promotable (very very rare and there has to be a position in place for this to happen - which there never really was)
3 was what 90% of the company got lol
2 was a few stragglers
1 was pretty much waiting to get fired

but here is the deal, the same fake system was used for everyone... sales, finance, marketing etc... except some roles were far broader and the teams were far larger so there by default was more opportunity to promote

to say the least, after 3 years of hard work, I just left lol... which should have been done a long time ago

all those review systems are fake and are based on promotability thats derived from open positions and / or salary bands... that is unless you really really suck at your job and get a 1

[2000cs]

Review systems are to protect the company when an employee is terminated for poor performance, or files a discrimination complaint related to promotions, pay, etc. Documented history, lack of progress, etc. It’s all in the file.

I’d rather have a frank discussion with an employee than go through all the process for a formal rating.

[Tommy-G]

So a little more detail. I am a manager and review my staff yearly but our industry doesn’t always lend to raises for the production employees.
Only my supervisor is above me at our location so promotion is not something I am interested in but the past 5 years I have had solid increases in sales and gross profit. I also am consulting and helping another location of ours part time but I’m not looking for any compensation regarding that, just trying to get that shop back on top. Maybe a real nice dinner or something but that’s all.

I’m all over the page here but 60% of my income is commission so essentially I’m looking for another segment to be commission based which I do not get paid on right now (parts sales) so I don’t see any problem but I would like more of a real review than a “hey great month, here’s your commission pay”

[billnchristy]

I'm really bad at this too, as evidenced by my thread about my promotion. It's easy to find jobs paying more but it's also easy to find them paying less. If you're happy where you are and living ok, put it into perspective, unless it's a major % increase you gain all of a six pack to an ok meal for 2 on a weekly basis. It obviously adds up over time but since you're somewhere that it doesn't happen often what is 2-5% really going to do to your bottom line?

But, like I said, I'm really bad at this. Almost 10 years in the Navy where it just happened automatically kind of did that and I'm also not a salesman, not even for myself.

But to answer the question, review yourself and bring it and ask for a raise. If he can't argue with your review then why would he argue the raise, if he has criticism of your self-evaluation, ask for his side and meet in the middle and present a plan to fix those shortcomings and ask if you can revisit the topic in a few months.

[Tommy-G]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

I'm really bad at this too, as evidenced by my thread about my promotion. It's easy to find jobs paying more but it's also easy to find them paying less. If you're happy where you are and living ok, put it into perspective, unless it's a major % increase you gain all of a six pack to an ok meal for 2 on a weekly basis. It obviously adds up over time but since you're somewhere that it doesn't happen often what is 2-5% really going to do to your bottom line?

But, like I said, I'm really bad at this. Almost 10 years in the Navy where it just happened automatically kind of did that and I'm also not a salesman, not even for myself.

But to answer the question, review yourself and bring it and ask for a raise. If he can't argue with your review then why would he argue the raise, if he has criticism of your self-evaluation, ask for his side and meet in the middle and present a plan to fix those shortcomings and ask if you can revisit the topic in a few months.

I think my problem is when my guys come to me they say "hey, boss I need a raise" and I really feel like its so cliche and people feel entitled just because another year went by.

I'm hoping by not being so robotic about it that it may be viewed differently and more beneficial to me. As mentioned, even if I got nothing I wouldnt leave but depending on percentages it could be substantial ($30-40k) additional if he agrees with my sales pitch

[exE36M3]

Good questions and replies here... from a management point of view (Me - Director level).

It sounds like your bases are covered:
1. Employees are happy and paid OK
2. Numbers are being met
3. You seem reliable and competent
4. Not creepy ambitious - as in I'll do more but I want something in return versus I want the company to succeed and as it does, I would like to move up with it.

IF you have a good relationship with your boss, ask for a review and based on the input, ask for a raise and maybe talk about the future. Like "I'm pretty happy here and would appreciate a raise. But I am also thinking I'd like to do more for the company and am open for more responsibility and opportunities."
If your reputation is solid, I think they'll make a path for you.

As much as everyone *WANTS* to be a manager, generally people are bad at it. It's either they are bad with people, bad with the numbers, bad at communication (up and down), bad at getting stuff done, bad at initiative, bad at being reliable. BUT if you have all those pillars solid on your side, you may be amazed how much people want you to move up. Reputation is powerful.

(I just escaped a 15% headcount cut at my tech company because I had all 6 of those traits covered and *known*up to the CEO level.)

I think you'll do well from what you describe.

[TboneS54]

Maybe already mentioned, but look at the fiscal health of the company. Have they been well profitable lately? Inflation is obvious, so you have good argument from the view point.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

As much as everyone *WANTS* to be a manager,

NOPE, no EVERYONE. I want to stay in the dirty trenches of IT, not pushing papers/people around. And as you further mentioned, I know I'm not good at those other pillars. Yet, here I am, rising to the level of my incompetence . . .

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

NOPE, no EVERYONE. I want to stay in the dirty trenches of IT, not pushing papers/people around. And as you further mentioned, I know I'm not good at those other pillars. Yet, here I am, rising to the level of my incompetence . . .

Good ole Peter's Principle

[Tommy-G]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

NOPE, no EVERYONE. I want to stay in the dirty trenches of IT, not pushing papers/people around. And as you further mentioned, I know I'm not good at those other pillars. Yet, here I am, rising to the level of my incompetence . . .

I love when my employees come in and say "I wouldnt take your job for all the money...." I see how hard it is and what you deal with.
Gives me a little warm and fuzzy inside

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Tommy-G

I love when my employees come in and say "I wouldnt take your job for all the money...."

Yes, indeed.

[Tommy-G]

**So, I'm sure everyone has been sitting around with bated breath**

Yesterday was my 5 year anniversary here and I had a meeting with my boss on unrelated items. At the end of our talk I explained it was the best 5 years I have had with one company and I hope for another 15 yrs. I asked if he had the time, I would love to be reviewed sometime this year.
He shot me a weird look and said "you want a review? Here it is".....he drew an A+ on a piece of paper and slid it across the table.

He then proceeded to tell me I was the best bodyshop manager he ever had and how I make his job easy. He then proceeded to say that my play plan was already being reviewed by the executive team and I should know something soon.

I went on to explain how it bothers me when employees come to me on their anniversary and feel entitled to a raise just b/c it was another year of service. He understood and said to relax....everything is in the works already and my services haven't gone unnoticed.

I guess I could have gone in wearing a monkey costume and gotten the same reaction and reply but I wanted to try to be serious and professional.

Thanks for playing

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Tommy-G

**So, I'm sure everyone has been sitting around with bated breath**

Yesterday was my 5 year anniversary here and I had a meeting with my boss on unrelated items. At the end of our talk I explained it was the best 5 years I have had with one company and I hope for another 15 yrs. I asked if he had the time, I would love to be reviewed sometime this year.
He shot me a weird look and said "you want a review? Here it is".....he drew an A+ on a piece of paper and slid it across the table.

He then proceeded to tell me I was the best bodyshop manager he ever had and how I make his job easy. He then proceeded to say that my play plan was already being reviewed by the executive team and I should know something soon.

I went on to explain how it bothers me when employees come to me on their anniversary and feel entitled to a raise just b/c it was another year of service. He understood and said to relax....everything is in the works already and my services haven't gone unnoticed.

I guess I could have gone in wearing a monkey costume and gotten the same reaction and reply but I wanted to try to be serious and professional.

Thanks for playing

Well that sounds good, Tommy. Let us know the outcome.

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Tommy-G

**So, I'm sure everyone has been sitting around with bated breath**

Yesterday was my 5 year anniversary here and I had a meeting with my boss on unrelated items. At the end of our talk I explained it was the best 5 years I have had with one company and I hope for another 15 yrs. I asked if he had the time, I would love to be reviewed sometime this year.
He shot me a weird look and said "you want a review? Here it is".....he drew an A+ on a piece of paper and slid it across the table.

He then proceeded to tell me I was the best bodyshop manager he ever had and how I make his job easy. He then proceeded to say that my play plan was already being reviewed by the executive team and I should know something soon.

I went on to explain how it bothers me when employees come to me on their anniversary and feel entitled to a raise just b/c it was another year of service. He understood and said to relax....everything is in the works already and my services haven't gone unnoticed.

I guess I could have gone in wearing a monkey costume and gotten the same reaction and reply but I wanted to try to be serious and professional.

Thanks for playing

I still hope a crocodile sneaks up and bites your butt when you aren't looking one of these days for all the talk and pictures of how warm and sunny it is where you are (especially bitter right now because I'm in winter), but I'm quite pleased to hear you have something good coming down the pipeline and that they've noticed your efforts without you having to say something.

On an unrelated note, I'm about to be equally bitter about my SIL and her husband moving from Alberta to Florida this year. Now they are also going to be enjoying the nice warm climate. I take some comfort in the fact that they also will have to deal with crocs/alligators and awful snakes that I will not have to deal with. They are moving probably to Lakeland area and operate some airbnbs out of clearwater area, maybe Orlando too.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

I take some comfort in the fact that they also will have to deal with crocs/alligators and awful snakes

None of those in Cali